O
ozzynotwood
Guest
Hey
How many pedals (with true bypass) can you link together before you start to lose tone?
---John
How many pedals (with true bypass) can you link together before you start to lose tone?
---John
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
If it's truly a hardwired true bypass, you can go through quite a few without any real loss. Most good boutique pedals are wired like this.
If they're pedals like Vox wahs, Boss pedals, Ibanez, Line 6, then each one will dull your signal a little more, usually shaving off your crystal clear highs.
If it's truly a hardwired true bypass, you can go through quite a few without any real loss. Most good boutique pedals are wired like this.
If they're pedals like Vox wahs, Boss pedals, Ibanez, Line 6, then each one will dull your signal a little more, usually shaving off your crystal clear highs.
krankguitarist
Krankitupologist
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
I've got the following setup:
Fulltone clyde deluxe -> Keeley BD-2 -> Voodoo lab analog chorus -> Boss DD-20 -> boss TU-2.
Thats two true bypass pedals, and three buffered pedals. I've got mogami cable between all of em w/ neutrik connectors. I've got a pair of fatso-flex cables between my guitar and board, and my board and amp. As a result, when I'm plugged in through this setup, I lose a noticeable amount of my high-end detail when compared to plugging straight in, and my tone becomes a bit more compressed.
Its irritating. Though, I'm going to be buying an axess electronics BS2 soon, and I hope that will remedy my tone-loss woes.
As for how many true-bypass pedals...I guess it depends on how good your ears are.
I've got the following setup:
Fulltone clyde deluxe -> Keeley BD-2 -> Voodoo lab analog chorus -> Boss DD-20 -> boss TU-2.
Thats two true bypass pedals, and three buffered pedals. I've got mogami cable between all of em w/ neutrik connectors. I've got a pair of fatso-flex cables between my guitar and board, and my board and amp. As a result, when I'm plugged in through this setup, I lose a noticeable amount of my high-end detail when compared to plugging straight in, and my tone becomes a bit more compressed.
Its irritating. Though, I'm going to be buying an axess electronics BS2 soon, and I hope that will remedy my tone-loss woes.
As for how many true-bypass pedals...I guess it depends on how good your ears are.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
With true bypass pedals, it's a simple question of signal travel length. TB pedals should only equal their equivalent cable length in signal loss. First of all, let's assume you're the type of person who can hear tone loss in 30' of cable vs. 10', otherwise don't even worry about it. Next let's assume 3-6" for the jumper cables, and probably another 3" of PCB trace or PTP hardwired cable inside the pedal. Besides the first and last pedal in the chain, every pedal is probably responsible for about 1' of signal travel. So 10 TB pedals should technically sound the same as 10' of cable. (when they're all off of course) When they're on, they'll sound like YEEEEHAWWW!:headbang:
With true bypass pedals, it's a simple question of signal travel length. TB pedals should only equal their equivalent cable length in signal loss. First of all, let's assume you're the type of person who can hear tone loss in 30' of cable vs. 10', otherwise don't even worry about it. Next let's assume 3-6" for the jumper cables, and probably another 3" of PCB trace or PTP hardwired cable inside the pedal. Besides the first and last pedal in the chain, every pedal is probably responsible for about 1' of signal travel. So 10 TB pedals should technically sound the same as 10' of cable. (when they're all off of course) When they're on, they'll sound like YEEEEHAWWW!:headbang:
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
The ideal input/output is high Z in, low Z out. Boss pedals are like this in bypass mode as well as when engaged. That flip/flop circuit is actually darn good. The buffer helps to drive the next pedal and so on.
Having too many TB pedals without a buffer can cause some tone loss. Add to that the length of cable between the guitar to first pedal and last pedal to amp and you could lose a lot. One of the best pedals out there for a unity gain buffer is the AMZ Mosfet Booster. It can be used as a unity gain buffer as I said or as a straight up booster, or both depending on which build you do.
The only pedals, IMO and IME, that need to be TB are wahs and the orange Phase 90's. If it's got a buffered bypass, great. I would never run an all TB pedalboard. There would have to be at least one buffered pedal in there, maybe two. If you're running only 1 or 2 pedals, 3 max, all TB is fine. Any more than that, make sure 1 has buffered bypass.
The ideal input/output is high Z in, low Z out. Boss pedals are like this in bypass mode as well as when engaged. That flip/flop circuit is actually darn good. The buffer helps to drive the next pedal and so on.
Having too many TB pedals without a buffer can cause some tone loss. Add to that the length of cable between the guitar to first pedal and last pedal to amp and you could lose a lot. One of the best pedals out there for a unity gain buffer is the AMZ Mosfet Booster. It can be used as a unity gain buffer as I said or as a straight up booster, or both depending on which build you do.
The only pedals, IMO and IME, that need to be TB are wahs and the orange Phase 90's. If it's got a buffered bypass, great. I would never run an all TB pedalboard. There would have to be at least one buffered pedal in there, maybe two. If you're running only 1 or 2 pedals, 3 max, all TB is fine. Any more than that, make sure 1 has buffered bypass.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
Nono YOU MUST FEEL THE CHANGE!!!
TRUE BYPASS WILL SAVE YOUR VERY SOUNDS SOOOOOOOUUUUUULLLLLLLL!!!
Nono YOU MUST FEEL THE CHANGE!!!
TRUE BYPASS WILL SAVE YOUR VERY SOUNDS SOOOOOOOUUUUUULLLLLLLL!!!
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
i use mostly Boss pedals.... i start to notice a drop after 4-5 pedals or so, and depends on the length of my cables and stuff too
Oneday i'd love to try some of these exspensive pedals with True ByPass... but the cheaper stuff will do me fine until i win a lotto
i use mostly Boss pedals.... i start to notice a drop after 4-5 pedals or so, and depends on the length of my cables and stuff too
Oneday i'd love to try some of these exspensive pedals with True ByPass... but the cheaper stuff will do me fine until i win a lotto
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
Hehe I think that I will make a special force, to wipe out the true bypass religion
Hehe I think that I will make a special force, to wipe out the true bypass religion
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
That brings up a good point. I use a passive TB loop over the whole pedal assembly. So if for ANY reason I want the pedals out altogether, I hit the TB. I figure if the pedal power goes out, or one of the little cables gets crackly I can kick out the whole thing. It has saved me a couple times. But depending on my cable length, the TB is either an improvement OR detraction. So I'm going to build a buffer into it on a mini-toggle, and rig it so I can select whether the buffer is on or off, AND whether it'll stay on during true bypass mode. That's the best of both worlds IMO. I know you said there's little need for TB but I've got an old SD-1 and an Ibanez pedal that both suck the life out when off. Oddly enough, the cheap Arion Tubulator sounds fantastic when bypassed. I'll have to look into the AMZ circuit. For right now, I use Bartolini's TC5-Z. It's flat and clean, but with a mid-boost option so for $30 you can have a lot of fun with it.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
I really like the AMZ circuit. Here I had a thread recently about yanking pedals out of the chain, and I did play without any last week and loved it, and now I'm probably going to be using the AMZ Mosfet Booster again. :smack:
But with the way I use it, it'll be on all the time so I don't even need it out front. I leave the gain control all the way down so it's about unity. When switching between off/on, it's like a presence control being engaged. The tone is still there, just crisper and clearer.
If you do build it, use a 0.1uf cap at the input instead of the 0.001uf cap that's called for. It sounds much better that way, to me anyway. There's already a 0.1uf output cap. I accidentally reversed the input/output caps when I built it 9 months ago with stock values and just realized it the other night. I was going to change the input cap and that is when I saw the oops...LOL.
I really like the AMZ circuit. Here I had a thread recently about yanking pedals out of the chain, and I did play without any last week and loved it, and now I'm probably going to be using the AMZ Mosfet Booster again. :smack:
But with the way I use it, it'll be on all the time so I don't even need it out front. I leave the gain control all the way down so it's about unity. When switching between off/on, it's like a presence control being engaged. The tone is still there, just crisper and clearer.
If you do build it, use a 0.1uf cap at the input instead of the 0.001uf cap that's called for. It sounds much better that way, to me anyway. There's already a 0.1uf output cap. I accidentally reversed the input/output caps when I built it 9 months ago with stock values and just realized it the other night. I was going to change the input cap and that is when I saw the oops...LOL.
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Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
Going lower in volume or what?
I love that expression, tone sucker.....well the biggest gripe is mismatched impedances, if I had my way with all our pedals, I would make them with a buffer that would couple the whole circuit off, and only pass through the switch and buffer.
How do they suck the life out??
Going lower in volume or what?
I love that expression, tone sucker.....well the biggest gripe is mismatched impedances, if I had my way with all our pedals, I would make them with a buffer that would couple the whole circuit off, and only pass through the switch and buffer.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
Believe me, I'm a fan of the buffered signal. On my old Boss and Ibanez they shave a little highs off. It's a little muffled. One of them (can't remember which) also rounds out the low end a little too. And yes, I do my A/B with the same length of cable, and one pedal at a time.
I can live with it, so perhaps I should have said they only suck a "small amount of life" out. Live it's nothing, because that's when I'm usually using another 10-15' of cable from the pedals to the amp. So in that case, I usually suffer more tone loss when the TB is engaged. That's when I use it more as a safety net. Also when I want to turn multiple pedals on/off at one time, I loop them and leave them all on. But when I'm laying tracks with 6' of cable I can tell the difference, and then I prefer the TB loop. But even in that case I'd probably still prefer the sound of a good buffer.
I've got the Bartolini preamp in a few guitars with an active/passive switch, and I always prefer it active. That's why I want to put a buffer in my TB pedal. But it sounds funny, saying "that's my buffered true bypass pedal":laugh2: Maybe that's the next fancy term that'll be thrown around for awhile: Buffered True Bypass :eek13:
Believe me, I'm a fan of the buffered signal. On my old Boss and Ibanez they shave a little highs off. It's a little muffled. One of them (can't remember which) also rounds out the low end a little too. And yes, I do my A/B with the same length of cable, and one pedal at a time.
I can live with it, so perhaps I should have said they only suck a "small amount of life" out. Live it's nothing, because that's when I'm usually using another 10-15' of cable from the pedals to the amp. So in that case, I usually suffer more tone loss when the TB is engaged. That's when I use it more as a safety net. Also when I want to turn multiple pedals on/off at one time, I loop them and leave them all on. But when I'm laying tracks with 6' of cable I can tell the difference, and then I prefer the TB loop. But even in that case I'd probably still prefer the sound of a good buffer.
I've got the Bartolini preamp in a few guitars with an active/passive switch, and I always prefer it active. That's why I want to put a buffer in my TB pedal. But it sounds funny, saying "that's my buffered true bypass pedal":laugh2: Maybe that's the next fancy term that'll be thrown around for awhile: Buffered True Bypass :eek13:
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ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
:laugh2: :laugh2: I love it. I see green attached to that. :laugh2: :laugh2:
:laugh2: :laugh2: I love it. I see green attached to that. :laugh2: :laugh2:
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Tone loss thru pedals
Hahaha cool concept
Bufferd true bypass....hmm maybe the pedals does not get along with the cable??
Then again, not all FET's are good for that task!
Hahaha cool concept
Bufferd true bypass....hmm maybe the pedals does not get along with the cable??
Then again, not all FET's are good for that task!
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