Time to make a cab decision

[ratherdashing]

Alright, here's the deal:

My amp is a Mesa Stiletto Ace head. This is my first ever head/cab type of setup. The Stiletto kicks total ass, and I love it.

When I bought it, I got a little Traynor closed-back 1x12 cab with a Vintage 30 in it with the idea that I would use it on there for practice, and either borrow or rent bigger cabs as needed. This was back in April when I first started out with my current band. I also lived in a different house at that time, where I was able to play through my Stiletto with the volume down. It actually sounds really good through that little Traynor cab.

Fast forward to today. I am finding that the spare 4x12 cab in the rehearsal space (which I think is a Marshall 1960A clone of some kind) is not well suited for the Stiletto. This cab gives the Stiletto a shrill top end and weak mids, which I do not get with the Traynor cab. Knowing this, I rented a Marshall 1960A for a big party gig we were playing, and experienced the same thing. It doesn't sound terrible, just not excellent, and I see no reason to put up with an $1,800 amp sounding less than excellent.

The problem I face is that the 1960A is pretty much the only thing available on the rental market as far as big cabs go. This means I either have to put up with less than ideal tone when I play a decent-sized venue, or buy a bigger cab that doesn't suck. I think the choice is pretty clear.

That leaves me with the question: what cab should I invest in? Do I need a 4x12, or would it make more sense given my playing situation to get a 2x12? We play bars and other small venues 90% of the time, but once in a while we will get an outdoor or big venue gig since we do corporate and parties.

I would be trading in my 1x12 for whatever I end up getting, and it will not be used for home practice (the Pod works fine for that). Here are the models I currently have my eye on:

Mesa Recto vertical 2x12: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar Cabinets/RECTOcabs/Recto2x12V-LG.htm
There's one with a gold grille at L&M Vancouver, which would look awesome with the gold on the Stiletto head.

Mesa Recto horizontal 2x12: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar Cabinets/RECTOcabs/Recto2x12H-LG.htm
L&M North Van has a couple used ones for sale.

Mesa Stiletto horizontal 2x12: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar Cabinets/StilettoCabs/Stiletto2x12-LG.htm
Never seen one of these IRL

Mesa Stiletto 4x12: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar Cabinets/StilettoCabs/Stiletto4x12TRsl-LG.htm

I'm also open to Avatar or similar, but if the cost isn't going to be too different I'm inclined to just go with the Mesa. They're really good cabs.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

I think the Mesa open/closed and a
a 2x12 will give you more of the same as the 1960 4x12 but just less SPL.

Have you considered 10's?
I had a small closed back 2x10 cabinet that really sounded excellent and way better when compared to the larger volume 2x12.
I myself am very interested in a 4x10 for a specific amp headi have..

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Ever consider Ear Candy? Mine sounds loads better than any mesa 212 I've tried.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Mesa Recto (hoz) is fine cab. It will pump out a ton of low end if necessary. And you can stand it on either end if you want to. It's a bit heavy but them's the breakes.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

uhh well the 1960a has g12t75's, so expecting it to sound like a v30 loaded cab doesn't really make sense

you can get an avatar 4x12 with v30's for $468 including shipping, which is cheap as eff, so i'd go that route

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

I love my verticle Recto 2x12. Keep in mind, these are 24" wide, so a wider head may not be safe riding on top of it in the future. I sold the crispy V30's out of mine, and put an EVM12L in the top, and an Emi Swamp Thang in the bottom. It holds together so well @ 50 watts, I'm actually thinking about venting the rear of the cab with a smaller sheet of plywood. This should open up the sound nicely.

 

[Rowan]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

uhh well the 1960a has g12t75's, so expecting it to sound like a v30 loaded cab doesn't really make sense

you can get an avatar 4x12 with v30's for $468 including shipping, which is cheap as eff, so i'd go that route

Avatar really is the way to go. Solid construction and sound at an excellent price with a big selection of speakers.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

....... This cab gives the Stiletto a shrill top end and weak mids, which I do not get with the Traynor cab. Knowing this, I rented a Marshall 1960A for a big party gig we were playing, and experienced the same thing. ..........
cabs.

That pretty much describes how many of us hear the G12T75, and is the reason so many of us hate them in a 4x12.

I would go with one of the Mesa 2x12's with V30's if you buy a cab, as long they don't cost too much. You can taste test them at the guitar shop to know if that's really what you want, and you don't have to go through the hassle of ordering and shipping. However, if the cost is significantly more than Avatar, then the Avatar is the way to go. If you go with the Avatar then I would probably go for a 2x12 with a V30 and an G12H30 mixed. Also it might be good to get the broke in versions.

You won't really want a 4x12 for most club gigs, because it will cause problems with some club owners, soundmen, some bandmates, patrons who want to talk on phones, and so forth. Just based on the reputation and the look, people will automatically think it's too loud. So going with a 2x12 for now is probably the better plan. For outdoors and large enough rooms nothing really beats a good 4x12. Nonetheless a 2x12 will handle most of those situations okay and there's always mic'ing up. Ideally you would eventually want a 4x12 in addition to a 2x12, but for now go with a 2x12.

When renting a Marshall 4x12 try to get the 1960Vintage with V30's if you can instead of the regular 1960A that usually have the 75's.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

If you can I would take your amp along to a store and try some cabs... especially if you want a Mesa cab which makes sense. At the end of the day most amp manufacturers design their cabs to suit the voicing of their amps.... I found this out with my amps which are Cornford. I had a Marshall 4 x 12 with Greenbacks which did sound darn good. BUT I sold it 'coz I wanted a Mesa 2 x 12 recto with V30's.... not a good choice for me. In isolation it sounded great, but when playing in the band it just got lost in the mix unless I was monsterously loud and it was VERY directional... If I wasn't standing directly in front of it I could not hear it! So, sold it and got a Mesa Tall 4 x 12, again with V30's. Believe it or not I had the same problem? So then I bought a hand made solid Mahogany 4 x 10... fantastic cab. Celestion G10's, ported back and just superb..., but too nice to just throw about. Then I got a Cornford 4 x 12... I really took a chance with this 'coz I thought my problem was with the V30's in the Mesa cabs. Anyway, it's a pine cab and it's just awesome with my amps. I really thought V30's suck due to the problems with the Mesa cabs... but I think they are designed to be big and dark sounding... hence the signature Mesa recto sound. The build quality of the Mesa cabs was very good, nicely finished... but holy cow they were heavy... again, I guess that's part of their sound, solid construction and LOTS of Baltic Birch. Since having had all these cabs (I've also got an old '70's Orange 4 x 12 with Greenbacks) I've come to the conclusion that solid or rather real wood boxes make for better tone... (remember that although ply is very strong it does consist of a high percentage of sound deadening GLUE or RESIN) for me at least. They seem to enhance the amps sound, just like this theory about guitar woods and resonance, my experience is that it's the same for speakers boxes. Just my personal view.

Sorry for all that, but I'd rather tell you of my woes as in addition to wasting time, I shelled out alot of money and lost on most! So, as I say I would try the matching cabs for your amp first and then take it from there! All the best.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

........Then I got a Cornford 4 x 12... Anyway, it's a pine cab and it's just awesome with my amps....... Since having had all these cabs (I've also got an old '70's Orange 4 x 12 with Greenbacks) I've come to the conclusion that solid or rather real wood boxes make for better tone... (remember that although ply is very strong it does consist of a high percentage of sound deadening GLUE or RESIN) for me at least. They seem to enhance the amps sound, just like this theory about guitar woods and resonance, my experience is that it's the same for speakers boxes. Just my personal view.

.

I agree with that. I've built a few home made cabs over the years and the solid wood ones sound better. A particular V30 sounds fantastic through a particular solid wood 1x12.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Marshall 1960's are loaded with celestion 75's... which I find to be bright, scratchy & rather scooped sounding so that most likely explains that...

The Boogie 4x12 cabs have a unique sound to them... more bottom end & depth then a Marshall or similar. I'd hunt around for a used cab, either 2x12 or 4x12 depending on what you want to carry around and put in the speakers you want, or buy a couple sets & try some things until it speaks. My preference is for a 2x12 cab... I find that in 90% of gigging situations a 4x12 projects too much & too far so no matter what its' always too loud. Except for me on stage, because of the projection it blows right past me so I can never hear it...

Hence a vicious cycle of volume...

And they barely fit in my car. hahaha

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Ever consider Ear Candy? Mine sounds loads better than any mesa 212 I've tried.

I love the look of the Ear Candy cabs. Glad to hear you like yours. What speakers are in it?

Mesa Recto (hoz) is fine cab. It will pump out a ton of low end if necessary. And you can stand it on either end if you want to. It's a bit heavy but them's the breakes.

Big low end is nice, but I'm more concerned about mids and highs, since that's what most cabs seem to suck at. Glad to hear you like the Recto 2x12 though ... there are a couple used ones at a store near me.

uhh well the 1960a has g12t75's, so expecting it to sound like a v30 loaded cab doesn't really make sense

you can get an avatar 4x12 with v30's for $468 including shipping, which is cheap as eff, so i'd go that route

Where did I say that I expected a 1960A to sound like a V30 loaded cab? I really didn't know what it was going to sound like TBH.

My one complaint about Avatar is that their 4x12's don't have an angled baffle for the top 2 speakers. I'd at least like a couple of the speakers to point at my head instead of my ankles and butt. Plus, I'm not even sure I want a 4x12.

I love my verticle Recto 2x12. Keep in mind, these are 24" wide, so a wider head may not be safe riding on top of it in the future. I sold the crispy V30's out of mine, and put an EVM12L in the top, and an Emi Swamp Thang in the bottom. It holds together so well @ 50 watts, I'm actually thinking about venting the rear of the cab with a smaller sheet of plywood. This should open up the sound nicely.

Wow, for a cab you claim to love, you're sure doing a lot of mods to it

I actually measured the Stiletto and the feet are exactly 23" apart. That should be fine.

That pretty much describes how many of us hear the G12T75, and is the reason so many of us hate them in a 4x12.

I would go with one of the Mesa 2x12's with V30's if you buy a cab, as long they don't cost too much. You can taste test them at the guitar shop to know if that's really what you want, and you don't have to go through the hassle of ordering and shipping. However, if the cost is significantly more than Avatar, then the Avatar is the way to go. If you go with the Avatar then I would probably go for a 2x12 with a V30 and an G12H30 mixed. Also it might be good to get the broke in versions.

You won't really want a 4x12 for most club gigs, because it will cause problems with some club owners, soundmen, some bandmates, patrons who want to talk on phones, and so forth. Just based on the reputation and the look, people will automatically think it's too loud. So going with a 2x12 for now is probably the better plan. For outdoors and large enough rooms nothing really beats a good 4x12. Nonetheless a 2x12 will handle most of those situations okay and there's always mic'ing up. Ideally you would eventually want a 4x12 in addition to a 2x12, but for now go with a 2x12.

When renting a Marshall 4x12 try to get the 1960Vintage with V30's if you can instead of the regular 1960A that usually have the 75's.

Good tips - thanks. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about 75's. I will check around to see if anyone has a Mesa 4x12 or a Marshall 1960AV in their rental inventory, and focus on testing out 2x12's for purchase.

Marshall 1960's are loaded with celestion 75's... which I find to be bright, scratchy & rather scooped sounding so that most likely explains that...

The Boogie 4x12 cabs have a unique sound to them... more bottom end & depth then a Marshall or similar. I'd hunt around for a used cab, either 2x12 or 4x12 depending on what you want to carry around and put in the speakers you want, or buy a couple sets & try some things until it speaks. My preference is for a 2x12 cab... I find that in 90% of gigging situations a 4x12 projects too much & too far so no matter what its' always too loud. Except for me on stage, because of the projection it blows right past me so I can never hear it...

Hence a vicious cycle of volume...

And they barely fit in my car. hahaha

Thanks Moose ... I think you're right on the money, and your experience with 4x12's at gigs mirrors mine.

I'm going to rent a Mesa Recto horizontal 2x12 for my gig on Saturday and see how that goes. It will be a very good try-before-I-buy exercise. I really dig the look of the vertical 2x12, but it's not available to rent or buy used, so it will be a bit expensive. I do want to try it out though just to see how it differs from a horizontal 2x12.

I'm still open to opinions on what to buy, so keep them coming.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Hmmm
Well you would be happy with the new Orange HP 8...G12K100s in it.
Nice tight ,full-ranges sound with no bumbs ,nice tight and huge bottom.
Or try to find an old Mesa 2X12 with EVM12Ls...Man that's the best sounding production cab for my ears!

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Ref the Mesa 2 x 12 Recto horizontal cab I had, whilst I did have it I prefered standing it on its side... when it was horizontal it was just too low to the ground to really hear.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

Ref the Mesa 2 x 12 Recto horizontal cab I had, whilst I did have it I prefered standing it on its side... when it was horizontal it was just too low to the ground to really hear.

I will probably be putting it on a stand.

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

I love the look of the Ear Candy cabs. Glad to hear you like yours. What speakers are in it?

I've got an Eminence wizard and a Swamp Thang in there. Honestly, it's my secret weapon. I pull it out of my trunk, and a dude will say "oh, look at the man with the small cab, hahahahahaha". Then I plug it in and play an E5, and he'll scramble to find a bucket to contain the melted mess that was once his face.

 

[Karmadog777]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

:32:http://www.earcandycabs.com/products.php?req=read&product_id=33

http://www.earcandycabs.com/products.php?req=read&product_id=33

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

......

My one complaint about Avatar is that their 4x12's don't have an angled baffle for the top 2 speakers. I'd at least like a couple of the speakers to point at my head instead of my ankles and butt.....

I usually prefer straight front cabs. I think sometimes those angled top speakers can contribute to ice pick in the ear sydrome. However, the angled ones do look better in many cases.

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

HAH! Ratherdashing, per middle of post #12...I now see your point!

When I bought the vertical Recto, I had the EVM12L already. I had heard about the famous V30 crispiness, and it was so. I hated it, although I know my ears have been rocked by them when other people have used them. I like the EVM tone, so the Swampy added for the floor.

I missed the open-ness of the EVM12L in an open cab. I think I would even love a rear vented cab more!

The EVM runs 100db/Watt, and the Swampy runs 102db/Watt. No matter the efficiency, the tone balance is good and heavy.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Time to make a cab decision

What speakers are easily available to you guys up there? Can you get hold of some Eminence? I think the Ace is one of the better Boogies. Would be nice if you could get a 2x12 with some Emi Private Jack, Wizard, Governor, Tone Spotter, Tonker, Texas Heat. Just something decent to give your head a fighting chance. Anything but those dreadful T-75 Celestions.
But really, what can a Canadian get his hands on as far as raw speakers are concerned???
Do any of these guys ship up your way?
http://www.eminence.com/guitar.asp?speaker_size=12
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/