The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Over and over I hear lightweight aluminum TP, and lightweight tuners. Never directly comparing lightweight tuners I can't comment on the difference; however I think the reason so many guys (myself included) prefer a bit lighter hardware is because the nature of a LP. They are a heavier than normal guitar that primarily uses a darker wood as the core of the guitar, which makes for a darker sound. Couple that to heavier hardware and you are going to get less resonance and "airiness" out of a guitar that does have the possibility.

For the longest time when I thought of great sounding LPs I'd think of Joe Walsh/James Gang and the Allman Bros (BFG goes without saying). In particular Rocky Mountain way and Whipping Post. In my mind those songs are fantastic examples of US guys showing what a LP can be. The greats mentioned beforehand are also great guides. I've also always been a fan of Eric Clapton's tone on "As my guitar gently weeps".

I'm still planning on getting you guys some 68/69 Deluxe specs. The reason I say that is simply because when we had my dad's guitar dated at Starz Guitars he said the serial number actual placed it as a 68/69 transitional guitar.

Luke

 

[jdm61]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

bit of trivia.....Tom Scholz played one of the 68-69 original spec goldtop Deluxes that he routed for full size buckers.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

bit of trivia.....Tom Scholz played one of the 68-69 original spec goldtop Deluxes that he routed for full size buckers.

I read an article where he said he had a pair of them. He said they were the only LPs that felt right in his hand.

I saw in one of them he had a DMZ Super Distortion in the bridge, and a P90 of some type in the neck.

Luke

 

[jdm61]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Tom was the first big guy i remember using and/or endorsing Dimarzios......I recall the other goldtop had DiMarzios in both positions.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Another thing that a few guys hit that I didn't go in depth with was pickups.

First off I'll say I haven't strayed out of the Duncan and Gibson territory with buckers. I think Christian did an excellent job of highlighting the PAFs in SDs line. I'm going to steal one of his phrases though and say the Alnico 2 Pro/Custom Custom and 59/Custom 5 are some of the best "modern " PAF tones. I use this term because they are very similiar to the originals....but at the same time distinctly different.

I would really like to pick up something like an R7 with some Seths to get an idea how those groundbreaking LPs sounded.

Luke

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Second page again?!?!!! Come on, guys. I know there's more of you out there that love your Les Pauls. Now get crackin'. I plan on using this one day.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

I figured that this was as good of a place as any to put my generic pickup breakdown, especially since we're talking about the guitar that humbuckers are associated with.

Antiquity---A pup that is hand made by Seymour or MJ that has been artificially aged. The magnet has been degaussed and the cover has been distresses along with the screws so as to appear vintage. Everything is done to make these pups as close to an original that you would buy from a collector that was out of a guitar that was played everyday and gigged with. They have complex mids and are smooth. They are available in A2 or A5 magnet varieties. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The 59---The 59 is the quintessential A5 PAF (patent applied for) pup. Imagine getting in a time machine and going back to 1959 and swiping a brand new A5 pup from the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo and bringing it forward to today. They have found most homes in many neck slots. It has symetrical coils and lots of quack. It has thumping bass, a scooped mid, and cutting highs. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Seth Lover---This pup is as true to the original as can be. This pup is unpotted and comes standard with a gold, or nickel pup cover. It has an A2 magnet and has good quack and fair mids. For this pup imagine going back in time to 1955 and grabbing one of the very first PAF's before they debuted in the LP's. This pup is warm and creamy, but can also get bright with the tone knob on 10. Vintage 2 Conductor Wire

The Pearly Gates---The PG is the hottest of the Duncan PAF line. It has some coil mismatch thing going on and an A2 magnet. The mismatched coils give this particular pup its rude personality. It has a frequency push in the Presence/Cut knob frequency band. This is the "Sizzle" PG owner talk about. It has the most mids of the Ducan PAF line and is also the hottest. Its patron is Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top. Standard 4 conductor Wire

78---The most angry of the SD PAF line. Some consider it the grail, others consider it un-useable. It is very chewy and can be bright in some guitars. It does a great job of overdriving an amp while maintaining touch sensitivity. If you are an "Atomic Punk" or a "Little Dreamer" this is the pickup for you. For the rest of us it gives us a pushed A2 based voice.
Standard 4 conductor wire

The Jazz---The jazz is the pup that bridges the gap between Vintage and Modern pups. Its output is at or around the vintage level. Don't let the name fool you this pup is very versatile and smooth or crunchy as the need arises. It has an A5 magnet and is very widely used in the neck slot. It is articulate regardless of the tuning as well. This pup negotiates cleans or overdrive very well. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

The Alnico 2 Pro---It is a modern take on the A2 PAFs. It has round bass and smooth treble, it also has lots of mids to make the guitar really sing. It will warm up the coldest or shrillest of guitars. The most well known Alnico 2 Pro user is Slash of Velvet Revolver and GNR. Standard 4 Conductor Wire

The Custom Series---The Custom Series is all one pup configuration but with different magnets. The coils are symmetrical and the pups come with Standard 4 Conductor wire

Custom---The Custom is billed as a PAF kicked up a few notches. This pup gets its aggressive edge from its Ceramic magnet. This pup has lots of grind with good treble and midrange. It also has ample bass for palm mute playing. If my memory serves me correctly it was Jason Becker's favorite pup.

Custom Custom---The Custom Custom is a midrange heavy pup that lends itself to leads and warming bright guitars. This pup gets its huge midrange from the Alnico 2 magnet. I has smooth bass and treble. Essentially it is an overwound A2 PAF. Tonally this pickup is going to take you straight to "Panama".

Custom 5---The Custom 5 is a pup with an EQ very identical to The 59. It has thumping bass, scooped mids, and cutting treble. Like the 59 it is a bright pup that will liven up dark guitar, but the bass can be overwhelming in a bassy guitar, or the the treble overwhelming in a trebly guitar.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

JB---The JB is in a class of its own. There is really no other pup like it. It has fair bass and lots of treble. This particular pup has a large upper mids spike that allow it to cut through the mix like no other. It can be heard on countless recording especially throughout the 80's. Lots of people like to pair it with a Jazz or 59 in the neck. In bright guitars it is usually soldered to a 250k pot just like the original Seymour made 30 years ago.

The Distortion---The same coil configuration as the JB, but instead of an Alnico 5 magnet SD uses an oversized ceramic magnet. This pup has lots of natural harmonics, and pinch harmonics are a breeze just like on the JB. Also it has a good amount of grind to it that makes it work very well for palm mute riffing as well. The distortion can sound bright in some guitars like the JB so get used to using your tone pot, or EQing your amp.

Alright we haven't heard from the modern tone seekers in force, so I'm just waiting.

Luke

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

I'm wondering, WHOSE lightweight tailpiece do you like for Les Pauls--I know the Gibson Historic ones are VERY expensive--are there any bargains out there in tail pieces?

Bill

PS--And I have to agree with you on the Brazilian RW boards. Even though I'm sure that I have much less experience than you on this matter--I've noticed that the Re-Issue Historics I've played with BRW boards all seemed to have something special going on.

And I cry everytime I think about all those Les Pauls and '50s Strats and Teles that were selling for $150-$200 in the Seattle pawn shops back in the days when I still didn't have a clue....WAAAAAH! :smack:

I use the Gotoh myself. My buddy Rondo compared the Gotoh to the Gibson Reissue on his Gibson Plaintop and found that the Gotoh was a little lighter than the Gibson. He weighed them both. He now uses the GOTOH on all of his LP's except the Plaintop which he uses the Gibson on. He thinks they all sound better than zinc, but isn't certain if the GOTOH aluminum or Gibson aluminum sound any differant from each other. I dunno either! The GOTOH aluminum is only $40 though and I do keep them in stock in both nickel or gold plating. Lew

 

[greendy123]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Anyone have thoughts on setting the stop tailpiece higher? I read in "How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great" by Dan Erlewine, that Albert Garcia said the making the strings in parallel allows more harmonics and overtones, but some sustain is lost. I guess that why people must be doing the wrap over the stop bar to get sustain and harmonics. I think we could use some more advice on p90s and tuners then we should be set to put this in the vault Scott.

 

[ParaGuitarMedic]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

WOw, threads like this are why I joined this forum.

 

[Stratsky]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

My 2 cents. I've owned two LP's in my time, a 68 LP Custom bought in 68 and my current LP Studio. When I think of great LP tone I think of that Custom.

 

[Guest]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Lots lots of great info... I read it along time ago but it was great to read it again. Should be in The Vault as someone pointed out. Definately worth that :bigthumb:

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Wow, my thread turned into a ZOMBIE!

P90 info.

Well my LP with P90's experience is much more limited.

A friend of mine has a 57 reissue Korina Jr with a single Dog Ear P90. Very warm, plucky, and biting all at once. A very VERY fat sounding guitar.

In the Duncan line I've dealt with the P90 Vintages and the P90 Customs.

The Vintage has a classic braided conductor cable and an A5 Magnet. It has a punchy nasal upper mids sound that we all know to be the definitive P90 tone. Its got a good bit of quack as well. The output of the neck pup is the same as my 64 330's. The Bridge pup is a decent bit more muscular though.

The Custom has a classic braided conductor cable and a dual ceramic magnets. It has a lot of output and harmonics. It gives a very thick sound and sounds very with overdrive.

A popular forum pairing of P90s is a a Vintage P90 in the neck and a Hot neck P90 in the bridge. I think Scott was one of the first guys to try the combo, and to great success.

Tuner recomendations are going to vary greatly. Most guys feel that to get the classic LP tone you need to have lightweight tuners. I've never A/B'ed tuners myself, so I can't comment much. On my LPs in the past I've had Grovers. My dad's old 69 deluxe has the light tuners and they are a bit less precise than my grovers, but I don't mind it.

Luke

 

[greendy123]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Tuner recomendations are going to vary greatly. Most guys feel that to get the classic LP tone you need to have lightweight tuners. I've never A/B'ed tuners myself, so I can't comment much. On my LPs in the past I've had Grovers. My dad's old 69 deluxe has the light tuners and they are a bit less precise than my grovers, but I don't mind it.

Luke

Well from what I have read lightweight tuners were worse back then, so many people switched to the grovers. Now the lighter tuners like the kluson deluxe are built better, work good, and still provides that vintage tone many people are looking for.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Well from what I have read lightweight tuners were worse back then, so many people switched to the grovers. Now the lighter tuners like the kluson deluxe are built better, work good, and still provides that vintage tone many people are looking for.

I was talking to a guy once at college who said he hated to think of all the 335s and Pauls he ruined installing grovers. LOL

There are quite a few guys who prefer modern tones, and higher output pups, I'd like to hear from you guys as well.

Luke

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Since this thread was started before any of us got our Brobuckers I think it would be beneficial to put a bit in this thread about them.

The Brobucker--- A Custom Shop pup which is was the product of the Forum. Seeing a hole in the SD output lineup many members thought that a more traditional looking/sounding PAF overwound to 10K pup would be the answer.

The specs were voted on by all who ordered the pups. They were
1. Appoximately 10K DC Resistance
2. Mismatched coils
3. 42 Gauge Wire (which happens to be the antiquity style)
4. Degaussed A5 Magnet
5. Light Potting

Outside of that a few specialty specs were specified Double Creme bobbins under a nickel cover, 4 conductor wire.

The end result was a pup that had the expressiveness, clarity, and (mojo) of a PAF pup with more output.

I would describe the EQ as having to be classified as having 5 bands instead of the regular 3 that SD uses

Highs------5
High Mids--7
True Mids--3
Low Mids--4
Lows------5

I'd almost say that this pup is like a cross between a JB and a C5, but Vintage-ized.

Luke

 

[shredaholic]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

vault?

 

[Truant]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Fantastic thread. Thanks

 

[TimmyPage]

Re: The Ultimate Les Paul Tone

Every Time I want to mod my Les Paul I go back to this thread - And I know this is a gigantic bump but... awesome freakin' thread and this seriously needs vaulted for extra ease.