The best cap material for tone pot

[GuitarStv]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

I don't see why they didn't group some caps with the same measured value and test and compare those.

They did.

If you read the legends of the graphs provided, you will see the exact measured values of the caps tested . . . many of which are identical, or less than 1% different from others in the same graph.

Their conclusion isn't congruent with their findings lol.

Can you reference the data points you're drawing that from? From what I am seeing, their findings show no difference between material type when taking into account the actual value of the capacitor. Which is what they concluded.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

They compared caps of different measured values, posted the results on a very imprecise graph, which yielded different frequency responses, then loosely claimed that there's no difference between caps of different materials but the same measured value... When they didn't even compare caps of the same measured value in the first place!! Lol!!

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

They compared caps of different measured values, posted the results on a very imprecise graph, which yielded different frequency responses, then loosely claimed that there's no difference between caps of different materials but the same measured value... When they didn't even compare caps of the same measured value in the first place!! Lol!!

The second graph shows nine caps of different materials with the same measured value (between 0.0219 and 0.0218), compared.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

I see values as low as 18.6nf and as high as 24.8nf.

 

[Jacew]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

I see values as low as 18.6nf and as high as 24.8nf.

Here for your convinience:



All labeled 22nf caps, there are caps of same real value and caps of different real value. That's not important: Notice how the lines exactly line up based on only the real value of each cap.

No difference in different caps otherwise.

I'm out.

 

[Mincer]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

Yeah, I know I couldn't hear that.

 

[WDeeGee]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

Here for your convinience:

View attachment 102534

All labeled 22nf caps, there are caps of same real value and caps of different real value. That's not important: Notice how the lines exactly line up based on only the real value of each cap.

No difference in different caps otherwise.

I'm out.

You forget one crucial element: these frequency response test are done with simple sinuswave signals (for ease of measuring).

A real guitar signal, even from a single note, and certainly from chords, is a very complex combination of harmonics. So it's just comparing apples with ... baskets of apples, really.

Furthermore, these frequency response test are done rather slowly, measuring the response with each frequency. It says nothing about how the cap copes with transients, which I assume may vary across the spectrum (it would be nice to see graphs of that). So if the cap is slow to pick up transients, causing a minimal delay in letting the signal through (because of dielectric resistance), it creates a minimal phase shift pertaining only to a certain frequency band, all of which would color the sound of a complex musical signal. Also the resistance of the dielectric could theoretically produce its own harmonics (it would be nice to see graphs of that, too). There would be no such problems with a simple sinoidal signal.

If you make music like Kraftwerk, and are looking for a band name, here it is: "Sinoidal Signal".

 

[zionstrat]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

A

Here for your convinience:

View attachment 102534

All labeled 22nf caps, there are caps of same real value and caps of different real value. That's not important: Notice how the lines exactly line up based on only the real value of each cap.

No difference in different caps otherwise.

I'm out.

You be nailed it... Thanks for taking the time to document this.

There will always be buyers for gold tipped patch cords and Gibson bumblebees (real and fake) because the placebo effect is very real.

But i feel so much better when we can use our customers $ on the things that really make a difference (like pups).

Funny side bar, used to work in a studio with a non working SSL strip... We named one of the pots the sweetener knob and when wannabe producers wanted a bit more of some esoteric undescribable, we would turn it in very small increments until they were happy with the new sound

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Clint 55]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

That's called a false dichotomy. Not spending 2 cents on a cap doesn't mean you're automatically spending $200 on some vintage hype. I think I got a pair of pios for like $10. And give it a rest with the placebo effect. If you don't care then good for you.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

That's called a false dichotomy. Not spending 2 cents on a cap doesn't mean you're automatically spending $200 on some vintage hype. I think I got a pair of pios for like $10. And give it a rest with the placebo effect. If you don't care then good for you.

Not a good example. 10$ for a cap is at least 40 times more money than you should be spending. That's absolutely too much! Like spending 30$ for 'tone screws' to hold your pickup rings in place when 5 cent hardware store specials will work fine.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

Ok why are you telling me what I need to get?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

That's called a false dichotomy. Not spending 2 cents on a cap doesn't mean you're automatically spending $200 on some vintage hype. I think I got a pair of pios for like $10. And give it a rest with the placebo effect. If you don't care then good for you.

Clint, I didn't mean for this to come off as anything personal. The o p asked about caps and their differences and research and I haven't seen any research that backs up any difference in caps as long as they're specs are exactly the same. Placebo seems like the most likely reason, but I'm totally open to any research that hasn't been contrived to support black hat marketing.

Frankly, I think deep down we all know it's just like pickups and everything else. Every once in awhile the best of the best of the best all gets combined into one instrument. A coil that's a little bit underwound, a cap that's a bit off spec, maple that's a little bit denser than average... whatever.

So we all try to replicate that magic formula, but most of the time we don't know every factor and measurement and and pseudo-science jumps to the forefront... Sometimes it is an honest attempt to quantify without all of the data..but we can't deny that there are gold plated cables that are pitched as magical... caveat emptor

I know we will never turn this into pure science and experimentation is the part that I like the most. And if it sounds good and the customer is happy it really doesn't matter how we got there...

So I'm guessing we're probably on the same page 99% of the time.





Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

On the first guitar I modded
I used a paper in oil cap
And other fancy nonsense
It sounds great no doubt

But since then I have use the cheap ceramic ones I can get a hundred of for $2

Those also sound great

No one else can listen to any of my guitars and tell which one has the PIO cap

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

Are we even STILL discussing this?

It's like how changing from tophat knobs to speed knobs changes the entire tone of the guitar making it sound so dark that you ultimately have to replace the pickups and go with 1 meg vol pots to compensate.

Hey guys, give Clint a break. Not all of us can hear this difference in knobs, but Clint actually CAN. And it's NOT a placebo effect.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

WAT

That's called a straw man by the way.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

 

[Clint 55]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

You'll encounter disagreement if you try to claim unequivocally that others aren't in control of their senses.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

Mallory or Orange drop. Don't give a **** about the material just the values and tolerances.

.001 is my holy grail.

.001?!
Are you sure about that? In what unit of measurement...nanofarads, microfarads, ..., ?

Maybe you meant .010 uf?

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

.001?!
Are you sure about that? In what unit of measurement...nanofarads, microfarads, ..., ?

Maybe you meant .010 uf?

0.010 is pretty subtle. Not sure I'd hear much difference at all with 0.001.

 

[jeremy]

Re: The best cap material for tone pot

if i was using a .001 cap, i wouldnt care about material either