ibanezrocks
HardtailPisser
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
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The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
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devastone
Well-known member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
Yes and no, the original Marshall design was basically a Fender Bassman circuit with some minor tweaks to use tubes that were readily available in the UK, EL34s instead of 6L6s. ECC83s were/are basically the same as 12AX7s. So, the change in output tubes along with the Celestion (Greenback?) speakers and the speaker cabinets was the difference ins sound between the Fender Bassman and the Marshall JTM (someone will correct me if I'm wrong on the original Marshall designation).
One of the biggest changes you can do to an amp is to change the speaker. There are about as many speaker choices as pickup choices, and in the big picture, I would say the speaker has more to do with the tone than the pickup. But yes, there is still a "Marshall" type tone, a "Fender" type tone, etc... but it is shaped by what it comes out of.
Now, with modelers that are doing cab modeling, you want a flat response and let the modeler take care of all the shaping.
Yes and no, the original Marshall design was basically a Fender Bassman circuit with some minor tweaks to use tubes that were readily available in the UK, EL34s instead of 6L6s. ECC83s were/are basically the same as 12AX7s. So, the change in output tubes along with the Celestion (Greenback?) speakers and the speaker cabinets was the difference ins sound between the Fender Bassman and the Marshall JTM (someone will correct me if I'm wrong on the original Marshall designation).
One of the biggest changes you can do to an amp is to change the speaker. There are about as many speaker choices as pickup choices, and in the big picture, I would say the speaker has more to do with the tone than the pickup. But yes, there is still a "Marshall" type tone, a "Fender" type tone, etc... but it is shaped by what it comes out of.
Now, with modelers that are doing cab modeling, you want a flat response and let the modeler take care of all the shaping.
NegativeEase
New member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
Both have voicings -honestly -speakers have often more impact on your sound and tone that actual amps -depending on how transparent the amp and flat the speaker are. changing to a different speaker voicing is sometimes more dramatic than switching out your guitar to another guitar!
pickups, speakers and amp pre -probably the 3 biggest parts of your tone -unless you saturate your sound with pedals of course.
Both have voicings -honestly -speakers have often more impact on your sound and tone that actual amps -depending on how transparent the amp and flat the speaker are. changing to a different speaker voicing is sometimes more dramatic than switching out your guitar to another guitar!
pickups, speakers and amp pre -probably the 3 biggest parts of your tone -unless you saturate your sound with pedals of course.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
They are working on a simulated morphing speaker sphere....it will obliterate everybody....in a simulated way!
They are working on a simulated morphing speaker sphere....it will obliterate everybody....in a simulated way!
dpaterson
New member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
@devastone and @NegativeEase have pretty much nailed the perfect answers to this.
For the sake of interest here's a fine example of the difference a speaker can make to a digital modelling amp. even with that amp. having built in cab. sims.:
@devastone and @NegativeEase have pretty much nailed the perfect answers to this.
For the sake of interest here's a fine example of the difference a speaker can make to a digital modelling amp. even with that amp. having built in cab. sims.:
devastone
Well-known member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
As I mentioned before, I use a modeler (GT-1000) and have a cab with a Classic Lead 80. When I run through the cab I turn off the cab/speaker modeling, so it is like running the amp (whichever model(s) are in the patch) through the cab, so, more like a multi-channel amp through a guitar cab. Yes, not as flexible as modeling, but being as old school as I am, it's gives me more of that amp feeling when I want it although 90% of my live playing is direct through the PA with in-ear modelers.
As I mentioned before, I use a modeler (GT-1000) and have a cab with a Classic Lead 80. When I run through the cab I turn off the cab/speaker modeling, so it is like running the amp (whichever model(s) are in the patch) through the cab, so, more like a multi-channel amp through a guitar cab. Yes, not as flexible as modeling, but being as old school as I am, it's gives me more of that amp feeling when I want it although 90% of my live playing is direct through the PA with in-ear modelers.
NecroPolo
New member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
I can absolutely agree. I wouldn't call even my studio monitors "flat response". I think the whole FRFR term is misleading.
On the topic, I like simple effective things. I use AMT preamps into a DI box split1 XLR into PA split2 jack into an Alto TS310 live. It is not a substitute of a tube amp + 4x12" cabs but works fine.
I can absolutely agree. I wouldn't call even my studio monitors "flat response". I think the whole FRFR term is misleading.
On the topic, I like simple effective things. I use AMT preamps into a DI box split1 XLR into PA split2 jack into an Alto TS310 live. It is not a substitute of a tube amp + 4x12" cabs but works fine.
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dpaterson
New member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
Here's (below) a pretty alright video discussing the topic of FRFR vs. guitar cabinet speakers. No demos but some good info.
As somebody commented in the video comments though: "FRFR is a rabbit hole....so are IRs, both nearfield and far field".
Here's (below) a pretty alright video discussing the topic of FRFR vs. guitar cabinet speakers. No demos but some good info.
As somebody commented in the video comments though: "FRFR is a rabbit hole....so are IRs, both nearfield and far field".
ehdwuld
A Ficus
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
I just got two 10 inch "Modeling Guitar/Bass Speakers" measuring 6.7 ohms each and labeled as 30 watts
In a store closing deal
I think they are Peavey replacement/repair surplus
I'm gonna make me a two by ten cabinet
Or sell the OP one if he asks nicely
I just got two 10 inch "Modeling Guitar/Bass Speakers" measuring 6.7 ohms each and labeled as 30 watts
In a store closing deal
I think they are Peavey replacement/repair surplus
I'm gonna make me a two by ten cabinet
Or sell the OP one if he asks nicely
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
I’m thinking I’d rather have a guitar cab and good guitar speaker over a powered monitor.
I’m thinking I’d rather have a guitar cab and good guitar speaker over a powered monitor.
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
I don't mind powered monitors. If you mic up your amp and it is coming through the monitor, then you are using one, anyway. I eventually got tired of carrying a powered monitor, too. I then went to in ear monitors, with no amp, so I can hear a better mix and the stage volume doesn't get too intense.
I don't mind powered monitors. If you mic up your amp and it is coming through the monitor, then you are using one, anyway. I eventually got tired of carrying a powered monitor, too. I then went to in ear monitors, with no amp, so I can hear a better mix and the stage volume doesn't get too intense.
dpaterson
New member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
Meh. For some reason or the other I’m starting to lean toward a good powerful PA (like my Alto) with either an Axe-Fx III or a Kemper in my next financial life (which hopefully is not too far away now again). Getting a bit tired of the hassle of amp. micing. and all that goes with it and not to mention “neighbor consideration”. My CODE amps., even although they are indeed modelling amps., only sound good cranked and micd. A bit odd coming from me now after all this time and money and effort spent getting “my” tone with my amps. Especially odd because I was even thinking along the lines of those new Marshall Studio jobbies (JCM800 of course) maybe sometime. But when I look at the trouble I go to with multiple amps. and what not to get a nice big stereo sound??? Hmmmnnn... Fun to play with and tweak and what not. But it’s cost me precious practice and playing time. And as the dude says in one of the videos above which is a good point: once things are dialed in on something like an Axe-Fx or Kemper then your sound is your sound and stays constant. With the way I do things now: slight variations in mic. placement and amp. volume etc. etc. etc. have me tweaking all over again. I may have to relocate shortly and I already know it’s gonna take me a month of Sunday’s to dial in “my” tone with my amps. again. And only then to maybe find out that my new neighbors are more full of sh*t than the current ones!!! LOL!!! And sadly: I don’t see my getting gigs in this country that will warrant multiple valve amps. etc. cranked. Dio/Campbell not exactly in the Top 20 at the moment!!! LOL!!!
But and after ALL of the above inane personal reflection and musing: it’ll all change once those Marshall Studio jobbies arrive on the floor of a dealer near me (if they haven’t already i.e. been too scared to check)!!! LOL!!! I know me too well!!! LOL!!!
Meh. For some reason or the other I’m starting to lean toward a good powerful PA (like my Alto) with either an Axe-Fx III or a Kemper in my next financial life (which hopefully is not too far away now again). Getting a bit tired of the hassle of amp. micing. and all that goes with it and not to mention “neighbor consideration”. My CODE amps., even although they are indeed modelling amps., only sound good cranked and micd. A bit odd coming from me now after all this time and money and effort spent getting “my” tone with my amps. Especially odd because I was even thinking along the lines of those new Marshall Studio jobbies (JCM800 of course) maybe sometime. But when I look at the trouble I go to with multiple amps. and what not to get a nice big stereo sound??? Hmmmnnn... Fun to play with and tweak and what not. But it’s cost me precious practice and playing time. And as the dude says in one of the videos above which is a good point: once things are dialed in on something like an Axe-Fx or Kemper then your sound is your sound and stays constant. With the way I do things now: slight variations in mic. placement and amp. volume etc. etc. etc. have me tweaking all over again. I may have to relocate shortly and I already know it’s gonna take me a month of Sunday’s to dial in “my” tone with my amps. again. And only then to maybe find out that my new neighbors are more full of sh*t than the current ones!!! LOL!!! And sadly: I don’t see my getting gigs in this country that will warrant multiple valve amps. etc. cranked. Dio/Campbell not exactly in the Top 20 at the moment!!! LOL!!!
But and after ALL of the above inane personal reflection and musing: it’ll all change once those Marshall Studio jobbies arrive on the floor of a dealer near me (if they haven’t already i.e. been too scared to check)!!! LOL!!! I know me too well!!! LOL!!!
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
I would strongly suggest the Eminence WheelHouse
http://www.eminence.com/guitar-bass/guitar/
I would strongly suggest the Eminence WheelHouse
http://www.eminence.com/guitar-bass/guitar/
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
There are really two issues at play here.
If you have a modeler and want to take advantage of the internal IRs within the modeler, your only real option is an FRFR solution with a Power Amp. I used an Axe Fx for years through a XiTone 1x12 Active Wedge which was incredible. Crystal clean, flat response and LOUD. No tone coloration at all.
That being said, if you have a modeler that you can turn off the Cab Sims/IRs, then you can use any guitar cab you want, but will need a Power Amp, as well. Some people prefer to use a real guitar Cab, but I found it much more useful to an FRFR and take advantage of the thousands of IR possibilities out there.
There are really two issues at play here.
If you have a modeler and want to take advantage of the internal IRs within the modeler, your only real option is an FRFR solution with a Power Amp. I used an Axe Fx for years through a XiTone 1x12 Active Wedge which was incredible. Crystal clean, flat response and LOUD. No tone coloration at all.
That being said, if you have a modeler that you can turn off the Cab Sims/IRs, then you can use any guitar cab you want, but will need a Power Amp, as well. Some people prefer to use a real guitar Cab, but I found it much more useful to an FRFR and take advantage of the thousands of IR possibilities out there.
dpaterson
New member
Re: The right speaker for digtal/ digital modelling amps..
The Kemper comes in two flavors i.e. with or without power amp. so there's that.
Yeh. Kinda the way I'm leaning now as per my post above. Feel a lot more comfortable too now that Celestion is producing their own IRs (and who, by the way, seem to be "in bed" with or are, at very least, punting the BIAS stuff now as a result).
The Kemper comes in two flavors i.e. with or without power amp. so there's that.
