think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

[PVFan]

one is a '57 tweed deluxe

one is a '65 twin custom 15

1.) I played the 57 w/ a Celestion Blue inside. I liked it enormously. The touch sensitivity is the important part I want to have. But I don't know if that came more from the killer speaker or the way the amp is?

2.) listen to the percussivity of the bass notes in this quick, sweet little clip of the Custom 15. He's barely touching them, yet they thump, cut, and are over. I bet a lot of that is due to the 15", right?



building myself due to $$$, otherhow I'd just buy one of everything and sell what turns out not to be my favorite.

So since I want 1.) the touch sensitivity, and 2.) the percussivity, I thought I would build a simple 112 cube for a Celestion Blue (or similar, like a Weber Blue Dog) and ANOTHER cube with a 15" speaker like the one inside the Custom Twin. Depending on venue or mood I could select either cube or both of them.

thoughts?

I don't want to tackle building a Twin clone, but a 5e3 Tweed circuit would be easy to build, I figure, since there are only like 8 components inside. I know people here advocate Mission amps and their 5e3 kits but they seem to be out of stock, AND, I figure it would be a lot cheaper and more therapeutic to just go down to the elex supply and buy the components and get the transformers from my amp techs, assuming they have the right ones. So I guess I'm asking about transformers for this thing, too. And I'm wondering if I can build essentially a 5e3 except have a different power design.

thoughts?

I figure this is all chump change except for the price of speakers and transformers.

thoughts?

please help me here guys, this is one of 2 things I'm hangin onto. Oh yeah -- what's the deal with the mic inputs on the 57 Deluxe? Can I plug a mic and a strat in at the same time? Can I jump mic and instr inputs and use both volumes for one signal? If I head down to the snootiest espresso shop and sit in the corner with my 5e3 and my strat, how quickly will the tip jar fill up? what if I don't sing, would that help?

 

[Baltar]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Hi PVFan!

If you haven't ever built an amp before, you should start something basic.
The Tweed Deluxe is imo a good start and a thankful project. You can get
started fast and it will be a good reference for speaker/tube/etc swaps for ever.
But there are two facts to keep in mind...
-DIY for saving $$$ is the wrong motivation (and is often w/o success)
... saving on build material will end up in buying them twice
-even more important: teach yourselv HV safety - this can't be said enough
... some of those tips can save your life ... http://aikenamps.com/SafetyTips.html

I built a Twin as well. I love this amp, despite it turned out to be much too
loud for my needs. Some builders run into ground hum issues, caused by
the reverb circuit - if you're unlucky, you may require professional help
to get rid of it.
Btw. i got rid of my 15" (Cali15) and use two 12"(mix) again->much more versatile

please help me here guys, this is one of 2 things I'm hangin onto. Oh yeah -- what's the deal with the mic inputs on the 57 Deluxe? Can I plug a mic and a strat in at the same time? Can I jump mic and instr inputs and use both volumes for one signal?

Yes you can plug in two guitars, or a guitar and a mic at the same time.
Connecting the channels for more gain and variety is what most people do
with their 5e3s.

If I head down to the snootiest espresso shop and sit in the corner with my 5e3 and my strat, how quickly will the tip jar fill up? what if I don't sing, would that help?

depends on how good or how bad your play is :naughty:

cheers, B

 

[jeremy]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

a vocal mic into the 5e3 (or any guitar amp) isnt going to sound good.

it doesnt make sense to cheap out on componants, how much are going to save? cant be much. the chassis, tubes and transformers are the bigger expenses but even the small stuff adds up. if you are going to spend the time to built an amp, do it right.

 

[Vincent Vespa]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Whichever one you decide, let me know... I want to make one, too!

 

[Curly]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

-DIY for saving $$$ is the wrong motivation (and is often w/o success)

I agree. Build it 'cause you want to build one.
Otherwise, buy used.

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Hi Baltar, I've worked around high voltage a lot, it was my career for a time, and I'm scared to death of electricity. Rubber gloves for this kid. Too careful, ok?

Dudes, I'm not cheaping out on anything. The 57 I played was 3000 Goddam dollars, U.S., and it has EIGHT COMPONENTS INSIDE. I think I can beat that figure.

There is a talkative old ex-Hollywood AV wizard here with an elex supply store. He has always carried great stuff and will know what I need if he doesn't have it. My amp techs carry transformers and so on. I asked them if they could build me one, and they said it would be far cheaper for me to acquire the parts and put it together ... and then have them "fix my work." Lots of people have suggested I build a 5e3. Even the salesmen at my favorite guitar store. But maybe they just wanted me to leave. But none of these people have a forum -- oh, here's one.

So if we're done asking why Baby is doing this, can we get to the actual help? I figure it will also be therapeutic and I will learn A LOT and I may even become a builder. There are a lot of reasons for this, we don't have the time or internet space; I can't type all there is.

Buncha amp shrinks. Let's get down to the nitty-gritty now, shall we?

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

never should have said "save money", cripes.

 

[tonefreak1527]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Try a priceton reverb

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

what the fuk for?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

There are more than 8 parts...building an amp, even a simple amp is not as easy as one might think and the truth is this...even with top quality parts a crappy build WILL result in crappy results...

In the tweed deluxe vs BF TR issue you have to figure that out on your own...

The magic in the 57 amp you played is mostly the amp and partly the speaker but you can have both...just put a celestion blue in your clone...

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

a few more than 8 parts, okay, but I figure if I can fix an oxygen generator and an atmosphere analyzer that uses mass spectrometry as its theory of operation I can probably solder em up and build a pine or birch-ply box for a speaker to sit in, and hopefully it won't be too crappy that my techs can't fix it up in an hour or 2 of labor, vs. 15 hours if I asked them to build it for me. I think I will just go ahead and build a 5e3 and a little cube with a Celestion Blue to start, maybe another cube later with a 15", exactly like I was thinking before I started 2 threads about it. Then, after playing and listening to it, I will have a better idea of what to ask people, if anything. I promise to be careful with electricity and to not cheap out on components, and I will get a good soldering iron, and good flux. Thanks everyone.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Jeebus, you'd think he asked how to build a space shuttle.

I'm with you on this dude, should be fairly easy to beat $800 bucks for a kit and definitely better than 3K, that's just ridiculous. I wouldn't pay that much for a NOS Mark II Simulclass.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Building a kit Plexi or Tweed Deluxe is really no more difficult than building kit Champ. It just takes longer. It takes longer to wire up several tube sockets than it does two or three, and it takes longer to wire up several pots and switches than it does one or two, but the proccess is the same. The key is to take your time and do a good job as your doing it -one step at a time.

It helps to get a kit that is well organized with quality componants, rather than one that requires you to engineer some of it, and to sqrounge up key parts yourself.

Once you have done a few kits or once you have fiddled around enough inside a SF Fender or something, then you can start branching out and experimenting with your own ideas, or building less common designs.

Once you have done it a few times it gets a bit addicting.

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Jeebus, you'd think he asked how to build a space shuttle.

I'm with you on this dude, should be fairly easy to beat $800 bucks for a kit and definitely better than 3K, that's just ridiculous. I wouldn't pay that much for a NOS Mark II Simulclass.

I like to act the fool and crack wise, non-stop. Serious stuff from me catches some people here off guard. They're just lookin out for me and don't want me to die.

I guess I was just asking if I'm going in the right directions and my questions are vague and numerous and not really even questions in the first place, just whaddya think? and they said so.

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

found more threads on the Fender Forum on this exact subject than I can shake a stick at

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Check out some of this guys build designs . They are exact replicas, yet he will add some stuff, like tone controls. Look to be very well made too!
To me, the magic in old amp tone is in the old hand wound Transformers. In my estimation, even Heyboar , Merc. Mag. and others just don't sound nearly as great as the old fender originals. If you can, source the old trannys, they are available, and probably just about the same price.
Theres a debate also between using carbon comps and metal films..stuff like that, but people seem to think carbon comps are best for certain places in the signal path and metal films or polyfilms in others.
regrading percussiveness and touch sensitivity, in my estimation, percussiveness comes more in speaker size than anything. 10's in an open backed 4x10 cabinet will be the most percussive-nothing comes close. Not at least at any rational volume I've heard, and trust me, I get loud with 4x12 's, 2x12 porteds and even 1x 15's( which can be evry precussive),yeah...I egt loud .. REAL loud, and the $x10 open backed is king of percussion as far as I know, but Ive never had a stadium set up with 4x12's or anything Maybe you should think about a Mojo or Weber Super Verb kit?
And as far as touch sensitivity, thats mainly the speaker IMO>< although the amp can also be instrumental, but generally that type of amp feel is known more as "responsiveness" than touch sensitivity.
Eminence touts "touch Sensitivity" as one of the selling points of various speakers they sell. I can't recall right now which ones- I think the Swamp Thang for one. The G12T-75 Celestion seems very touch sensitive to me.
Anyway, bear in mind Silverface and new Fender is very sparkly sounding , Blackface is sweet, deep and complex and not so sparkly ( except mayvbe for the Deluxe , Princeton and twin, IDK) and Tweed is great and classic distortion sounding , although personally I would need more than one 5e3 to get the SPL I need.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Sorry I forgot the link to the guys amps he builds and sells, and also, I don't think original tweed Fender transformers are an option pricewise. I know the blackface ones are though.;

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e1105...em=250674622085&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

found more threads on the Fender Forum on this exact subject than I can shake a stick at

Yeah well, be carefull there at TFF. I was a member of that forum for years till some stupid little punk upstart 20 year old still wet behind the ears started trying to tell me about old fender Tweeds and what they need to be like. I tried to say look dude, Iwe must have 10 old fender original 50's tweeds in our studio , and your trying to tell me what a replica needs to be like? Pshaaaaw. Lots of guys there buying fenders cause there hero palyed one, and they don't want or need to know anything else about them- modifications critcisms or anything else..except what Fender Corp. feeds them. Lots of guys doing stupid backing track jams ( like some here ) thinking they are hot squat.
I hate stupid computer backing track jams. I'll never listen to one. They are stupid as hell> write your own stuff.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

good luck with the tweed deluxe. Have you checked out ceriatone.com?

 

[PVFan]

Re: think I'm gonna build a Fender clone and there are 2 amps I have in mind

Yeah well, be carefull there at TFF. I was a member of that forum for years till some stupid little punk upstart 20 year old still wet behind the ears started trying to tell me about old fender Tweeds and what they need to be like. I tried to say look dude, Iwe must have 10 old fender original 50's tweeds in our studio , and your trying to tell me what a replica needs to be like? Pshaaaaw. Lots of guys there buying fenders cause there hero palyed one, and they don't want or need to know anything else about them- modifications critcisms or anything else..except what Fender Corp. feeds them. Lots of guys doing stupid backing track jams ( like some here ) thinking they are hot squat.
I hate stupid computer backing track jams. I'll never listen to one. They are stupid as hell> write your own stuff.

ha ha ha ha youth. I wish you would type more things in amp room threads.

you were generalizing about "Blackface" and "Tweed" sounds in the exact way I've been searching and not finding. I thought those terms had more to do with certain control layouts than sound. I wish folks would tell me more about what those terms have come to mean.