The best cap material for tone pot
- Thread starter CarlosG
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GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
I hope you're paying at least 30$ for the cap. Otherwise it won't sound as good.
I will be using a 6.8nf ceramic cap in my new pickguard.
I hope you're paying at least 30$ for the cap. Otherwise it won't sound as good.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
FWIW, 0.001µF = 1nF = 1000pF is roughly equivalent to 20' of average guitar cable. It's precisely the value where cable capacitance starts to alter noticeably the tone in some playing situations. Examples @ 5:14 and 5:37 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sjeVQpS94
For reasons that I won't explain here, low value caps might have more effect on the resonant peak of a pickup when a tone pot is full up than standard 100nF/ 47nF/ 33nF/ 22nF capacitors.
To the OP: you might have understood now that "the best cap material" is a can of worms (joke that we could take literally BTW: greasy organic matters are actually capacitive).)
FWIW, 0.001µF = 1nF = 1000pF is roughly equivalent to 20' of average guitar cable. It's precisely the value where cable capacitance starts to alter noticeably the tone in some playing situations. Examples @ 5:14 and 5:37 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sjeVQpS94
if i was using a .001 cap, i wouldnt care about material either
For reasons that I won't explain here, low value caps might have more effect on the resonant peak of a pickup when a tone pot is full up than standard 100nF/ 47nF/ 33nF/ 22nF capacitors.
To the OP: you might have understood now that "the best cap material" is a can of worms (joke that we could take literally BTW: greasy organic matters are actually capacitive).
)
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
Absolutely speaking, I totally agree : a pickup through a 1nF (1000pF) cable has its resonant peak several hundreds or thousands of hertz LOWER than through a 100pF wire... and this change should be easily heard through any pair of good headphones, when a guitar is plugged directly to the board.
I've said above that the effect starts to "alter noticeably the tone" @ 1nF because
a) the "roll off" caused by stray capacitance actually follows a "bump" @ resonance (this bump being the famous "resonant peak")
b) with many pickups this bump / resonant peak shifts in the high mids when stray capacitance reaches 1nF... and all guitar cabs reproduce the high mids.
I've also said that it alters noticeably the tone "in some playing situations" because...
a) some loudspeakers (and our ears when we get old) roll off the highrange @ a lower frequency than many resonant peaks and don't reflect much such changes;
b) a change in stray capacitance is way less noticeable in front of a noisy audience and/or when the amp is cranked up and makes our audition distort;
c) the impact of stray capacitance depends on the inductance of the pickup...
A P90 (inductance: 7.5H) will resonate then roll off around 2600hz through a 100pF cable and around 1600hz through a 1nF wire. That's "only" 1000hz of difference.
With the same change in stray capacitance, the resonance of a Strat pickup (inductance 2.5H) will shift from 6000hz to less than 3000hz: that's 3khz of difference and should be noticeable to most ears (as in the vid mentioned in my last post).
It would be worse with a higher stray capacitance, as shown online for years by Helmuth Lemme: https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/secrets15.gif
Source: https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
FWIW (= my 2 cents of tone cap... but I share it online for free once again, as I do for decades; poor imitation of Bill Lawrence who did the same before to pass away: http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm ... RIP, Bill ).
Absolutely speaking, I totally agree : a pickup through a 1nF (1000pF) cable has its resonant peak several hundreds or thousands of hertz LOWER than through a 100pF wire... and this change should be easily heard through any pair of good headphones, when a guitar is plugged directly to the board.
I've said above that the effect starts to "alter noticeably the tone" @ 1nF because
a) the "roll off" caused by stray capacitance actually follows a "bump" @ resonance (this bump being the famous "resonant peak")
b) with many pickups this bump / resonant peak shifts in the high mids when stray capacitance reaches 1nF... and all guitar cabs reproduce the high mids.
I've also said that it alters noticeably the tone "in some playing situations" because...
a) some loudspeakers (and our ears when we get old) roll off the highrange @ a lower frequency than many resonant peaks and don't reflect much such changes;
b) a change in stray capacitance is way less noticeable in front of a noisy audience and/or when the amp is cranked up and makes our audition distort;
c) the impact of stray capacitance depends on the inductance of the pickup...
A P90 (inductance: 7.5H) will resonate then roll off around 2600hz through a 100pF cable and around 1600hz through a 1nF wire. That's "only" 1000hz of difference.
With the same change in stray capacitance, the resonance of a Strat pickup (inductance 2.5H) will shift from 6000hz to less than 3000hz: that's 3khz of difference and should be noticeable to most ears (as in the vid mentioned in my last post).
It would be worse with a higher stray capacitance, as shown online for years by Helmuth Lemme: https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/secrets15.gif
Source: https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
FWIW (= my 2 cents of tone cap... but I share it online for free once again, as I do for decades; poor imitation of Bill Lawrence who did the same before to pass away: http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm ... RIP, Bill ).
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
So you're saying that you use the .001uf cap, but to hear its affect on tone the way you like it, you turn your tone pot all the way down? So you essentially play with a fixed resister and .001uf cap in series to ground and you get the constant tone that you like and don't need to vary your tone with a pot?
So you're saying that you use the .001uf cap, but to hear its affect on tone the way you like it, you turn your tone pot all the way down? So you essentially play with a fixed resister and .001uf cap in series to ground and you get the constant tone that you like and don't need to vary your tone with a pot?
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
Hey, I'm not judging. Just asking. Because this is the first I've heard of doing that. That concept is a bit foreign to me. I love to use my tone pot to change the tone from song to song if called for.
I have to admit that I do something similar, but not with such a low value cap and the pot turned way down. First of all, I use caps with values of .010um, .015uf, .022uf, and sometimes (rarely) even .033uf depending on the inherent tone of the guitar and pickups used. I wire in a tone bypass switch and set the tone pot for whatever main tone I use most, the "sweet spot", (usually it will be between "4" and "7"). But I still maintain the ability to turn the knob way down to get very bassy tones or to flip the switch to get screaming leads.
Hey, I'm not judging. Just asking. Because this is the first I've heard of doing that. That concept is a bit foreign to me. I love to use my tone pot to change the tone from song to song if called for.
I have to admit that I do something similar, but not with such a low value cap and the pot turned way down. First of all, I use caps with values of .010um, .015uf, .022uf, and sometimes (rarely) even .033uf depending on the inherent tone of the guitar and pickups used. I wire in a tone bypass switch and set the tone pot for whatever main tone I use most, the "sweet spot", (usually it will be between "4" and "7"). But I still maintain the ability to turn the knob way down to get very bassy tones or to flip the switch to get screaming leads.
Jacew
New member
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
That's what I do: Fixed resistor + low value (< 10nf) cap behind a switch in all my guitars.
I use volumes & exp control to adjust tone if I need to.
That's what I do: Fixed resistor + low value (< 10nf) cap behind a switch in all my guitars.
I use volumes & exp control to adjust tone if I need to.
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
You're using a .010uf cap (pretty normal value), and what value resister?
You must be using modern wiring so that the tone is lowered as the volume is lowered?
You're using a .010uf cap (pretty normal value), and what value resister?
You must be using modern wiring so that the tone is lowered as the volume is lowered?
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
Been playing my 6.8nf orange drop for a week and it sounds way better than the ceramic one. The ceramic one sounded cheap and grainy. The orange drop sounds smooth and supple - the same character that I noticed from the 22nf orange drop. It must be just the right value tho!!
Been playing my 6.8nf orange drop for a week and it sounds way better than the ceramic one. The ceramic one sounded cheap and grainy. The orange drop sounds smooth and supple - the same character that I noticed from the 22nf orange drop. It must be just the right value tho!!
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Jacew
New member
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
No, under 10 nf. I can't really say (or remember for that matter) exact values, as I just go with try and listen method to pick right ones for particular guitar.
I connect the pickup to middle wiper (for separate volumes for pickups) and use no load master vol after tone circuit. I don't know if that counts as "modern wiring"?
No, under 10 nf. I can't really say (or remember for that matter) exact values, as I just go with try and listen method to pick right ones for particular guitar.
I connect the pickup to middle wiper (for separate volumes for pickups) and use no load master vol after tone circuit. I don't know if that counts as "modern wiring"?
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Re: The best cap material for tone pot
It's "modern" if the tone circuit comes off of the vol pot input lug...doesn't matter if it is the first or middle lug. If the tone circuit comes off of the output lug on the vol pot it is 50's wiring.
It's "modern" if the tone circuit comes off of the vol pot input lug...doesn't matter if it is the first or middle lug. If the tone circuit comes off of the output lug on the vol pot it is 50's wiring.
Jacew
New member
Re: The best cap material for tone pot
Yep. Since I have no load master vol after the circuit, and volume for each pickup before it (albeit practically used to adjust tone rather than volume), I thought naming it either would just cause confusion...
If I need to adjust output without affecting high end I use pedal in my board after buffer.
Yep. Since I have no load master vol after the circuit, and volume for each pickup before it (albeit practically used to adjust tone rather than volume), I thought naming it either would just cause confusion...
If I need to adjust output without affecting high end I use pedal in my board after buffer.
