The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
- Thread starter Luke Duke
- Start date
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
I figure it was part of the whole 70's 'we build rock'n'roll guitars now' Norlin thing---volutes, bigger bridge, metal instead of plastic on the keystones, triple ceramic magnet HB's, 300K pots, etc---if it's made of metal/weighs more/ cuts highs, it sounds better, right? I guess it might also be a little cheaper to drill a big hole for Nashville studs early in the production process as opposed to fitting the little ABR1 studs later by hand.
If we were having this same discussion in 1975, everyone would probably be touting brass hardware and Grovers...
I figure it was part of the whole 70's 'we build rock'n'roll guitars now' Norlin thing---volutes, bigger bridge, metal instead of plastic on the keystones, triple ceramic magnet HB's, 300K pots, etc---if it's made of metal/weighs more/ cuts highs, it sounds better, right? I guess it might also be a little cheaper to drill a big hole for Nashville studs early in the production process as opposed to fitting the little ABR1 studs later by hand.
If we were having this same discussion in 1975, everyone would probably be touting brass hardware and Grovers...
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
I've never done a direct comparison on Kluson Vs Grover or Schallers. You guys have any thoughts? What about the mini Grovers better than regular, worse?
As far as pickup covers go I think Lew is spot on. They attenuate the high end just a bit. Whether or not a person wants them depends if that extra bit of brightness hurts them. A guitar can only be as bright as it is, we can dull it down to an extent....at least that's my philosophy. I've kinda settled on warmer pups in mine because I prefer the sweeter tone to the crunchier tone
When you guys are picking them up in a store, what kind of accoustic or unplugged properties do you look for?
I always see if it is audible unplugged; as silly as that may sound. To me that is the way to know if you've got furniture, or an instrument....of course that is universally applicable. But anything in particular you look for on LPs?
Anybody got a R6 (or any other P90 equipped LP) that they'd like to share their specs? I'd be curious to see what type of P90 pup height you guys keep. My P90s are in a Godin LG and a ES-330 both not exactly the LP formula...especially the Gibson
Luke
I've never done a direct comparison on Kluson Vs Grover or Schallers. You guys have any thoughts? What about the mini Grovers better than regular, worse?
As far as pickup covers go I think Lew is spot on. They attenuate the high end just a bit. Whether or not a person wants them depends if that extra bit of brightness hurts them. A guitar can only be as bright as it is, we can dull it down to an extent....at least that's my philosophy. I've kinda settled on warmer pups in mine because I prefer the sweeter tone to the crunchier tone
When you guys are picking them up in a store, what kind of accoustic or unplugged properties do you look for?
I always see if it is audible unplugged; as silly as that may sound. To me that is the way to know if you've got furniture, or an instrument....of course that is universally applicable. But anything in particular you look for on LPs?
Anybody got a R6 (or any other P90 equipped LP) that they'd like to share their specs? I'd be curious to see what type of P90 pup height you guys keep. My P90s are in a Godin LG and a ES-330 both not exactly the LP formula...especially the Gibson
Luke
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Running across topics on the SD board, as well as other boards I thought it would be helpful to those buying a LP to outline differences in models/construction.
Les Paul Standard---This is the middle of the line in trim-wise with a bound top and fingerboard. This is the model most consider essential to achieving "THE" LP tone. The standard is going to have mahogany body, full thickness maple top, and rosewood fingerboard with trapezoid inlays. Depending on age they can have Kluson, or Grover tuners. The CS shop or original replicas will have Honduras mahogany, and a Brazillian rosewood fingerboard.
Les Paul Custom----This is the top of the line model with bound neck, top, back, and headstock. It has a full thickness maple top (unless you get a 57RI mahogany top)the body is a little thicker due needing flat edges for binding. It also has an Ebony fingerboard with mother-of-pearl block inlays, with matching mother-of-pearl double diamond on the headstock. They will usually have Grover or Schaller tuners. They usually tend to sound brighter than the standards
Les Paul Studio-----This model is considered to have the least trim of the "regular" LP models. It still has a maple top but is a bit thinner. The specs will still be very similiar to a standard. They usually tend to sound a bit darker than the standards.
Other folks with more to add and exact numbers feel free!
Luke
Running across topics on the SD board, as well as other boards I thought it would be helpful to those buying a LP to outline differences in models/construction.
Les Paul Standard---This is the middle of the line in trim-wise with a bound top and fingerboard. This is the model most consider essential to achieving "THE" LP tone. The standard is going to have mahogany body, full thickness maple top, and rosewood fingerboard with trapezoid inlays. Depending on age they can have Kluson, or Grover tuners. The CS shop or original replicas will have Honduras mahogany, and a Brazillian rosewood fingerboard.
Les Paul Custom----This is the top of the line model with bound neck, top, back, and headstock. It has a full thickness maple top (unless you get a 57RI mahogany top)the body is a little thicker due needing flat edges for binding. It also has an Ebony fingerboard with mother-of-pearl block inlays, with matching mother-of-pearl double diamond on the headstock. They will usually have Grover or Schaller tuners. They usually tend to sound brighter than the standards
Les Paul Studio-----This model is considered to have the least trim of the "regular" LP models. It still has a maple top but is a bit thinner. The specs will still be very similiar to a standard. They usually tend to sound a bit darker than the standards.
Other folks with more to add and exact numbers feel free!
Luke
Lee_M.
Brockburst Toneologist
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Goodness....I'll get back to this thread when I have my ducks in a row. Recent events with Gibson have led me to believe that it is the sum of the guitar (in totality) that will push you into the '58-'59 Les Paul area.
While all the aforementioned recommendations are great, I think you have to start with the guitar first (the actual wood) and evaluate its sonicness. You then have to add parts that work towards a desired tone; albiet Billy Gibsons, Duane et al.
I've tried everything Lew has discussed (including the Tom Holmes) and he is right - those parts make a big difference towards good tone with current production Les Pauls. However, there are some Historic LP's that have some counterintuitive parts that make them sound phenomenal.
Again, before I dive in, I think it begins and ends with wood. Either that sounds good or it doesn't....you can't fix it for any amount of money. If you have good wood, you can further shape the tone via pickups, but you can't use pickups to truly alter the tone of wood. If that was the case, then everyone would buy an Epiphone and load them up with custom MJ's pups. But, people are not doing that.
Know what I mean?
Goodness....I'll get back to this thread when I have my ducks in a row. Recent events with Gibson have led me to believe that it is the sum of the guitar (in totality) that will push you into the '58-'59 Les Paul area.
While all the aforementioned recommendations are great, I think you have to start with the guitar first (the actual wood) and evaluate its sonicness. You then have to add parts that work towards a desired tone; albiet Billy Gibsons, Duane et al.
I've tried everything Lew has discussed (including the Tom Holmes) and he is right - those parts make a big difference towards good tone with current production Les Pauls. However, there are some Historic LP's that have some counterintuitive parts that make them sound phenomenal.
Again, before I dive in, I think it begins and ends with wood. Either that sounds good or it doesn't....you can't fix it for any amount of money. If you have good wood, you can further shape the tone via pickups, but you can't use pickups to truly alter the tone of wood. If that was the case, then everyone would buy an Epiphone and load them up with custom MJ's pups. But, people are not doing that.
Know what I mean?
Last edited:
JeffB
Let it B
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Indeed wood is the KEY.
IMO, when shopping for a Paula you really need to pull down several. And be prepared to pull down ones that you may not like the color so much on. Or a Custom when you are looking at a Standard. Or a Deluxe or whatever. Cos ultimately if you get a tone monster, you will forget about the color and other minor things. There are mini replacements for Deluxes/DiMarzio P90 buckers that will fit, Custom winders who can get full size bucker tone in a mini etc. Anyhoo getting off topic.
Pull down a few and DON’T EVEN GET NEAR AN AMP.
Play each one acoustically for several minutes. Then go through each one playing some open chords for about 30 seconds then switch. You will find one or more that has a clear tone..it will be a little bright on top but alos full sounding..not thin and have good bass response. It will alos shake your guts/fretting hand the most (resonance)
You can do a headstock test too for sustain/resonance. Hold the guit by the top of the headstock with the pup side facing away from you. Reach around and just strum the guitar loudly. Keep your ear near the back side headstock….you will be able to feel/hear the resonance and sustain. The vibration and sustain will die off quickly on some, take awhile on others. Obviously you know which one is better.
Once you get 2 or 3 that are the best. Inspect the bridge area. On the production gibbys and their rocker neck joint, you will see A LOT that have the stop WAYY high. This is because the neck angle is not quite right, and putting the stop this high facilitates lower/easier action without the strings hitting the back of the bridge. This is not a deal killer, because you can always top-wrap and drop the stop if you’ve got a killer piece of wood (tonally). I’d rather do that than have a not so great piece of wood with a perfect neck angle.
Then plug in and play at a decent volume. Not Marshall stack levels or even gig levels. But loud enough to where you can’t really hear the unamplified strings much. Don’t worry so much about the amp or pickups or even minor setup issues. A good one will have a cello-like lower mid that just sings for lack of better word under gain.The notes will take off into (controlled) harmonic feedback easily. Bend some notes a full or 1.5 steps in the 12th/ /14th fret position with the neck pickup engaged on the high E, B, and G. If you are ready to release the bend before the note stops sustaining, you got some good wood
If they die off quick but it sustained well and resonated well acoustically it’s prolly a fret or setup issue. Something that can taken care of. Even if you don’t play with a lot of gain, these are good tests to do, IMO.
If you are looking at Standards (current ones) or older models with 498/490s, remember they are bright pickups with some harsh high end until they are adjusted properly. Take that into consideration. If the shop doesn’t have them set up well, I find BBs and 498s sound clearest and less harsh with the top of all the poles flush with the nickel covers. BBs sound better set lower than you may think, and 498s seem to sound better a little bit higher when the poles are flush. Again though just remember that pickups can be changed. If the acoustic tone is there, you know you can put whatever Duncans in it you like.
I have no empirical evidence to support this, but IME, the bigger the neck, the closer you will be to that classic Les Paul sound. Not every case, but apples/apples a 50s production or Historic neck is gonna sound better compared to a 60s or Classic profile. The thinner necked guitars seem to produce a more middy less balanced/clear sound. YMMV, but that’s what I’ve found in general.
Indeed wood is the KEY.
IMO, when shopping for a Paula you really need to pull down several. And be prepared to pull down ones that you may not like the color so much on. Or a Custom when you are looking at a Standard. Or a Deluxe or whatever. Cos ultimately if you get a tone monster, you will forget about the color and other minor things. There are mini replacements for Deluxes/DiMarzio P90 buckers that will fit, Custom winders who can get full size bucker tone in a mini etc. Anyhoo getting off topic.
Pull down a few and DON’T EVEN GET NEAR AN AMP.
Play each one acoustically for several minutes. Then go through each one playing some open chords for about 30 seconds then switch. You will find one or more that has a clear tone..it will be a little bright on top but alos full sounding..not thin and have good bass response. It will alos shake your guts/fretting hand the most (resonance)
You can do a headstock test too for sustain/resonance. Hold the guit by the top of the headstock with the pup side facing away from you. Reach around and just strum the guitar loudly. Keep your ear near the back side headstock….you will be able to feel/hear the resonance and sustain. The vibration and sustain will die off quickly on some, take awhile on others. Obviously you know which one is better.
Once you get 2 or 3 that are the best. Inspect the bridge area. On the production gibbys and their rocker neck joint, you will see A LOT that have the stop WAYY high. This is because the neck angle is not quite right, and putting the stop this high facilitates lower/easier action without the strings hitting the back of the bridge. This is not a deal killer, because you can always top-wrap and drop the stop if you’ve got a killer piece of wood (tonally). I’d rather do that than have a not so great piece of wood with a perfect neck angle.
Then plug in and play at a decent volume. Not Marshall stack levels or even gig levels. But loud enough to where you can’t really hear the unamplified strings much. Don’t worry so much about the amp or pickups or even minor setup issues. A good one will have a cello-like lower mid that just sings for lack of better word under gain.The notes will take off into (controlled) harmonic feedback easily. Bend some notes a full or 1.5 steps in the 12th/ /14th fret position with the neck pickup engaged on the high E, B, and G. If you are ready to release the bend before the note stops sustaining, you got some good wood
If they die off quick but it sustained well and resonated well acoustically it’s prolly a fret or setup issue. Something that can taken care of. Even if you don’t play with a lot of gain, these are good tests to do, IMO.If you are looking at Standards (current ones) or older models with 498/490s, remember they are bright pickups with some harsh high end until they are adjusted properly. Take that into consideration. If the shop doesn’t have them set up well, I find BBs and 498s sound clearest and less harsh with the top of all the poles flush with the nickel covers. BBs sound better set lower than you may think, and 498s seem to sound better a little bit higher when the poles are flush. Again though just remember that pickups can be changed. If the acoustic tone is there, you know you can put whatever Duncans in it you like.
I have no empirical evidence to support this, but IME, the bigger the neck, the closer you will be to that classic Les Paul sound. Not every case, but apples/apples a 50s production or Historic neck is gonna sound better compared to a 60s or Classic profile. The thinner necked guitars seem to produce a more middy less balanced/clear sound. YMMV, but that’s what I’ve found in general.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Pickups…I’m with Lew. For the 60s sound..A5. For the 50s sound A2. Don’t be afraid of the phrase “looser” bass or “buttery”. You may just find with A2, as I did, that’s *the* classic Les Paul sound you have in your head. "Looser" and "buttery" does not equate to “sloppy” or “farty”. It’s more of a feel thing than tone thing, though there is a difference tonally of course. If you are going to play a lot of Metal, just remember PAFs can handle a lot of gain and the compression they add is very desireable for many though they may think otherwise if they have not tried it. They will oversaturate quickly though and it’s a fine line. If you back off the gain a bit it may surprise you though how much bigger/fatter your tone is compared to a Distortion class pickup. And the further away you get from a PAF type EQ/Output, the further you get into “this doesn’t sound like a Les Paul anymore”. Those PAFs were designed around Pauls and ES’s etc, and they are as integral to classic LP tone as anything.
Pickups…I’m with Lew. For the 60s sound..A5. For the 50s sound A2. Don’t be afraid of the phrase “looser” bass or “buttery”. You may just find with A2, as I did, that’s *the* classic Les Paul sound you have in your head. "Looser" and "buttery" does not equate to “sloppy” or “farty”. It’s more of a feel thing than tone thing, though there is a difference tonally of course. If you are going to play a lot of Metal, just remember PAFs can handle a lot of gain and the compression they add is very desireable for many though they may think otherwise if they have not tried it. They will oversaturate quickly though and it’s a fine line. If you back off the gain a bit it may surprise you though how much bigger/fatter your tone is compared to a Distortion class pickup. And the further away you get from a PAF type EQ/Output, the further you get into “this doesn’t sound like a Les Paul anymore”. Those PAFs were designed around Pauls and ES’s etc, and they are as integral to classic LP tone as anything.
S
seafoamer
Guest
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Great! Now who's gonna give tips on "The Ultimate Mary Ford Tone"???
Great! Now who's gonna give tips on "The Ultimate Mary Ford Tone"???
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
I doubt you have the right equipment for that.
seafoamer said:
I doubt you have the right equipment for that.
JacksonMIA
Lemur-buckerologist
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
What was this doing on the second page?!!?!?!?!
What was this doing on the second page?!!?!?!?!
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
as far as pauls go, i wouldnt buy anything that isnt a cs, like others have said, its all about the wood and the cs stuff gets the best planks and no weight relief.
when i test drive guitars i play them unplugged for a while to see how they resonate, sustain and make sure that all the notes ring clearly. i hate dead spots. then ill plug the best two or three into amps, see which one sounds the best. check and adjust pup heights and then see which one sounds better.
my r6 is right around 8 lbs and i think the lighter ones sound bigger.
i like the lightweight tail pieces cause i think they sound better, a little smoother but with a nice attack. with the normal tailpiece the notes dont leap out of the guitar as fast but have more edge to them when they do.
500k cts pots for sure. my r6 didnt come with bumble bees but i put them in and there is a much smoother taper than with the old disks. usually i use orange drops. 0.02 is usually the best for my tastes anything more than that and the all the way down setting i dont find useful.
as far as tuners, mine have always had klussons except for my '79 which had grovers but that was a whole different beast (maple neck and such). i think the lighter weight tuners do have something to do with the tone. on strats i like heavier tuners, not so much on pauls.
for pups, im an alnico II man on almost everything. i think the pearly gates, antiquitys and seths are great for the vintage stuff. rolphs, holmes, wcr all make nice lp pups too. the burst bucker 1 and 2 are the best thing gibson has put out in a long time, dont really like the pros. probably the aII vs aV thing but the pros sound only ok. my favorite bridge bucker for a lp is my 9.4k antiquity thats slightly mismatched, a little extra push in the mids without going too over the top and a clear top end without being too bitey.
for p90s the stock gibson models are a little too dark in the neck and not quite thick enough in the mids in the bridge. once i get some more pe wire im gonna rewind both of them.
a good p90 in the bridge should have some teleish qualitys and have a nice bite when you want it. the neck should be smooth and warm.
i like the 50's mod on my neck pups, but not on the bridge. this seems to retain a little more highs as i turn the neck volume down and darken up the bridge pup a little more as i roll it down. the only time im using the bridge full up is for big solos. other than that i like having a little smoother tone.
as far as pauls go, i wouldnt buy anything that isnt a cs, like others have said, its all about the wood and the cs stuff gets the best planks and no weight relief.
when i test drive guitars i play them unplugged for a while to see how they resonate, sustain and make sure that all the notes ring clearly. i hate dead spots. then ill plug the best two or three into amps, see which one sounds the best. check and adjust pup heights and then see which one sounds better.
my r6 is right around 8 lbs and i think the lighter ones sound bigger.
i like the lightweight tail pieces cause i think they sound better, a little smoother but with a nice attack. with the normal tailpiece the notes dont leap out of the guitar as fast but have more edge to them when they do.
500k cts pots for sure. my r6 didnt come with bumble bees but i put them in and there is a much smoother taper than with the old disks. usually i use orange drops. 0.02 is usually the best for my tastes anything more than that and the all the way down setting i dont find useful.
as far as tuners, mine have always had klussons except for my '79 which had grovers but that was a whole different beast (maple neck and such). i think the lighter weight tuners do have something to do with the tone. on strats i like heavier tuners, not so much on pauls.
for pups, im an alnico II man on almost everything. i think the pearly gates, antiquitys and seths are great for the vintage stuff. rolphs, holmes, wcr all make nice lp pups too. the burst bucker 1 and 2 are the best thing gibson has put out in a long time, dont really like the pros. probably the aII vs aV thing but the pros sound only ok. my favorite bridge bucker for a lp is my 9.4k antiquity thats slightly mismatched, a little extra push in the mids without going too over the top and a clear top end without being too bitey.
for p90s the stock gibson models are a little too dark in the neck and not quite thick enough in the mids in the bridge. once i get some more pe wire im gonna rewind both of them.
a good p90 in the bridge should have some teleish qualitys and have a nice bite when you want it. the neck should be smooth and warm.
i like the 50's mod on my neck pups, but not on the bridge. this seems to retain a little more highs as i turn the neck volume down and darken up the bridge pup a little more as i roll it down. the only time im using the bridge full up is for big solos. other than that i like having a little smoother tone.
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Thanks Lee, plus it's just a stellar piece of wood(s). I just top wrapped the strings and it opened up the resonance even more than before.
Thanks Lee, plus it's just a stellar piece of wood(s). I just top wrapped the strings and it opened up the resonance even more than before.
Lee_M. said:
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
Ok there has been quite a bit of info in this already but I'll throw in my 2 cents.
The Les Paul has changed quite a bit over the years but IMO the ultimate Les Paul tone comes from a 50's burst...Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, BFG, Joe Perry, Jimmy Page...these are some amazing tones.
A Historic is the best way to get started short of a real 50's LP. Even if you go with a 57 GT reissue you'll still have the tone of a burst. You could go with a current Standard, Classic or even a Studio but you will need to make some changes and you'll still only be so close, and you'll have to change several things to only get so close. I feel like a Historic is pretty damn close and I have played a few real 50's bursts. The only thing that a new Historic doesn't have is a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard, I have never been able to compare a LP w/ and w/o a Brazilian board at the same time so I can't comment on that, however Lew has, and I trust his opinion.
Some of the things that make a Historic stand out when compared to a Standard are the light weight tailpiece, vintage style ABR-1 bridge, holly headstock overlay, the deep neck set tennon, the non weight relived body, vintage kluson keys, and the bigger neck...all these things do have an impact on the tone. On top of that the Historics get better wood that the "other" Les Pauls.
If you compare a Historic to a Standard the Standard seems to have tighter slightly brighter tone while the Historic seems to have a more open warmer tone. Also, the necks on Historics are larger…even larger than the “50’s” neck that you can get on a Standard. The larger neck adds some sustain and warmth to the tone.
As for Les Paul electronics, 500k CTS pots and high quality caps are a must...Historics come with these already (even though some guys don't like the taper of the pots) however a Standard/Classic/Studio comes stock with 300k pots, which really kill out some of the ton IMO.
If you want details on things like hardware look to Lew's posts. Things like tone pro's hard ware is great but it's not vintage, maybe better than vintage but the vintage style stuff has worked for guys for 50+ years with no problems. Grover, Schaller, Sperzel, etc keys are heavy and while some guys really like them I feel like they choke the headstock down and hamper sustain.
Now for the pickups, this applies to most if not ALL dual humbucker guitars, just keep in mind the construction of the guitar in question. Pickups play a huge roll in the tone of a good sounding piece of wood...good wood IS A MUST FOR GETTING A GOOD TONE...you can slap a killer pickup on a piece of plywood or other such junk and the tone is only gonna be so at best.
Ok there has been quite a bit of info in this already but I'll throw in my 2 cents.
The Les Paul has changed quite a bit over the years but IMO the ultimate Les Paul tone comes from a 50's burst...Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, BFG, Joe Perry, Jimmy Page...these are some amazing tones.
A Historic is the best way to get started short of a real 50's LP. Even if you go with a 57 GT reissue you'll still have the tone of a burst. You could go with a current Standard, Classic or even a Studio but you will need to make some changes and you'll still only be so close, and you'll have to change several things to only get so close. I feel like a Historic is pretty damn close and I have played a few real 50's bursts. The only thing that a new Historic doesn't have is a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard, I have never been able to compare a LP w/ and w/o a Brazilian board at the same time so I can't comment on that, however Lew has, and I trust his opinion.
Some of the things that make a Historic stand out when compared to a Standard are the light weight tailpiece, vintage style ABR-1 bridge, holly headstock overlay, the deep neck set tennon, the non weight relived body, vintage kluson keys, and the bigger neck...all these things do have an impact on the tone. On top of that the Historics get better wood that the "other" Les Pauls.
If you compare a Historic to a Standard the Standard seems to have tighter slightly brighter tone while the Historic seems to have a more open warmer tone. Also, the necks on Historics are larger…even larger than the “50’s” neck that you can get on a Standard. The larger neck adds some sustain and warmth to the tone.
As for Les Paul electronics, 500k CTS pots and high quality caps are a must...Historics come with these already (even though some guys don't like the taper of the pots) however a Standard/Classic/Studio comes stock with 300k pots, which really kill out some of the ton IMO.
If you want details on things like hardware look to Lew's posts. Things like tone pro's hard ware is great but it's not vintage, maybe better than vintage but the vintage style stuff has worked for guys for 50+ years with no problems. Grover, Schaller, Sperzel, etc keys are heavy and while some guys really like them I feel like they choke the headstock down and hamper sustain.
Now for the pickups, this applies to most if not ALL dual humbucker guitars, just keep in mind the construction of the guitar in question. Pickups play a huge roll in the tone of a good sounding piece of wood...good wood IS A MUST FOR GETTING A GOOD TONE...you can slap a killer pickup on a piece of plywood or other such junk and the tone is only gonna be so at best.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
There are loads of different pickup makers out there and lots of them do PAF style pickups. If you are looking for a vintage LP tone don't go out and buy a set of Super Distortions or a set of EMG's then wonder why your LP doesn't sound like Pearly Gates! As for pickup makers there are lots…Duncan, Di Marzio, Rio Grande, Fralin, Rolph, Lollar, Timbuckers, Tom Holmes, WRC, VooDoo, and believe me the list goes on! I have never bought any of the boutique pickups because IMO Duncan offers plenty of PAF type pickups that I’m quite happy with. Duncan offers several PAF type pickups…59, Seth, Antiquity, Pearly Gates, Alnico II Pro...most if not all of them have been discussed at great length and can be researched on this forum by using the search function
True PAF style pickups are around the 7-8k range however I have seen real 50's PAF as low as 6 or so and as hot at 10+. True PAF's are NOT wax potted and used either A2, A3, A4 or A5 magnets from 57 until late in 59 however by 60 they had pretty much switched to A5.
My fav Duncan PAF’s are the Antiquitys and the Pearly Gates that said Seth’s and 59’s are great too. The Alnico II Pro is like a modern PAF, it has a lot of the classic PAF character and tone with a modern twist. Also worth mention as good PAF style pickups are the Gibson Burstbucker 1’s, 2’s and 3’s. My R8 came with a 1 in the neck and a 2 in the bridge I found them to be very good sounding pickups but, just like real PAF’s a bit muddy and undefined under gain. I found the Antiquitys to be like a really great PAF…all of the classic PAF tone with no mud and with a very clean/articulate tone with amazing string to string balance.
I would say that anybody looking to research the construction and parts of 50’s LP’s would do them selves very well to get a copy of “The Beauty of the Burst” it is full of great info and tons of breathtaking pics!
All that said you don’t have to have a Les Paul to get a good LP tone. As Lew mentioned his Hamer had a tone he liked better than his R9. I have an old Yamaha SG 2000 (like the ones that Carlos Santana played in the early 80’s) that also has a great Les Paul style tone…a bit more modern (because of the Alnico II Pro neck and Custom Custom bridge) as well as the construction. I also have a Gibson Moderne and while it is not a Les Paul it has got a great bucker tone…it’s got a limba body and neck (which is the holy grail of tone woods IMO) and it’s loaded with a set of Pearly Gates pickups. There are lots of non Gibson LP’s that sound killer…Heritage, Tokai, Edwards, etc… It should also be mentioned that one of my favorite bucker tones of all time (and a tone that I thought was a Les Paul for a lot of years) is Jeff Beck on Blow by Blow with a 59 Telecaster loaded with a rewound) and hot rodded) set of PAF from a broken Flying V.
There are loads of different pickup makers out there and lots of them do PAF style pickups. If you are looking for a vintage LP tone don't go out and buy a set of Super Distortions or a set of EMG's then wonder why your LP doesn't sound like Pearly Gates! As for pickup makers there are lots…Duncan, Di Marzio, Rio Grande, Fralin, Rolph, Lollar, Timbuckers, Tom Holmes, WRC, VooDoo, and believe me the list goes on! I have never bought any of the boutique pickups because IMO Duncan offers plenty of PAF type pickups that I’m quite happy with. Duncan offers several PAF type pickups…59, Seth, Antiquity, Pearly Gates, Alnico II Pro...most if not all of them have been discussed at great length and can be researched on this forum by using the search function
True PAF style pickups are around the 7-8k range however I have seen real 50's PAF as low as 6 or so and as hot at 10+. True PAF's are NOT wax potted and used either A2, A3, A4 or A5 magnets from 57 until late in 59 however by 60 they had pretty much switched to A5.
My fav Duncan PAF’s are the Antiquitys and the Pearly Gates that said Seth’s and 59’s are great too. The Alnico II Pro is like a modern PAF, it has a lot of the classic PAF character and tone with a modern twist. Also worth mention as good PAF style pickups are the Gibson Burstbucker 1’s, 2’s and 3’s. My R8 came with a 1 in the neck and a 2 in the bridge I found them to be very good sounding pickups but, just like real PAF’s a bit muddy and undefined under gain. I found the Antiquitys to be like a really great PAF…all of the classic PAF tone with no mud and with a very clean/articulate tone with amazing string to string balance.
I would say that anybody looking to research the construction and parts of 50’s LP’s would do them selves very well to get a copy of “The Beauty of the Burst” it is full of great info and tons of breathtaking pics!
All that said you don’t have to have a Les Paul to get a good LP tone. As Lew mentioned his Hamer had a tone he liked better than his R9. I have an old Yamaha SG 2000 (like the ones that Carlos Santana played in the early 80’s) that also has a great Les Paul style tone…a bit more modern (because of the Alnico II Pro neck and Custom Custom bridge) as well as the construction. I also have a Gibson Moderne and while it is not a Les Paul it has got a great bucker tone…it’s got a limba body and neck (which is the holy grail of tone woods IMO) and it’s loaded with a set of Pearly Gates pickups. There are lots of non Gibson LP’s that sound killer…Heritage, Tokai, Edwards, etc… It should also be mentioned that one of my favorite bucker tones of all time (and a tone that I thought was a Les Paul for a lot of years) is Jeff Beck on Blow by Blow with a 59 Telecaster loaded with a rewound) and hot rodded) set of PAF from a broken Flying V.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
All that said
There are lots of great LP tones that have nothing to do with Humbuckers!
From 52-56 the Les Paul came loaded with P-90's and those guitars also sound great...P-90's have most of the girth of a bucker but with a "better" top end...they have a great, raw, cutting rock tone.
Also, Les Paul Customs from the 50's didn't have maple tops which makes them sound a bit darker, but they did have ebony fingerboards which does add a little zing...not as much as a maple top but a little. In pre 57 Customs the neck pickup is "like" a P90 but it is different as well...it's refered to as an "Alnico" neck pickup...it's a good bit brighter/cleaner that a stock P-90.
The Single cut/Arched top Les Paul was discontinued in 1960, in 1961 it was changed to the guitar we know as an SG today...SG's are much slimmer overall, have no maple top and are douible cutaway. They are a good bit brighter that a single cut Les Paul but can still sound very thick...listen to Clapton with Cream. Since the SG didn't come out until 61 and seeing that by 60 PAF had Alnico 5 magnets, most (I don't want to say all because you never know for sure) SG's had Alnico 5 pickups which is actually a great thing...the more solid bass of the Alnico 5 pickups helped give the SG a more solid tone.
The Single cut LP was "reissued" in 1968 in the form of a handful of black Customs but the twist is that the Custom now had a maple top (like a Standard) but it did keep the Ebony board of the 50's customs. In 1969 Gibson issued the Les Paul Deluxe, for a few months they were much like the Les Paul Gold Tops form the 50's but they had Epiphone Mini Humbuckers by 1970 the Deluxe had gotten a multi piece body (or pancake body) and by around 1974 (I think) they got a maple neck...these LP's are ofter very heavy and I myself have seen 70's Deluxes that weight 14 lbs! The Epiphone Mini's are not bad pickups but they do lack the girth of a fullsize bucker...they sound like a PAF on a low carb diet! The Les Paul "Standard" came back around 1974 (I think). The Standard of the 70's is a far cry from the LP Standard of today but the basics are there. As a general rule 70's LP's are simply not very good guitars...they are heavy, too bright, and don't sound very good na matter what you do to them...but there are a few good ones!
All that said
There are lots of great LP tones that have nothing to do with Humbuckers!
From 52-56 the Les Paul came loaded with P-90's and those guitars also sound great...P-90's have most of the girth of a bucker but with a "better" top end...they have a great, raw, cutting rock tone.
Also, Les Paul Customs from the 50's didn't have maple tops which makes them sound a bit darker, but they did have ebony fingerboards which does add a little zing...not as much as a maple top but a little. In pre 57 Customs the neck pickup is "like" a P90 but it is different as well...it's refered to as an "Alnico" neck pickup...it's a good bit brighter/cleaner that a stock P-90.
The Single cut/Arched top Les Paul was discontinued in 1960, in 1961 it was changed to the guitar we know as an SG today...SG's are much slimmer overall, have no maple top and are douible cutaway. They are a good bit brighter that a single cut Les Paul but can still sound very thick...listen to Clapton with Cream. Since the SG didn't come out until 61 and seeing that by 60 PAF had Alnico 5 magnets, most (I don't want to say all because you never know for sure) SG's had Alnico 5 pickups which is actually a great thing...the more solid bass of the Alnico 5 pickups helped give the SG a more solid tone.
The Single cut LP was "reissued" in 1968 in the form of a handful of black Customs but the twist is that the Custom now had a maple top (like a Standard) but it did keep the Ebony board of the 50's customs. In 1969 Gibson issued the Les Paul Deluxe, for a few months they were much like the Les Paul Gold Tops form the 50's but they had Epiphone Mini Humbuckers by 1970 the Deluxe had gotten a multi piece body (or pancake body) and by around 1974 (I think) they got a maple neck...these LP's are ofter very heavy and I myself have seen 70's Deluxes that weight 14 lbs! The Epiphone Mini's are not bad pickups but they do lack the girth of a fullsize bucker...they sound like a PAF on a low carb diet! The Les Paul "Standard" came back around 1974 (I think). The Standard of the 70's is a far cry from the LP Standard of today but the basics are there. As a general rule 70's LP's are simply not very good guitars...they are heavy, too bright, and don't sound very good na matter what you do to them...but there are a few good ones!
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone
I don't think of SGs are brighter -- just less bassy, less thumpy. I prefer a Les Paul with the mids boosted at the amp to an SG, because just to my ears most les pauls have a more complex sound than SGs.
I don't think of SGs are brighter -- just less bassy, less thumpy. I prefer a Les Paul with the mids boosted at the amp to an SG, because just to my ears most les pauls have a more complex sound than SGs.
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