The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

[Jet-Jaguar]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

Blocks that are stock in older MIM Fender guitars were made from Zinc...zinc is made mostly of lead...(see properties of lead above!).

Zinc is an element (Zn on the periodic table,) the same as Lead is an element (Pb on the periodic table.) How is Zinc "made mostly of lead?"

The cold rolling may be true, may not be, I dunno, but the rest of your post sounds like fanboy BS.

I know that Guitar Fetish advertises their blocks as "hardened" steel, I'll have to write them and ask them what they mean by that.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

The cold rolling may be true, may not be, I dunno, but the rest of your post sounds like fanboy BS.

I don't know about any of that, even in the days of cheap overseas labor and manufacturing processes is it STILL so hard to believe you get what you pay for?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I don't know about any of that, even in the days of cheap overseas labor and manufacturing processes is it STILL so hard to believe you get what you pay for?

No, but it's not hard to believe that a lot of the stuff about trem blocks is total voodoo, either

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

Well some of you guys even like stainless steel frets...so I pay litte attention to the wondermetal threads these days.....
All I know is that my old vintage style Gotohs...old Floyds and Gotoh Floyds have worked well for a few decades for me now.
The total cheap bridges I always yank out....and installs something more substantial..
All the other talk reminds me of the 70s...brass was the big thing back then...trends come and go.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

**** dude...you just never let up do you???

Looks like you don't pay attention much either...I've said in various threads that these GFS blocks and the new Fender blocks are made from steel but they are NOT cold rolled steel like Callaham blocks and like vintage (50's/60's) Fender blocks. They are hot rolled steel blocks and some of them are leaded steel blocks and American Standard Fender blocks are made from soft cast steel...lead has no tonal or acoustic properties and kills vibration. Callaham is the only company making blocks from cold rolled steel (at least the only one I know of!). Blocks that are stock in older MIM Fender guitars were made from Zinc...zinc is made mostly of lead...(see properties of lead above!).

The plain truth is this, if you have an ear a cold rolled steel block will give you added sustain and clarity if you up grade from a little thin MIM Zinc block to a GFS steel block thats bigger Im sure the sound will get "better" but it is in no way the same or as good as a Callaham block...

The truth (that most guys on these types of forums simply refuse to believe) is that in most cases you do get what you pay for...

If you upgrade something low buck (like say for example a thin MIM Fender tremolo block) to a better part (like say for example a "full size" GFS trem block) and like it, thats great but it doesn't mean that if another guy uses a (for example) a Callaham tremolo block that he wasted his money becasue it was 2.5 times the cost of the GFS and it also doesn't mean that because the Callaham and the GFS are the same (about) size that they are the same sonically...it simply doesn't work that way.

Anyway, I always seem to get hounded by a flock of flamming @ss bags in these threads so Im going to leave tham all alone from here on out...

Look, I'm sorry ... I don't want to be a dick about this. It's just that you've (as you've said) made plenty of posts about trem blocks, and so far I haven't seen you post any evidence to back up what you're saying.

On top of that, when you post something blatantly incorrect, like that zinc is made mostly of lead, it really kills your credibility on this subject. I'm sure that's just a misunderstanding on your part, and you probably meant to say something else, but it's tough to buy into your claims when I read something like that.

I asked you to explain how you knew all of this, and you still haven't responded (and I guess you won't ever now). Maybe you've tested all of these trem blocks - if so, that's great! Let us learn from your experience! Maybe you have learned this info from some very credible sources. That's great too. We just want you to share your knowledge!

It just bugs me that you make these claims and offer absolutely no support for them. It comes across as stating opinion as fact. There's a big difference between saying "I love my Callaham block" and saying "Your GFS block is inferior to my Callaham block." If you can't see why one of those statements might cause an argument, I don't know what else to say.

 

[LobsterSausage]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

Good point about the Zinc vs. Lead (can't argue with chemistry...). However, I now have a Callaham block. It is far better than the stock block in my MIA strat. The sound is much improved. Looking it over in comparison to the stock block it is instantly apparent that the workmanship and attention to detail is superior in the Callaham block. For most of y'all, the Callaham block shouldn't be too big of a hurdle. For right-handers it's only about 80 bucks. For me (and the rest of my lefty kin) it runs about $180. It's my birthday, so I sprang for it. Well worth the investment.

I am interested, though, to find out what GFS says about their blocks.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I do apologize about the zinc/lead thing...that is not correct (brain fart), what I was thinking in my mind is that zind is not much better (if any better) in the acoutic properties than lead, but either way I stand by my facts and like I said above I am leaving these threads alone.

I know what I am saying is truth...if you would simply read up on the facts rather than simply argue with someone an an internet forum you might learn something...

I say this to those of you that keep asking for proof...I refuse to waste more time on this...if you don't believe what I am saying that prove me wrong...I welcome the challenge!

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I am still puzzled by the block thing...
I want a whole vibrato that is well made.
I have tried a few Callahams...and then with standart Gotohs afterwards....I'm not going to get a Callaham, not that they are not wellmade and sounds good....
It just did not sound any better than the old stock Gotoh, that has been made that way for along time now...different yes but not in any way better or more "sustaining" and all that rubbish....
Just another too geeky guitarhead thing to me..
Not slamming anyone....it is your money and intrest...to me it just mattered very little..
Then again I am easy to please....if it works I am happy

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

No, but it's not hard to believe that a lot of the stuff about trem blocks is total voodoo, either

I dunno man, in my mind it makes sense that different materials are going to sound different. I mean we know that nickel and stainless frets sound different, we know maple and alder sound different, we know brass and steel blocks sound different.......so is it a stretch to believe that types of steel sound different.

I have no vested interest here I've never heard a Callaham or compared it to a GFS, MIM, or bungholio block.....on an engineering level though it makes sense to me.

I see all this as a recipe for a cake. You can't substitute blueberries for strawberries and expect your cake to taste the same. If a guy is wanting to get as close to the sound of a vintage X as possible he's going to have to follow the recipe as closely as possible. If that involves cold rolled steel, so be it...if it involves aluminum tailpieces, so be it....if it involves budweiser on the fingerboard, so be it!

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I dunno man, in my mind it makes sense that different materials are going to sound different. I mean we know that nickel and stainless frets sound different, we know maple and alder sound different, we know brass and steel blocks sound different.......so is it a stretch to believe that types of steel sound different.

I have no vested interest here I've never heard a Callaham or compared it to a GFS, MIM, or bungholio block.....on an engineering level though it makes sense to me.

I see all this as a recipe for a cake. You can't substitute blueberries for strawberries and expect your cake to taste the same. If a guy is wanting to get as close to the sound of a vintage X as possible he's going to have to follow the recipe as closely as possible. If that involves cold rolled steel, so be it...if it involves aluminum tailpieces, so be it....if it involves budweiser on the fingerboard, so be it!

That's totally logical, and I agree with your thinking. I think the key thing in your post is that you use the word "different" instead of "better".

Saying "you need a cold-rolled steel block to match vintage Fender specs" is totally agreeable. That's just a plain fact. Saying "a cold-rolled steel block is superior to any other block" is an opinion. Saying "you don't have an ear for good tone if you like your cheap block" is opinion AND arrogance.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

That's totally logical, and I agree with your thinking. I think the key thing in your post is that you use the word "different" instead of "better".

Saying "you need a cold-rolled steel block to match vintage Fender specs" is totally agreeable. That's just a plain fact. Saying "a cold-rolled steel block is superior to any other block" is an opinion. Saying "you don't have an ear for good tone if you like your cheap block" is opinion AND arrogance.

but.......but...but it IS superior, it has an 82.37941% better chance of stopping a bullet before it get to your boys!

It also comes down to holy grails of tone. If my, your, Christian, or Don Juan's idea of the "perfect" strat tone comes from a '5X or 6X strat then it's easy to see how one could "perceive" a block as "superior" because it can reliably produce that tone for decades.

For me the perfect strat tone has something to do with a VERY delicate balance of chime and warmth that I rarely hear. As a result I am using A2Ps, however I don't get enough chime but really don't want to go to different pups due to the OD friendliness of the A2Ps.

Now I DO have experience in Zinc Vs. Aluminum TPs....so I realize the difference that a lighter or different metal for one componet make. My AM. Std has a zinc/epoxy TP and can only be upgraded in my mind! I read these threads as part of my research before taking the plunge.

Luke

 

[jhale667]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I dunno man, in my mind it makes sense that different materials are going to sound different. I mean we know that nickel and stainless frets sound different, we know maple and alder sound different, we know brass and steel blocks sound different.......so is it a stretch to believe that types of steel sound different.

I have no vested interest here I've never heard a Callaham or compared it to a GFS, MIM, or bungholio block.....on an engineering level though it makes sense to me.

I see all this as a recipe for a cake. You can't substitute blueberries for strawberries and expect your cake to taste the same. If a guy is wanting to get as close to the sound of a vintage X as possible he's going to have to follow the recipe as closely as possible. If that involves cold rolled steel, so be it...if it involves aluminum tailpieces, so be it....if it involves budweiser on the fingerboard, so be it!

+1 Excellent post.

I have a couple of Fender American Vintage Bridges, and even they make the MIM bridge feel like a toy. The Callaham blocks and bridges are excellent, btw. Haven't tried GFS...

 

[Karmadog777]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

having a self procliamed doctorate in metallurgy and vibrationology , I for one can confirm and simultaniously deny many of the issues regarding said subject matter as if applies to this thread.
That being said, a large amound of poppycock and brouhaha must be taken into consideration and dispelled immediately within context of tonal resonance regarding the structural anchoring of ambient or ortherwise inaudible frequiency recognition.

In laymans terms., cast or pot metal will sound like poo.

Cold rolled steel will be the densest...I mean really dense
and as contradicting as that may seem the dense material will not suck your tone like a sponge,or a cast zink piece of pot metal.

This post was brought to you by Karma's Institute of Misinformation and School of Misguided Speculation

Peace!

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

.......so is it a stretch to believe that types of steel sound different.

If your cake consists of the batter and some blueberries, opting for strawberries instead would indeed make a huge difference. However, should you cover that thing with some rich chocolate icing, determining whether the berries are of the blue or straw variety just got a little tougher. Start goofing with different amounts of sugar in the batter, some sprinkles, and a scoop or two of ice cream on the side, and at some point, you're gonna have a pretty tough time determining which type of fruit is in there.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I should know better than to get involved with this, but since one my vocations has been in welding and metal frabrication before, I know a little about the chemistry.

As I recall Callaham claims that they use 1018 mild steel and so does Fender claim this on the vintage models. This was also what Fender used in the 50's and 60's, and what they use on vintage re-issue strat blocks. 1018 mild steel means that it is steel with ~ .18% carbon and most of the rest iron. (Its impossible to get steel that is only iron and carbon because some trace impurities are inevitable. Also since most steel anywhere today is recycled, it will have trace amounts of other metals used as alloying agents, such as nickel, copper, manganese,chrome....ect... ) But 1018 mild steel is just plain old ordinary steel. Its not special nor is it expensive.

Cold rolling is the standard treatment of regular old steel. The difference between cold rolling and hot rolling is that hot rolled steel will retain greater ductility. In other words cold rolled steel is more brittle. Now does this make a difference in sound? I don't know, but it might. Since cold rolled steel is harder and more brittle (mechanically) this may translate into a more "steely" sound? But my sense of common sense just tells me that mild steel is mild steel and there will be little to no difference in tone if its really mild steel. Also the trace alloys in recycled steel will have a similar hardening effect.

Lead is typically added to some metals to make it easier to machine (it doesn't wear the drill bits as fast). But this is a more common problem with brass and not steel. Most brass (which is a mixture of Copper and Zinc) used for machining has lead added. It can also be a problem with some cast metals that will be machined.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I don't have the blocks side by side, obviously, so I can't tell what the Fender vintage reissue block looks like, but I do know the Callaham, maybe GFS too?, has a very shallow countersink for the ball ends, whereas others, like my Am. Std, PRS, MIJs, MIMs, MIKs, Squiers and every other guitar with an inertia block has one size hole all the way up to the back of the baseplate.

I don't know if it matters, but it's different and does make for less metal.

I feel like I'm getting into a discussion about cast vs. forged frames....

Luke

 

[jhale667]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I should know better than to get involved with this, but since one my vocations has been in welding and metal frabrication before, I know a little about the chemistry.

As I recall Callaham claims that they use 1018 mild steel and so does Fender claim this on the vintage models. This was also what Fender used in the 50's and 60's, and what they use on vintage re-issue strat blocks. 1018 mild steel means that it is steel with ~ .18% carbon and most of the rest iron. (Its impossible to get steel that is only iron and carbon because some trace impurities are inevitable. Also since most steel anywhere today is recycled, it will have trace amounts of other metals used as alloying agents, such as nickel, copper, manganese,chrome....ect... ) But 1018 mild steel is just plain old ordinary steel. Its not special nor is it expensive.

Cold rolling is the standard treatment of regular old steel. The difference between cold rolling and hot rolling is that hot rolled steel will retain greater ductility. In other words cold rolled steel is more brittle. Now does this make a difference in sound? I don't know, but it might. Since cold rolled steel is harder and more brittle (mechanically) this may translate into a more "steely" sound? But my sense of common sense just tells me that mild steel is mild steel and there will be little to no difference in tone if its really mild steel. Also the trace alloys in recycled steel will have a similar hardening effect.

Lead is typically added to some metals to make it easier to machine (it doesn't wear the drill bits as fast). But this is a more common problem with brass and not steel. Most brass (which is a mixture of Copper and Zinc) used for machining has lead added. It can also be a problem with some cast metals that will be machined.

Interesting...:scratchch

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

LPB...you sound like my old teacher in school back then
Thanks for the post.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: The Guitar Fetish Tremolo Block

I should know better than to get involved with this, but since one my vocations has been in welding and metal frabrication before, I know a little about the chemistry.

As I recall Callaham claims that they use 1018 mild steel and so does Fender claim this on the vintage models. This was also what Fender used in the 50's and 60's, and what they use on vintage re-issue strat blocks. 1018 mild steel means that it is steel with ~ .18% carbon and most of the rest iron. (Its impossible to get steel that is only iron and carbon because some trace impurities are inevitable. Also since most steel anywhere today is recycled, it will have trace amounts of other metals used as alloying agents, such as nickel, copper, manganese,chrome....ect... ) But 1018 mild steel is just plain old ordinary steel. Its not special nor is it expensive.

Cold rolling is the standard treatment of regular old steel. The difference between cold rolling and hot rolling is that hot rolled steel will retain greater ductility. In other words cold rolled steel is more brittle. Now does this make a difference in sound? I don't know, but it might. Since cold rolled steel is harder and more brittle (mechanically) this may translate into a more "steely" sound? But my sense of common sense just tells me that mild steel is mild steel and there will be little to no difference in tone if its really mild steel. Also the trace alloys in recycled steel will have a similar hardening effect.

Lead is typically added to some metals to make it easier to machine (it doesn't wear the drill bits as fast). But this is a more common problem with brass and not steel. Most brass (which is a mixture of Copper and Zinc) used for machining has lead added. It can also be a problem with some cast metals that will be machined.

Hey, watch it.... no debunking the voodoo!

 

[jhale667]

Oh, geez an internet tough guy

Oh, geez an internet tough guy

... it's lucky for you that you live on the other side of the pond. Insulting me by calling me dense, simply because i decided to have my name engraved on the block would lead to you losing a few teeth.. if in fact you still have any !

...And you just made yourself look like a bigger tool by threatening him on the internet....

Yeah, too bad he lives "across the pond"...you could meet him at the flagpole on the playground at 3PM and settle this....