Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Somebody posted they'd tried one of these in a Custom. I don't know if they were joking or not. But either way, has anyone tried an A9?
The next frontier: Alnico 9...
- Thread starter Zhangliqun
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SpiderVenom
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
I sometimes wonder how many people spend more time messing with their guitar than playing it :laugh2:
Yes, I know, that's not helpful. Sorry.
I sometimes wonder how many people spend more time messing with their guitar than playing it :laugh2:
Yes, I know, that's not helpful. Sorry.
remingtonbo2001
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
You RANG? :laugh2: Sometimes I find myself so caught up in modifications, realizing how much time I wasted. I suppose it's a phase. Trying to achieve the HOLY GRAIL of TONE. You finally realize that the perfect tone can only sound perfect if played to perfection.
SpiderVenom said:
You RANG? :laugh2: Sometimes I find myself so caught up in modifications, realizing how much time I wasted. I suppose it's a phase. Trying to achieve the HOLY GRAIL of TONE. You finally realize that the perfect tone can only sound perfect if played to perfection.
remingtonbo2001
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
I haven't heard of an Alnico 9 magnet, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was already out.
I haven't heard of an Alnico 9 magnet, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was already out.
neosadist
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
(Chasing rabbits...)
Alnico 9 would be stronger than 8, than 5, etc.
What do the numbers in the ALNICO mean? So far it seems to be the (per google and various wikipedias) that the higher the number, the stronger, and at around alnico 5 and above, the magnets prefer a magnetic direction, whereas those with a number below 5 can be magnetized in any direction. (Not like this matters because the magnets in the pickups aren't going to move). Also, the lower the number, the weaker, but Alnico II magnets have more sustain. I've read some stuff, and either it's due to magnets pulling on strings (less pull = weaker magnet = more sustain) or due to the coil producing a magnetic field that fights with the magnet (similar to speaker coils).
Why someone would want Alnico IX versus ceramic is beyond me, since ceramics are usually strong. However, with Alnico, the way the separate metals alloy themselves results in an orderly magnet, which means they last long. Here's a link where I finally found more detailed info:
http://www.guitartabs.cc/forum/index.php?showtopic=61918&pid=1658509&st=40&#entry1658509
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/magnet_university/types_of_magnets.htm
Hope this helps out
Anyways, why someone would want a stronger magnet is beyond me. I'd think they'd go ceramic possibly, but I'm not sure. Best way to find out is to have fun testing them out!
However, there are other more expensive magnets listed in the second link that might offer better magnetic properties. If they cost more than ceramic / alnico, they're probably not worth it.
(Chasing rabbits...)
Alnico 9 would be stronger than 8, than 5, etc.
What do the numbers in the ALNICO mean? So far it seems to be the (per google and various wikipedias) that the higher the number, the stronger, and at around alnico 5 and above, the magnets prefer a magnetic direction, whereas those with a number below 5 can be magnetized in any direction. (Not like this matters because the magnets in the pickups aren't going to move). Also, the lower the number, the weaker, but Alnico II magnets have more sustain. I've read some stuff, and either it's due to magnets pulling on strings (less pull = weaker magnet = more sustain) or due to the coil producing a magnetic field that fights with the magnet (similar to speaker coils).
Why someone would want Alnico IX versus ceramic is beyond me, since ceramics are usually strong. However, with Alnico, the way the separate metals alloy themselves results in an orderly magnet, which means they last long. Here's a link where I finally found more detailed info:
http://www.guitartabs.cc/forum/index.php?showtopic=61918&pid=1658509&st=40&#entry1658509
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/magnet_university/types_of_magnets.htm
Hope this helps out
Anyways, why someone would want a stronger magnet is beyond me. I'd think they'd go ceramic possibly, but I'm not sure. Best way to find out is to have fun testing them out!
However, there are other more expensive magnets listed in the second link that might offer better magnetic properties. If they cost more than ceramic / alnico, they're probably not worth it.
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Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
The point is not higher power -- you can magnetize any grade of Alnico as strong or weak as you want, though the lower number grades have a lower ceiling for their max. But within that range, you could have an Alnico 8 that's weaker than an Alnico 2.
I'm just interested in uniqueness of tone, wondering what the tonal qualities of A9 might be.
As for "wasting time" on mods, a magnet swap is the quickest and easiest mod there is. Takes me about 5 minutes on a slow day. I practice and gig enough that I can spare 5 minutes once every few months when I decide to do a swap.
The point is not higher power -- you can magnetize any grade of Alnico as strong or weak as you want, though the lower number grades have a lower ceiling for their max. But within that range, you could have an Alnico 8 that's weaker than an Alnico 2.
I'm just interested in uniqueness of tone, wondering what the tonal qualities of A9 might be.
As for "wasting time" on mods, a magnet swap is the quickest and easiest mod there is. Takes me about 5 minutes on a slow day. I practice and gig enough that I can spare 5 minutes once every few months when I decide to do a swap.
neosadist
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
(Chasing rabbits...)
http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/DesignG_2.htm
I found another link on magnets that it said that typical Alnico V magnet field fade is < 3% over 100,000 hours (around 11 years). I don't think that Alnico magnets fading will be an issue, as other items on the guitar will go first. So an Alnico magnet is "forever" for our purposes, but remember Alnico V are stronger than Alnico II in magnetic field, so Alnico II magnets might fade faster than Alnico V. As temperature increases, fade increases, up to Alnico's limit of 860C (1580F), where they lose their field. It also goes into how magnets can be demagnetized or fade faster around strong magnetic fields, but this is also not an issue in playable conditions.
Lastly, it lists shock (being beat on) as a way a magnet can lose strength, so don't play your guitar with a sledgehammer. For pickups mounted on springs, this is even more unlikely.
So, back to Alnico 2/5/8/9, I guess an Alnico 9 magnet might work, but just because the field is stronger doesn't mean it's better. There's always ceramic magnets for stronger fields. I think SD has probably done a LOT of research in this area, more than us, so I trust his judgement. I don't know if he has Alnico 8/9 in the works: we'll have to see. I'll just swap in my Alnico V '59/JB combo, then I'll attempt to run some tests on what ESP LH100 pickups are actually made of. I'll keep you all posted.
(Chasing rabbits...)
http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/DesignG_2.htm
I found another link on magnets that it said that typical Alnico V magnet field fade is < 3% over 100,000 hours (around 11 years). I don't think that Alnico magnets fading will be an issue, as other items on the guitar will go first. So an Alnico magnet is "forever" for our purposes, but remember Alnico V are stronger than Alnico II in magnetic field, so Alnico II magnets might fade faster than Alnico V. As temperature increases, fade increases, up to Alnico's limit of 860C (1580F), where they lose their field. It also goes into how magnets can be demagnetized or fade faster around strong magnetic fields, but this is also not an issue in playable conditions.
Lastly, it lists shock (being beat on) as a way a magnet can lose strength, so don't play your guitar with a sledgehammer. For pickups mounted on springs, this is even more unlikely.
So, back to Alnico 2/5/8/9, I guess an Alnico 9 magnet might work, but just because the field is stronger doesn't mean it's better. There's always ceramic magnets for stronger fields. I think SD has probably done a LOT of research in this area, more than us, so I trust his judgement. I don't know if he has Alnico 8/9 in the works: we'll have to see. I'll just swap in my Alnico V '59/JB combo, then I'll attempt to run some tests on what ESP LH100 pickups are actually made of. I'll keep you all posted.
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Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
WickedLester and I have tried Alnico 8's and they are terrific.
As I said, my curiosity has nothing to do with power because both Alnico 5 and 8 have plenty for my tastes, and string pull is sometimes an issue with both grades. I'm just interested in the potentially different tone A9 or whatever else is out there might have. The power of a magnet can be whatever you want it be up to its max -- Alnico 8 can (and typically is) magnetized stronger than the lower number grades because its max power is higher. But you can magnetize it to a lower strength than even typical Alnico 2 or 3.
Point being that if Alnico 9 has a great tone but is too physically strong, it can be partially demagnetized (or re-magnetized) to a lower strength. If the tone is killer, it would be worth it.
One of the reasons Seymour doesn't use Alnico 8 is the price -- they are 3 times as expensive, probably because they have a fair amount of titanium (5% for A8, 8% for A8HC) in them whereas Alnico 2/3/4/5 have no titanium.
WickedLester and I have tried Alnico 8's and they are terrific.
As I said, my curiosity has nothing to do with power because both Alnico 5 and 8 have plenty for my tastes, and string pull is sometimes an issue with both grades. I'm just interested in the potentially different tone A9 or whatever else is out there might have. The power of a magnet can be whatever you want it be up to its max -- Alnico 8 can (and typically is) magnetized stronger than the lower number grades because its max power is higher. But you can magnetize it to a lower strength than even typical Alnico 2 or 3.
Point being that if Alnico 9 has a great tone but is too physically strong, it can be partially demagnetized (or re-magnetized) to a lower strength. If the tone is killer, it would be worth it.
One of the reasons Seymour doesn't use Alnico 8 is the price -- they are 3 times as expensive, probably because they have a fair amount of titanium (5% for A8, 8% for A8HC) in them whereas Alnico 2/3/4/5 have no titanium.
neosadist
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
I'd be interested in magnetic field density, which I assume is more related to how accurate the pickup is in reproducing the sound. However, an electric guitar played unplugged doesn't sound necessarily perfect. I guess part of the pickup's job is to add its own spice to the sound, not sure. If accuracy was paramount, I might consider a dual Jazz setup, but for now I'll do the '59/JB thing, maybe later I might get another guitar and stick in a dual Jazz setup and see what happens
I'd be interested in magnetic field density, which I assume is more related to how accurate the pickup is in reproducing the sound. However, an electric guitar played unplugged doesn't sound necessarily perfect. I guess part of the pickup's job is to add its own spice to the sound, not sure. If accuracy was paramount, I might consider a dual Jazz setup, but for now I'll do the '59/JB thing, maybe later I might get another guitar and stick in a dual Jazz setup and see what happens
Inge Malmstein
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
Pickups... the final frontier.
These are the voyages of the Seymour-Duncan Forum-Users.
Their continuing mission: to explore strange new pickups mods, to seek out new tones and new sounds, to boldly go where no mod has gone before.
DA DADADA DADA...:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Pickups... the final frontier.
These are the voyages of the Seymour-Duncan Forum-Users.
Their continuing mission: to explore strange new pickups mods, to seek out new tones and new sounds, to boldly go where no mod has gone before.
DA DADADA DADA...:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
Exactly, Capt. Kirk Picard...
Inge Malmstein said:
Exactly, Capt. Kirk Picard...
jalguitarman
Junior Member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
That was too cool !Inge Malmstein said:
dr.barlo
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
Have you ever thought of getting a gauss meter? I was gonna buy one, work's gotten pretty hectic so didn't. Maybe will do it now.
The following is the one that Duncan recommends in his q&a's:
http://catalyst.thirdeyemedia.net/rbannis/viewitems.eye?category=892&item=5778
Best,
B
Zhangliqun said:
Have you ever thought of getting a gauss meter? I was gonna buy one, work's gotten pretty hectic so didn't. Maybe will do it now.
The following is the one that Duncan recommends in his q&a's:
http://catalyst.thirdeyemedia.net/rbannis/viewitems.eye?category=892&item=5778
Best,
B
Shredhead7
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
As much as you can use different grades of alnico to produce different tonal qualities, it actually doesn't make much sense to look at stronger magnets in my opinion. I know lace sensors use Hot barium in some of there models, which has less magnetic pull and higher output. I would say that the best thing to look into in terms of magnets are new grades of metal. I haven't done enough research to know what to look into but if you could say find a new magnet type that has desirable qualities it would be much more suitable for a magnet swap.
In my opinion many people get so caught up in the vintage aspect of magnets that they forget that there are new frontiers to be explored in terms of pickups. Plus as much as certain magnets give off certain qualities, they arent entirely essential to the design of a pickup. Really the magnet functions as the power supply of the pickup and so in many ways new and more efficient materials would be smarter than a different grade of the same material.
I am not discourageing pickup swapping but i think that it would be wise to experiment with materials for a different result.
As much as you can use different grades of alnico to produce different tonal qualities, it actually doesn't make much sense to look at stronger magnets in my opinion. I know lace sensors use Hot barium in some of there models, which has less magnetic pull and higher output. I would say that the best thing to look into in terms of magnets are new grades of metal. I haven't done enough research to know what to look into but if you could say find a new magnet type that has desirable qualities it would be much more suitable for a magnet swap.
In my opinion many people get so caught up in the vintage aspect of magnets that they forget that there are new frontiers to be explored in terms of pickups. Plus as much as certain magnets give off certain qualities, they arent entirely essential to the design of a pickup. Really the magnet functions as the power supply of the pickup and so in many ways new and more efficient materials would be smarter than a different grade of the same material.
I am not discourageing pickup swapping but i think that it would be wise to experiment with materials for a different result.
motorboy29
New member
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
Ask Baron Von Shred, he says he's got one
Ask Baron Von Shred, he says he's got one
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: The next frontier: Alnico 9...
Good one.
Imp said:thats Pickguard to you, son
tom
Good one.
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