Tone? Have to say I agree with a lot of this

But there ARE guys who can play the exact same way...and generate the same tones with different gear.


This is one of a dozen EVH clones....
 
Right-O, one hand/two hands/Jackson/Jem/Jem II/Legacy 1/2/3...he sounds like Vai 'cuz his tone's in his fingers....
 
Phantasmagoria said:
My point is that in reality Kirk Hammet won't play the exact same way & can't play the exact same way as Slash..so one of the variables IS the player himself (ie Slash vs Hammett). In the real world that's a real variable that can't be wished away or made to disappear or ignored & discounted (hence 'tone is in the fingers') and Hammett's finger's are different enough from Slash's that he probably won't sound anything like Slash (or very marginally like him) w/ or w/o Slash's rig...
Click to expand...

So, if you transplanted Slash’s fingers onto Kirk Hammet’s hands, Kirk Hammett’s guitar playing would sound like Slash? Or Kirk Hammett?
If tone is in the fingers, once Kirk has Slash’s fingers, he will sound exactly like Slash.

As a side note, are you also saying that, if Slash and Kirk Hammett played in an orchestra, and we’re both supposed to be playing the exact same piece the exact same way, the way it was written by a composer, neither of them has the skill to play the music as the composer intended?
 
You mean like in Frankenstein or Lovecraft's Re-animator?? Honestly had'nt considered the possibility though it's intriguing. Kinda like the Human equivalent of a magnet swap in a pickup I guess ......in which case yeah, their should be some tone-variation.

As for the orchestra thing....I guess it would depend on the composer & his piece. I mean if it was Paganini's Caprise 24....I would'nt want to be in either of those guys shoes is all I can say :lmao:

But I think we might be starting to over-think things a bit now. :D
 
I think it’s harmful to say “tone is in the fingers” to new players as if it’s a literal truth. I’d rather people say something like “gear can only take you so far”.

On a tangent, has anyone seen the extras from the Ghosts of Mars DVD, where John Carpenter, Steve Vai, Buckethead, and Anthrax are in the studio scoring the movie? That’s the kind of orchestra I want to see more of.

EDIT: YouTube to the rescue!

 
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CaptainWhizz said:
If the fingers make the tone, why do people buy different gear? Why are there Tone knobs on guitars, pedals, etc?
Click to expand...

They all impact the tone in some way. I'd argue that how the part is played/stylistic choices/phrasing/technique are the single most important part of tone (and I'd even agree that for certain types of music - especially the heavily distorted ones where there is less expression this is reduced in importance) . . . but that doesn't mean that you can't change the timbre of the instrument in other ways.
 
The player has some effect on the tone, but the eqipment has more. Try to make a bridge lipstick sound like a neck slug with ur fingers. Not gonna happen lol.
 
Why stop at the lipstick pup. Why not give the guy a trombone instead of his guitar & let his fingers do the rest?

I'm talking within reasonable limits not silly extremes..
 
GuitarStv said:
They all impact the tone in some way. I'd argue that how the part is played/stylistic choices/phrasing/technique are the single most important part of tone (and I'd even agree that for certain types of music - especially the heavily distorted ones where there is less expression this is reduced in importance) . . . but that doesn't mean that you can't change the timbre of the instrument in other ways.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's not even worth arguing. Playing is a dramatic part of overall guitar tone. Anyone who actually argues this is just think of tone as frequency -so there's not point in explaining any further. Even the style pick, the angle of the pick have dramatic implications.
 
NegativeEase said:
Exactly, I hacked out a lengthy response to the idea in the video that frequency is all tone is -which is totally incorrect. -but you covered it more succinctly

Things like your strumming style, vibrato, pick angle, finger strikes and mutes, and, phrasing, voicing etc etc ALL go into the equation of tone.

It's a metal YT channel -he probably doesn't know or care about the nuance of playing with regards to tone because he doesn't need to
Click to expand...

Yeah, because you don't need to.
 
I think eventually we all come up with our own unique sound. I believe gear makes a difference but so does the intricacies of how we play. Our player DNA won't shift when we change gear or play through something different. I believe everything in the chain does matter and knowing how to take advantage of those things or to manipulate those things to your liking is a good thing. Hopefully nobody truly thinks that a Fender Champ will deliver Cannibal Corpse tones if your hands are working a certain way.
 
Phantasmagoria said:
Why stop at the lipstick pup. Why not give the guy a trombone instead of his guitar & let his fingers do the rest?

I'm talking within reasonable limits not silly extremes..
Click to expand...

It's not a silly extreme. The statement tone is in the fingers reads as if the player is the defining factor in the resultant tone in all circumstances, which isn't true. It would be more truthful to say tone is in the equipment, or tone is in the fingers comparing the same rig.
 
Clint 55 said:
It's not a silly extreme. The statement tone is in the fingers reads as if the player is the defining factor in the resultant tone in all circumstances, which isn't true. It would be more truthful to say tone is in the equipment, or tone is in the fingers comparing the same rig.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well I'd argue that it is extreme.. it's common sense that if you gave a guitar player a dog whistle you won't be able to compare it's tone to his guitar. Fingers or no fingers...

You can' play death metal through a Roland JC 120's clean channel. I consider that an extreme "variation" in the equation and therefore not valid at all.

This only works if you have similar type of gear being switched around which is what the average player would do. The truth is very few players who shred pointy BC, Rich's are going to feel the need to switch to Danelectro's w/ lipstick pups for "their tone" ever..
 
Clint 55 said:
It's not a silly extreme. The statement tone is in the fingers reads as if the player is the defining factor in the resultant tone in all circumstances, which isn't true. It would be more truthful to say tone is in the equipment, or tone is in the fingers comparing the same rig.
Click to expand...
Man, horns are not about your fingers first and foremost. Lung capacity, lip control, then fingering.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
 
Phantasmagoria said:
Yeah, well I'd argue that it is extreme.. it's common sense that if you gave a guitar player a dog whistle you won't be able to compare it's tone to his guitar. Fingers or no fingers...

You can' play death metal through a Roland JC 120's clean channel. I consider that an extreme "variation" in the equation and therefore not valid at all.

This only works if you have similar type of gear being switched around which is what the average player would do. The truth is very few players who shred pointy BC, Rich's are going to feel the need to switch to Danelectro's w/ lipstick pups for "their tone" ever..
Click to expand...

So why say tone is in the fingers, when tone is mostly in the equipment and somewhat in the fingers as well?
 
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