The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

[Kivitel]

Okay. In hifi, large drivers are rarely used for both bass and mid hi guitar fequencies, the reason being that it takes way too much energy to start and stop a 12" driver for them to be particularly responsive.

Now, with guitar cabs you're not going for hifi, but you still want a speaker that can really smack you around, which is why, as I understand, the fender bassman is so awesome. The surface area of 4x10 is larger than 2x12, but since there is more magnet's bumping per square inch of cone, you get a cabinet which is small, shallow and huge sounding, having great bass with better response than a 2x12.

So anyway, I was thinking, why stop there? Why not do an 6x8? I can't remember my calculations, but I think 6x8 moves as much air as 4x10, and you have the added benefit of even more punch and desirable hifi qualities.

Now, speaking of drivers, could one use hifi-type drivers, ie drivers that are not 'voiced' to sound like something but rather have a flat response? This is what modelling speakers do, right?

This leads me to my next question: why don't people use good PA type speakers for guitar? They have great impact, power and portability.

Discuss! Why no transmission lines? Why so few bass reflex guitar cabs?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

most speakers smaller than a 10 just don't have the balls for guitar...truth is a lot of 10 don't have it either. I used to polay through 2 8' for my low volume rig and it did alright but there is simply not enough body to the tone to play with it all the time...

 

[V!N]

Re: The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

This leads me to my next question: why don't people use good PA type speakers for guitar? They have great impact, power and portability.

Go find an old bluesmusician with old Les Paul and an old Marshall full-stack with greenbacks. Hear him crank it so the tubes in the pre-amp, the phase inverter, the tubes in the poweramp AND the speakers break up.

Then come back and you can answer your question yourself. :smokin:

 

[joelap]

Re: The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

Go find an old bluesmusician with old Les Paul and an old Marshall full-stack with greenbacks. Hear him crank it so the tubes in the pre-amp, the phase inverter, the tubes in the poweramp AND the speakers break up.

Then come back and you can answer your question yourself. :smokin:

+1!!!

Bass reflex is definately a possibility, and is discussed in some of Kevin O'Connor's bocks on tube amps and DIY speaker cabinets. Problem is, when you make a bass reflex cab, a 2x12 cabinet becomes a 1x12 with a bass reflex, which handles less power. In order to have the same speaker area as a normal cab, a bass reflex cab will need to be bigger.

Let the hi-fi guys have their fancy-shmancy stuff... I'll take the imperfections! :dance:

God I wish I had a 4x12 with greenbacks instead of this 2x12 I've got right now with 60L Hellatones.

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

I don't have all the answers, but regardless of the total speaker area...a 12" fits more naturally in the guitar's voicing, IMHO.

Regardless of the volume of air pushed by a cab, the tonal blend is directly rated to the width of the speaker.

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I am not impuning you logic, but if this same scenario posed were taken to the extreme, a bunch of little 2" speakers from tiny AM radios (remember them?) could rule the world! They do not.

A set of 4 x 10's might have more magnet area...but...they also have more speaker edge area holding the cones still.

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PA speakers and home HiFi are reproducers of music, not creators. A 10" speaker is fine for HiFi, as a super majority of these systems are placed in ported cabs which reduce the natural tonal peaks and valleys of the woofer. Smoother response is name of the game.

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Musical instrument speakers are special! They are intended to create, not merely reproduce. They will typically have heavier cones, larger magnets, and larger heavy duty voice coils to help dissipate the heat (like an automotive radiator dissipates engine heat).

Using components that were meant for HiFi, and PA will usually result in dull and boring tone.

Musical instrument speakers for guitar are about flavor! To me, it is the difference between sinking my teeth into a juicy rib eye steak...or merely trying to chew on a Polaroid photo of the same steak. Yuck!

Electric bassists are way ahead of guitarists in using more exotic components because the demands are different.

 

[ericmeyer4]

Re: The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

Didn't Derek Trucks use some car speakers in his cab? I remember reading this some time back.

 

[Stratman]

Re: The bassman paradox: please advise on my revolutionary new project idea

I guess that Ampeg's SVT - 8X10 inch does not sound like a loud amp.

But it is quite louder than any marshall using a 4X12 cabinet.