Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

JOLLY

Super Simonologist
My Charvel San Dimas guitars sound great as is, but sometimes I wonder if adding a sustain block could just push them a little over the edge and make them better. I was wondering from those of you that have installed the sustain blocks....Was it worth it? Could you tell a noticeable difference? Would you do it again? Which material did you use?

I've been reading up on these for a few months now, and I'm not really sure how I feel. First off, I'm really into anything that will give me even more resonance. It's not that I have a problem or think my Charvels sound thin or anything, but I figure if I can make them sound better, then why not. Second, I use my Floyds quite a bit on those guitars. I do not like blocked tremolos. I love to dive bomb, hit harmonics, and pull up a lot on the Floyds. I reiterate, I like to pull up a lot with my Floyds. How much of a hindrance will that be on me doing pullups? I love pulling up 3-4 steps or so.

If there is an impeding problem with installing a sustain block for me and my pullups, I have no problem getting out a dremel and routing out some of the wood. Have any of you ever done this?
Which of the sustain blocks do you have experience with? My guess is most of you have only tried the brass ones. No matter which I get, I would probably go with the L type. However, I think only a couple of the sustain blocks of the different materials come in the L type configuration.

Soooooooo;


Copper:
Soaring highs, nut crushing lows and scooped mids!

Brass:
it is notorious for increasing warmth and clarity simultaneously, a rare combination. While greatly strengthening chord clarity and beefing up individual notes, it also greatly improves resonance, especially in the midrange of the instrument.


Tungsten:
When it comes to sustain, the single most important property of a metal is density followed by hardness. Tungsten is over 4 times denser than titanium and more than twice as dense as brass. To equal the mass of our tungsten sustain block, you would need a titanium block 4 times the size and a brass block double the dimensions of our tungsten block. The tungsten sustain block, every note will be brighter with a noticeable increase in clarity and sustain.

Granite/Stone:
These patented blocks are made of granite, and are designed to enhance and strengthen the sound of your tremolo-equipped instrument across the entire audio spectrum. Granite, when quarried in its natural state, is not only of an ideal density for the purpose of sustain, but also has a crystalline atomic structure which is ideal for sonic transference—it requires no factory processing or dilution, and the natural change in sound, upon installation, is so drastic that signal loss from the guitar to the amplifier will be decreased by at least 30%. That doesn't really tell me anything about the tone.

Titanium:
absorbs virtually no sound at all. This block is absolutely unmatched in resonance and clarity, ideal natural frequency and a unique ability to transfer sound energy seamlessly-- this is the upgrade of upgrades.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I don't know about how specific the nuances of each different material is for a sustain block... that sounds like a bit of cork sniffery to me (key phrase in that sentence being "don't know" though). I will confirm that a sustain block and saddle of upgraded mass/coupling to other parts of the guitar definitely boosts sustain and fattens up single notes from my experiences. It impacts the cleans the most IMO, gives a more full bodied voicing. I've personally heard all of these benefits when using upgraded trem units with these features designed into them compared to standard original floyds or vintage bridges, so not specifically with a floyed big block *yet*. However I totally plan on picking one up as I can hear the tonal improvements in other bridges. Not sure about the trem routing dimensions for those specific guitars.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

It impacts the cleans the most IMO, gives a more full bodied voicing.

I agree, Halen. I've watched videos of before and after, and I noticed the difference the most on clean settings/channels. However, I figure that if it makes a difference on the cleans then it must make a difference on distorted tones as well, but I just cannot really hear the differences on the video as opposed to if I could in person.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I agree, Halen. I've watched videos of before and after, and I noticed the difference the most on clean settings/channels. However, I figure that if it makes a difference on the cleans then it must make a difference on distorted tones as well, but I just cannot really hear the differences on the video as opposed to if I could in person.

Differences are there with distortion too, basically just added sustain (probably more than you're thinking, it's amazing) and slightly fatter single note definition to my ear. :bigthumb: I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you do upgrade
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I agree, Halen. I've watched videos of before and after, and I noticed the difference the most on clean settings/channels. However, I figure that if it makes a difference on the cleans then it must make a difference on distorted tones as well, but I just cannot really hear the differences on the video as opposed to if I could in person.
There's a video with Paul from GW that I think actually shows off the difference pretty well. It's exactly what I heard on my orange Strat when I replaced the block of the OFR with a Floyd Rose-branded big block.

Acoustically the guitar became louder and fatter, which translated well to distorted tones. I'm a happy customer.



Let me tell you this, though... Look on eBay for the Floyd Rose branded blocks. You can usually find them for less than the FU-Tone blocks and they're basically the same thing.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I upgraded my ibanez Edge III trem with a FU Tone brass block in a Xiphos. Sustain was improved and I experienced what I thought was a slight increase in the mids. It sounds dumb, but the guitar just sounded more meaty when the gain was cranked up. I wish I would have recorded samples before and after the mod. In any case, it was money well spent in my opinion, since it improved the tone of the guitar, and was less expensive than replacing the whole trem. I did not notice changes to the range of motion with the upgrade. However, a Dremel, a light hand, and some nail polish to seal the wound would certainly allow you to make the clearance you need.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I know there are "strong" opinions on both sides regarding validity of the addition of a Big Brass Block (BBB) to both OFR and Ibanez Edge Tremolos, but, IMHO, I've noticed and heard an improvement in sustain and tone with every guitar that I've had a BBB Upgrade made and, honestly, there have been quite a few. ;)
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I haven't heard a floyd guitar that didn't sound better with a big block, but it's conceivable. I tried one of those KGC brass strat trem blocks in a Heartfield I used to have with an El Diablo pickup in it. The brass block made it so much warmer and dulled the attack so much vs the stock steel block that I would've had to change to a brighter pickup if I were going to keep it that way. I've heard people have similar issues with Ibanez Edge trems and brass blocks. With an OFR though, I can pretty much guarantee you'll love it.

As for range, it all depends on the trem cavity. You could go with a shorter block and in some cases that might get you more room, but it might defeat the purpose too. Only way to know is to try one, so I'd buy one block and see what you think.

Also, the floyd branded blocks don't have the spring holes offset, they're in the center. I had to change the springs I was using in a guitar because the ends wouldn't reach. I buy from this guy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Floyd-rose-...393?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a364e091 . He makes blocks for lots of different trems, is cheaper and just as good, and he drills the holes offset so they sit just like they did in the stock block.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I haven't heard a floyd guitar that didn't sound better with a big block, but it's conceivable. I tried one of those KGC brass strat trem blocks in a Heartfield I used to have with an El Diablo pickup in it. The brass block made it so much warmer and dulled the attack so much vs the stock steel block that I would've had to change to a brighter pickup if I were going to keep it that way. I've heard people have similar issues with Ibanez Edge trems and brass blocks. With an OFR though, I can pretty much guarantee you'll love it.

As for range, it all depends on the trem cavity. You could go with a shorter block and in some cases that might get you more room, but it might defeat the purpose too. Only way to know is to try one, so I'd buy one block and see what you think.

Also, the floyd branded blocks don't have the spring holes offset, they're in the center. I had to change the springs I was using in a guitar because the ends wouldn't reach. I buy from this guy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Floyd-rose-...393?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a364e091 . He makes blocks for lots of different trems, is cheaper and just as good, and he drills the holes offset so they sit just like they did in the stock block.

I don't remember having any issues with springs, FWIW. I'll see what happens with this new FR block I've got coming tomorrow.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

great link, thanks. the prices on fu tone and the floyd site seem a little jacked up :rant:
Pssst... Floyd site is full MSRP.

Just like Allparts. Never buy straight from AllParts. Go to an AllParts dealer.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I've only done upgraded to a big brass block on one Floyd Rose Equipped guitar (pickups were Hotrails and a JB.) On that particular guitar I really only noticed a significant change in sustain. It sounded "better" but the only think I could say for a fact was noticeably better was the sustain. That being said, I would definitely do the same upgrade on the next guitar I get with a Floyd.

And +1 to what GilmourD said, go to an AllParts dealer rather than buying direct.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

Ill toss in my .02 also.. Basically going to be repeating some of the above. At first, I thought it was snake oil.. I ordered a couple of the cheaper blocks from the dealer that King Izzo posted. I was pretty impressed. Now, Im hard of hearing, so I cant tell you the highs raised by x db and the mids by blah blah.. I will concur that what was said previously is that the guitar sounded Beefier. Thats the best description.. Just took the good and made it better.. Just a thicker beefier tone. Like when you buy ground beef and shape the patties yourself before grilling, vs buying the flat preformed patty.. haha It impressed me so much I do it right away to any floyded guitar I get now. I go with the reg brass. I havent tried the others yet, mostly for cost. I AM going to try a tungsten one pretty soon just to see.
Unless you are an EXTREME whammy beast, I have nearly no issues with a good range of motion front and back when I use a 37mm. Once I messed up and ordered a 42 and I had to shave just alittle wood off of the inner wall in the cavity to get the trem to lay flat. And the trem was dive only...

Which one?? Well, the FU ones (bought from FU) are obviously the most pricey. The ones King posted are the most cost effective and a fine product. (its like buying generic) I get all mine from KGC now tho. I like that they have a spring retainer bar you can get. Whether thats something you want or need is your call. I like em. They are mid priced, nicely made and I like working with them.. Tho I had NO issues with the guy on ebay.
So maybe that will help you that hasnt already been addressed..
On my main players (my Charvels, I bought the brass claws, Ti inserts for the string holder blocks and stainless screws.) The stainless screws that hold the blocks down, mostly for rust avoidance since I sweat heavy. But the stainless screws that lock the strings in, add some weight and that gives even more mass.. The Ti blocks are mostly over kill, but when I got my US Charvel, one of the blocks in it was broken, so thats what prompted the purchase..

One other thing.. I switched to using Raw Vintage Springs and am happy with those. Although I am quite curious about the new noiseless ones.. The RV springs are thicker and a tiny bit heavier. (EVEN MORE MASS!!) but they have a nice easy action when diving..
Cant wait to hear what you think!
 
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Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

The whole industry leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Original Floyd Rose trems are supposed to be the best engineered on the market. If big blocks are an upgrade over the stock block, then they should come as standard.

As it is, they are creating a market for upgrade blocks by intentionally not supplying them as standard, all the while making claims about well thought out quality engineering.

It's like if a quality brand like Mercedes claimed to make the best engineered cars in the world, but shipped them with crappy engines... and then had the cheek to sell decent engines separately as an upgrade.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

But you can buy the same vehicles from different makers with a different engine option.

So, in a way you are right. When buying a FR new you should have the ability to upgrade the block as an instant option and not pay seperate. Though I imagine that would leave them with an excessive inventory of standard blocks no one word want. Which would cause them to jack up the price of the FR to be the same as if you were buying the new block on its own...and the spiral begins.

I bought a vintage copper FR and it came with the wrong block length. So I took the block off the Trem I replaced with the FR. Honestly I might just leave it alone b/c there may be times when I NEED a thinner sound for a cover time or to sit better in the mix. Now that I'm gigging again time will tell.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

The whole industry leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Original Floyd Rose trems are supposed to be the best engineered on the market. If big blocks are an upgrade over the stock block, then they should come as standard.

As it is, they are creating a market for upgrade blocks by intentionally not supplying them as standard, all the while making claims about well thought out quality engineering.

It's like if a quality brand like Mercedes claimed to make the best engineered cars in the world, but shipped them with crappy engines... and then had the cheek to sell decent engines separately as an upgrade.

The funny thing is, though, not everybody wants a big block. I would probably say that the big block market is pretty small.

But you can buy the same vehicles from different makers with a different engine option.

So, in a way you are right. When buying a FR new you should have the ability to upgrade the block as an instant option and not pay seperate. Though I imagine that would leave them with an excessive inventory of standard blocks no one word want. Which would cause them to jack up the price of the FR to be the same as if you were buying the new block on its own...and the spiral begins.

I bought a vintage copper FR and it came with the wrong block length. So I took the block off the Trem I replaced with the FR. Honestly I might just leave it alone b/c there may be times when I NEED a thinner sound for a cover time or to sit better in the mix. Now that I'm gigging again time will tell.

Kinda...

As a Mustang guy, let me tell you, the aftermarket is HUGE, but even then it's only a small part of the overall Mustang market. Most Mustangs you see out there are stock and that's just the way the owners want them. Me? Nope. My old '94 GT had a Magnaflow cat-back, a high-flow H-pipe, an MSD 6AL ignition box, shorty headers, cold-air intake, an a massaged intake, and that was before I ended up killing that motor (watch out for what you think are puddles and are really small rain-formed lakes). My brother used to be an engine builder. He had a Fox-body Mustang he dropped a monster of a 396 (a 351W bored and stroked) into.

The Floyd Rose as it exists IS an extremely well engineered. The smaller blocks, as they were originally designed, work well within the confines of most guitars, where originally the Floyd Rose was a retrofit of the Strat trem. The larger blocks cause some issues in some guitars and need to have routes enlarged.

Some people, like me, can make these things work. However, for 98% of the people out there, the Floyd Rose as it is does exactly what they want.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

The whole industry leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Original Floyd Rose trems are supposed to be the best engineered on the market. If big blocks are an upgrade over the stock block, then they should come as standard.

As it is, they are creating a market for upgrade blocks by intentionally not supplying them as standard, all the while making claims about well thought out quality engineering.

It's like if a quality brand like Mercedes claimed to make the best engineered cars in the world, but shipped them with crappy engines... and then had the cheek to sell decent engines separately as an upgrade.


It's a truth that nearly every mass-produced product, no matter how well engineered, is a collection of compromises. It may be that there were other better options for the design, none of which could be mass-produced cost-effectively, and still stay within expected profit margins. Make something too expensive, you shrink your accessible market. Or, it was designed to fit well into a very wide range of guitars. That flexibility is also compromise. The "one size fits most" mentality leaves room for cases where modification is necessary or desired.
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I also see your point, but as was said previously, not everyone wants or needs to "upgrade". PLUS, the orig Floyd was designed 20+ years ago and as with nearly everything in the world, people are always trying to improve things. The original model T didnt have A/C and a cd player or produce 300+ horsepower. So, it's been made better. And as mentioned, cost concessions. If the upgrades came stock, then the base price of any guitar that comes with a Floyd would be higher and people would complain about that, or less kids would be able to buy that first guitar.. Just options...
 
Re: Talk To Me About Floyd Rose Sustain Blocks. I have Quite A Few Questions

I can share my experiences. I have 3 guitars with Floyd Rose trems - 1) an alder bodied San Dimas style parts caster with an OFR, 2) a mahogany Kramer Pacer Classic with a Floyd Rose Special and 3) an old Kramer Striker with another Floyd Rose Special.
1) for the alder dan Dimas with the OFR - a brass big block did change the tone compared to the stock block. There was nothing wrong with the stock block but the brass block added some slight warmth and resonance. It was most noticeable with holding the guitar, I could feel it resonating more. So for this guitar it moved the tone in a good direction.
2) for the mahogany Kramer a brass block did not work out as well, as the mahogany body already has a warm tone the brass block rounded and warmed the tone further. For this guitar I ended up removing the crappy special block and installing the OFR block from guitar 1. It sounds the best with this guitar.
3) the Kramer Striker responded well to a brass block which was way better than the stock Floyd Rose special block.

In my opinion the stock OFR block will give you a balanced tone in most guitars. The aftermarket blocks are great if you want to further optimize your tone. Which block works best depends on the inherent tonal characteristics of the guitar - bright, warm, lacking sustain etc.
 
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