Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

[frankfalbo]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Over the years I've noticed that the 6V6 is among the most responsive to tube changes. I've heard 6V6 amps go from total crap to great and back again just by choosing a different tube. Most tube power sections have a more subtle, nuanced reaction to different tubes, so you may like one and dislike the other. But with all the 6V6 amps I've played the tube type seemed to be a "make or break" deal. I don't know if anyone else has experienced the same thing, but it could account for some saying a 6V6 amp was flubby. I mean, 6V6's can get flubby regardless, but sometimes the right tube keeps it usable, instead of out of control.

As for low watt amps, I've gigged with an H&K Blues Master, which is pretty champy and been satisfied. If the amp isn't trying to fill the room, but rather for your monitoring and micing, then you'll be able to use a 5-20 watter for sure, but that's when you might not want to blast a 6V6. I find the EL84 less fatiguing when pushed hard.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

any suggestions for non-flubby 6v6s? what brand?

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

any suggestions for non-flubby 6v6s? what brand?

For years I had NOS JAN Phillips 6V6's in my Princeton. I never noticed any flubby-ness from them? But they broke up a Lil' harsh. I've since replaced them with JJ's. The JJ's breakup just right, But YES! I do notice some Inherent flubby-Ness.:smack: To the point where I have replaced the coupling cap from my Pre-amp to PI from a .022mF to a .0047mF to try to filter out some low end.:13:

 

[Mincer]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

any reviews on the EH 6v6s?

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

any reviews on the EH 6v6s?

I'd also be interested in the new Tung-Sol 6V6 reveiws?

 

[missionamps]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Right Erik! The trick is using preamp tube(s) with less gain and similar tube tonality of a 12AX7 (the 12AY7) and then setting up the two preamp stages a bit "stagger tuned" (slightly diiferent frequency response per stage so that not one stage is doing all the work...(think orchestral) and then with the lower gain of the first two stages...you can actually turn the darn amp way up where the juice is, slap the phase inverter tube around, (which doesn't have a lot of NFB around it) and consequently the power tubes respond in kind, like the power tube sound is being squeezed out of a great big toothpaste tube.
That's why your hot rodded pedal didn't smash the amp and the pedal sounded fab.
I gave a 30 watt Aurora Reverb amp to Jack Sherman, (formally of Red Hot Chili Peppers, Bob Dylan, John Hiatt etc...) last night during our rehersal and he just wouldn't stop playing it... three straight hours, pronouncing it his favorite amp to date! As a matter of fact everyone wanted to play the Aurora and the little 12w Mission Tweedy Deluxe I brought.
To bew honest, we had lots of fun with all the great sounding and different amps people had and guess what?.... no butt head jewlery store knuckleheads across the asile! ha ha.
So you have good taste and are in good company.
Jack also brought some pedals to mess with but like so many others, still ended up with the raw amp played very loud, turning the amp bass down a bit, rolling the guitar volume down a bit too and then used that goofy built in boost pedal switch to kick it in the ass.:butkick:
It actually was doing very well mixed with the other guitar player who was using a gassed up silver face Super Reverb (by me and to Lew's Super Reverb specs).
Not as loud of course but the other player was pro and mindful so it worked out great.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Thanks for chiming in, Bruce. I was hoping you'd see this too. That's great info there. What does the amp sound like with a 12AY7 in V1 and a 12AX7 in the phase inverter?
I had gotten the newsletter about the jam from you and about flipped. Too bad I live in TX or I'd be there, guitar in hand. Sounds like loads of fun.
That built-in boost switch you put in there is sweet. It has just the right amount of kick. Another surpise was how it remained fairly tight even with my pedal on. I expected mush to show up but it didn't.
I hope you look in to coming to the Arlington Guitar Show in the fall.

What tubes are going in the 50 watter?

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

6v6..6l6..blah blah blah.....

:eek13:

You need to lay off the crack pipe bro....:laugh2:

 

[ErikH]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

:eek13:

You need to lay off the crack pipe bro....:laugh2:

Whatch you mean, bro?
I can't help it that Bruce's amps sound good. :6:

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

any suggestions for non-flubby 6v6s? what brand?

NOS RCA 6V6GTAs

They ain't cheap, but the tone :32:

I've used JJs...not bad at all, but start to flub when cranked
Mesas suck....go figure!

I've got some JAN Phillips too & they aren't bad either. The RCA is smoother, but the JANs aren't far off.

Never tried EHs or the new Tung Sols :dunno:

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Whatch you mean, bro? I can't help it that Bruce's amps sound good. :6:

On a serious note...If you are gonna use it as a platform for pedals..then I'm sure you'll be fine. But I've done the 6v6 and 6l6 thing (and el84s)...if you want Marshall tone, they don't cut it, IME (though 6v6 does a decent plexi type approximation).

6l6s are "high fi"...as Olin described :neutral to low mids...lots of highs and bass..V shape EQ. Soldanos are the only decent marshall types I've heard use 6l6s, and even then they still lack some crucial marshall elements..they are much more compressed in the highs and mids...not "open" enough...more smooth than crunchy.

6v6s are hit or miss..pushed a little they sound good...a little warmer and less hi fi than 6l6s..pushed hard, frankly I think they sound like crap..flubby, harsh overtones.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

On a serious note...If you are gonna use it as a platform for pedals..then I'm sure you'll be fine. But I've done the 6v6 and 6l6 thing (and el84s)...if you want Marshall tone, they don't cut it, IME (though 6v6 does a decent plexi type approximation).

6l6s are "high fi"...as Olin described :neutral to low mids...lots of highs and bass..V shape EQ. Soldanos are the only decent marshall types I've heard use 6l6s, and even then they still lack some crucial marshall elements..they are much more compressed in the highs and mids...not "open" enough...more smooth than crunchy.

6v6s are hit or miss..pushed a little they sound good...a little warmer and less hi fi than 6l6s..pushed hard, frankly I think they sound like crap..flubby, harsh overtones.

I hear ya. What I'm looking for is a good well built amp that has great cleans and good light grit, which the Aurora has in spades. My DS-1 as we both know sounds great since modding it. Using it with the Aurora would allow a little more diversity and tonal ranges for songs we do. I've got the Marshall for those tones. I need something else for stuff where the MkIII is a little too much.

The last amp I had with 6L6's was the 5150, first run with the man's sig on the front. Great amp, great sound, but it was missing something for me. But then again, that amp never got crystal clean either, even on the rhythm channel.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

I like 6V6's better for low volume overdriven tones and 6L6's better for cleaner "Super Reverb" type tones. The 6L6 always sounds bigger and rounder and cleaner to me. I like 'em all! 6V6, EL-84, 6L6 and EL34. Don't have a favorite...I like variety.

Bruce's 30 watt Aurora that we brought to the Dallas show had KT66's in it. When Buddy Whittington stopped by, he mentioned that KT66's were not his favorite output tubes...but then he plugged into the Aurora and loved it!

We also took Bruce's 18 watt Aurora to another booth where a dealer was demoing his speaker cabs with an assortment of amp heads. He had a Marshall 18 watt clone there that he was especially proud of.

I'd never played through one and was excited to give the Marshall 18 watt a try.

The 18 watt Aurora ate it for lunch! The Aurora had such a better tone that there was no denying it.

Lew

 

[ErikH]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

There's no denying that Bruce makes a killer amp. I was thoroughly impressed to the point that I'm still raving about 'em. It helps that my wife likes 'em too. :bigthumb:

My favorite tube is the EL34 but when there's an amp that's built well using other types and sounds good to my ears, then it's worth paying attention to.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

To my ears, the 6L6 sounds more like a bottle. Almost like I can hear the hollow quality of the larger glass bottle that it is. Lew

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Clarification: My post was on the general qualities of the two tubes in question...was not speaking about Mission amps in particular I've not heard them so I cannot say one way or the other whether they "break the mold", so to speak...IME though american tube types don't do british..and vice versa.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Clarification: My post was on the general qualities of the two tubes in question...was not speaking about Mission amps in particular I've not heard them so I cannot say one way or the other whether they "break the mold", so to speak...IME though american tube types don't do british..and vice versa.

Yes and no. A tweed Bassman can sound alot like a Marshall JTM-45 when it's cranked. Alot has to do with the tone stack (two .02's for "British" and .047 and .1 for blackface Fender) and the negative feedback circuit (less for British and more for blackface Fender) and the speakers (I use Celestion 12's in all of my amps that use 12's for more of a British tone). Lew

 

[ErikH]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Clarification: My post was on the general qualities of the two tubes in question...was not speaking about Mission amps in particular I've not heard them so I cannot say one way or the other whether they "break the mold", so to speak...IME though american tube types don't do british..and vice versa.

Exactly why I poised the question. In my experiences, more so with 6L6's, I couldn't hit that tone I was looking for. Close, but not quite. What I've found out just from talking with Bruce at the show and playing the amp is that the circuit design has a lot do to with it too. I think he said the Aurora (and Lew or Bruce correct me here if need be) it's sort of a combo of Vox, Marshall and Matchless all in one.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Exactly why I poised the question. In my experiences, more so with 6L6's, I couldn't hit that tone I was looking for. Close, but not quite. What I've found out just from talking with Bruce at the show and playing the amp is that the circuit design has a lot do to with it too. I think he said the Aurora (and Lew or Bruce correct me here if need be) it's sort of a combo of Vox, Marshall and Matchless all in one.

Yes it is...and throw Fender into that mix too. But to me it doesn't sound exactly like any of those. It's the first amp I've heard from Bruce (or from any boutique builder) that truly has a sound of its own. But it's fair to say that in some ways it does sound a bit like the four combined...

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tonal difference between 6V6 and 6L6?

Yeah Def a Bassman and a JTM45 are REAL close...especially with a change in speakers (and prolly why the Bassman is my fave fender amp).

I guess I'm speaking more from what tones I know Erik likes/goes for when it comes to Marshalls (as we converse alot outside the forum).. which are more JMP through modded 800. I din' know you wanted to AB the Marshall w/ the Mission though, Erik. It sounded like you were looking for a replacement.