Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Hey people, what is actually the difference in tone between a real 50W amp and a 100W one with two powertubes pulled?
thanks
thanks
Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
- Thread starter Kommerzbassist
- Start date
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
It's roughly the same thing as a 1/2 power switch. You'll just notice that at 50W the sound isn't as broad shouldered as running it at 100W.
If you pull the inner or outer 2 power tubes, make sure you halve the ohms rating on the head. Head with 2 tubes pulled/ohms at 8/cab at 16.
Head with 2 tubes pulled/ohms at 4, cab at 8.
It's roughly the same thing as a 1/2 power switch. You'll just notice that at 50W the sound isn't as broad shouldered as running it at 100W.
If you pull the inner or outer 2 power tubes, make sure you halve the ohms rating on the head. Head with 2 tubes pulled/ohms at 8/cab at 16.
Head with 2 tubes pulled/ohms at 4, cab at 8.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
And of course, if it's a 50W amp with 2 tubes, DO NOT pull out one tube. On that amp, there's nothing you can do.
Another way of trimming back the volume on an amp with an FX loop is to use a rack FX unit with send/mix/output knobs. Simply use the output on the FX unit as a secondary master volume. I do this all the time with an Alesis Nanoverb.
And of course, if it's a 50W amp with 2 tubes, DO NOT pull out one tube. On that amp, there's nothing you can do.
Another way of trimming back the volume on an amp with an FX loop is to use a rack FX unit with send/mix/output knobs. Simply use the output on the FX unit as a secondary master volume. I do this all the time with an Alesis Nanoverb.
PUCKBOY99
Irish Flagologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
Yeah, it's just a fuller sound...and surprisingly noticeable.
50w or 1/2 sounds good when you get used to it, but if you KNOW it sounds better with all 4 tubes :smack:
I sold my 100w '77 Marshall 1959 Super Lead because it was just monstrous & bought a 50w instead.
:beerchug:
Yeah, it's just a fuller sound...and surprisingly noticeable.
50w or 1/2 sounds good when you get used to it, but if you KNOW it sounds better with all 4 tubes :smack:
I sold my 100w '77 Marshall 1959 Super Lead because it was just monstrous & bought a 50w instead.
:beerchug:
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
:smack: lol I'm not stupid. haha
So... if I'd know I'd never use full 100 and had the chance between a 100 and a 50, I'd be better off buying the 50 because it has better tone all in all?
:smack: lol I'm not stupid. haha
So... if I'd know I'd never use full 100 and had the chance between a 100 and a 50, I'd be better off buying the 50 because it has better tone all in all?
muttonchopsrule
New member
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
the most significant difference is that when you're running at 1/2 power, you get that nice power tube breakup a little bit sooner. i run my mesa this way so i can turn it up loud enough to get the tubes cookin' without the sound guy throwing a sh** fit about me being turned up too loud.
as far as tonal difference, it isn't much. like GJ said, i might sound a little more broad-shouldered at 100 watts, but i highly doubt that anyone in the audience or anyone listening to you play will notice a difference.
the most significant difference is that when you're running at 1/2 power, you get that nice power tube breakup a little bit sooner. i run my mesa this way so i can turn it up loud enough to get the tubes cookin' without the sound guy throwing a sh** fit about me being turned up too loud.
as far as tonal difference, it isn't much. like GJ said, i might sound a little more broad-shouldered at 100 watts, but i highly doubt that anyone in the audience or anyone listening to you play will notice a difference.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
I know YOU know, but there's a lot of noobs that need to hear that, before they fry their transformer! :smack:
There's a point where the tube tone swells up and gets fatter, and it's usually around 6. On a 30-50W amp, it's feasible, but on 100W, stage volume is around 4, and the power tubes aren't even being pushed.
I know YOU know, but there's a lot of noobs that need to hear that, before they fry their transformer! :smack:
There's a point where the tube tone swells up and gets fatter, and it's usually around 6. On a 30-50W amp, it's feasible, but on 100W, stage volume is around 4, and the power tubes aren't even being pushed.
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
No just a general thought that popped into my mind recently. I was thinking abnout my amp and the 100W version of it. I bought this one for obvious reasons 'cause it's not like I'm gonna have to play a full stadium with it alone & w/o a PA
But the 100 would have had independent controls for crunch and lead channel, which would of course have been nice... hmm whatev
"Better" might not be the right word....but I know what you mean.
I'd go with the 50w myself......:dunno:
Is there a particular amp you have in mind? Does it have a master volume?
No just a general thought that popped into my mind recently. I was thinking abnout my amp and the 100W version of it. I bought this one for obvious reasons 'cause it's not like I'm gonna have to play a full stadium with it alone & w/o a PA
But the 100 would have had independent controls for crunch and lead channel, which would of course have been nice... hmm whatev
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
I don't know the exact numbers, but the difference is about 10% which is more thatn 3db. The major difference is headroom, a 50W will break up into overdrive earlier than a 100W.
I don't know the exact numbers, but the difference is about 10% which is more thatn 3db. The major difference is headroom, a 50W will break up into overdrive earlier than a 100W.
PUCKBOY99
Irish Flagologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
Not sure of that & I'm not sure if the difference is actually noticeable or the fact that you know you pulled the 2 tubes sits in the back of your mind, that you tell yourself it is :laugh2:
I could hear a difference, mainly in the sheer girth of the 100watts. The 50 was easier to tame even with an attenuator.
But that's a WHOLE DIFFERENT THREAD!!!
Not sure of that & I'm not sure if the difference is actually noticeable or the fact that you know you pulled the 2 tubes sits in the back of your mind, that you tell yourself it is :laugh2:
I could hear a difference, mainly in the sheer girth of the 100watts. The 50 was easier to tame even with an attenuator.
But that's a WHOLE DIFFERENT THREAD!!!
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
That is true...if you have a 50 watt Marshall and a 100 watt Marshall played into the same cab, both full up the total difference in loudness is only 3db's
That is true...if you have a 50 watt Marshall and a 100 watt Marshall played into the same cab, both full up the total difference in loudness is only 3db's
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
Are you sure? The difference is about 10%, which would mean the 100W has about 30db...
Are you sure? The difference is about 10%, which would mean the 100W has about 30db...
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
I am positive...don't confuse wattage with db's...a watt is simply the measure of the disapation of heat, a db is the measure of volume. You can not hear watt. Wattage can be as misleading as the DC resistance of a pickup...
I am positive...don't confuse wattage with db's...a watt is simply the measure of the disapation of heat, a db is the measure of volume. You can not hear watt. Wattage can be as misleading as the DC resistance of a pickup...
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
IIRC it's 12%. I posted a chart about this a long time ago.
IIRC it's 12%. I posted a chart about this a long time ago.
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
If I read the question right ----
I have played Marshall 50w and pulled 2 on the 100w - they sound almost the same
50w are a little "smaller" and sweeter sounding. Harmonically there will always be more balance in an amp designed to run at 50 incl trannies and all. Overall it's pretty damn close.
The diff between 50 and 100 has been well described above.
If I read the question right ----
I have played Marshall 50w and pulled 2 on the 100w - they sound almost the same
50w are a little "smaller" and sweeter sounding. Harmonically there will always be more balance in an amp designed to run at 50 incl trannies and all. Overall it's pretty damn close.
The diff between 50 and 100 has been well described above.
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
I'm not confusing wattage with dB, otherwise I'd say a 50W is half the volume of a 100
But as the hearing works on a logarithmic scale ~10% seem logical.
3dB louder is nothing basically...
I'm not confusing wattage with dB, otherwise I'd say a 50W is half the volume of a 100
But as the hearing works on a logarithmic scale ~10% seem logical.
3dB louder is nothing basically...
L
LooseCannon
Guest
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
As I know it 25 watts is 50% of 100 watts volume, so I guess 50 watts should be 75%?
BTW would it hurt the amp to pull out two tubes? Cause i've been told by my amp tech that it would but I read Mike Soldano's article in which he says it won't as long as you change the ohm..
As I know it 25 watts is 50% of 100 watts volume, so I guess 50 watts should be 75%?
BTW would it hurt the amp to pull out two tubes? Cause i've been told by my amp tech that it would but I read Mike Soldano's article in which he says it won't as long as you change the ohm..
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Tonal differences of 50W v.s. 100W w/ 2 pulled tubes?
#1 No, 10W is ~50% of 100W.
#2 No, as long as you change the impendance... you are just pulling out a push pull segment out of the two in parallel.
#1 No, 10W is ~50% of 100W.
#2 No, as long as you change the impendance... you are just pulling out a push pull segment out of the two in parallel.
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