Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

[treyhaislip]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

I like both and I think there is a time and place for both. To me, nothing solid state compares to the "feel" and "response" from my Fender Tube Amps. But I do like both and think both are great tools.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

No doubt good tones are to be had with all the new software out their. I just don't like the tech side of it. No interest in computers, presets, patches, effects, firmware updates etc. Same reason I don't own a PC, gaming console etc. I'd get rid of my smartphone if I could. Now, I'm not a luddite...I respect the technology. I just have no interest in learning or utilizing it.

I do agree there completely! I've been a career IT professional for going-on 25 years and I can tell you that at the end of the day... the very LAST thing I want to do is to look at another screen on a digital device! I hate my smart phone as well.

Having said that, once I dialed in my tones on my Helix... I just plug-in, turn it on, and play every day (like I do with my pedals and tube amps). I haven't tweaked anything in weeks and have no desire to at the moment. I set up four different Fendery tones, and four Marshally tones... all in one bank and I just swtich between those to get everything I need. Two boosted lead and two rhythm in each group of four, with the expression pedal set to wah. Yeah... this thing is capable of 1000X more than I'm currently doing with it, but that's the beauty of it. When/if I get bored, I start tweaking and saving new patches... instead of looking for different pedals or amps. That's the biggest reason that I've finally become more willing to accept a modeler as a solution... the possibilities to grow with it. For whatever reason, I never felt that way about other digital gear that I've owned. I think that the time and gear are both right for me in this case.

 

[Kruspe]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Michael Wagener the famous studio guy from Nashville got it exactly right as i was thinking it was.

I was recording an album for well known band, their guitarist is well known for using digital simulation and not real amplifier, he likes the sound and that's fine with me, however once he got to the studio and i plugged him into real tube amp, i took him 1 day to get his playing style back to the tube amps. There is such a big difference in the feel and tone frequencies that he lost his ability to play tube amps. Here you can see how much the digital stuff is missing from the real deal.

Later on he said that kemper does that better and felt like a real amp, however i have a strong suspicion that he got paid for that

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Michael Wagener the famous studio guy from Nashville got it exactly right as i was thinking it was.

I was recording an album for well known band, their guitarist is well known for using digital simulation and not real amplifier, he likes the sound and that's fine with me, however once he got to the studio and i plugged him into real tube amp, i took him 1 day to get his playing style back to the tube amps. There is such a big difference in the feel and tone frequencies that he lost his ability to play tube amps. Here you can see how much the digital stuff is missing from the real deal.

Later on he said that kemper does that better and felt like a real amp, however i have a strong suspicion that he got paid for that

I haven't recorded with the Helix yet, but plan to at some point the next time the inspiration hits me to do so. How my song-writing and recording forays usually go is that I feel inspired and write some cool new riff (or even an entire song with lyrics), and then I get on my DAW and by the time I refamiliarize myself with running it (well)... my inspiration is history. So what I've made myself do over the past few years is to put those sketches down on my smartphone's voice recorder and save those files for the day that I'm ready to get busy with serious recording. I've got countless little ditties of various genres sketched-out here and there. At times I've been a prolific writer, but it's been many years since I was a prolific recorder. That was way back in the 4-track days and I'd use my Alesis HR16 or Boss DR660 drum machines to lay down some cool drum tracks, then layer everything else on there. I did a lot with four tracks (bouncing them down in stereo) and had the patience to see more material through to its completion back then. I lived and breathed music 24/7. But now, after a long, soul-sucking day job, and family pressures/stresses... I just want to walk into the man cave, plug-in, and let my emotions fly through rock & roll (or latin styles). I don't want to spend more time engineering/programming than I already do every day. So that's why I've had precious little recorded output... despite my more-than-adequate DAW rig. :guilty:

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Lol, I wondered how long it would take before curiosity got the better of you, Red_Label. Welcome to the club!

I've had my Helix Rack for almost a year, and it's what I play through the most. I still fire up my JVM and Triple Rec from time to time, but the Helix gets most of my attention. It's good enough that I put my Splawn, and Fender Supersonic 60 up for sale.

And get yourself a good transparent poweramp and run that thing through a guitar cab or two, you'll like it. Right now I run mine that way with a Peavey Classic 50/50. It's tube, but it's transparent, so it works well. But one of these days I plan on going solid state. I'm leaning towards a Matrix, but I'm waiting to see how the reviews of the Powerstage 700 turn out.

Mah, Helix rig:

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

It took me a few minutes to dial that digital tube distortion sound out

I'm curious what this involved. Is it just turning down the treble?

I think we're at the point where modeling stuff can *sound* as good as the real thing. But how does the Helix *feel"? Do you feel like you're playing a tube amp?

 

[Dusty.Rhoads]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

IMO a tube amp will sound different than any solid state amp being sold today. Some may find that the sound is close enough or even prefer the models they can tune into. As for me I still am partial to the tube sound especially when sitting in my house noodling on my guitar plugged into my little SE 6L6 amp.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Lol, I wondered how long it would take before curiosity got the better of you, Red_Label. Welcome to the club!

I've had my Helix Rack for almost a year, and it's what I play through the most. I still fire up my JVM and Triple Rec from time to time, but the Helix gets most of my attention. It's good enough that I put my Splawn, and Fender Supersonic 60 up for sale.

And get yourself a good transparent poweramp and run that thing through a guitar cab or two, you'll like it. Right now I run mine that way with a Peavey Classic 50/50. It's tube, but it's transparent, so it works well. But one of these days I plan on going solid state. I'm leaning towards a Matrix, but I'm waiting to see how the reviews of the Powerstage 700 turn out.

Mah, Helix rig:
View attachment 81224

Nice dood! I didn't realize that you'd gone Helix! I've dug the looks of them ever since they debuted, but wasn't able to try one out. So it took the reduced price (but same engine) of the LT to finally suck me in. That, and a 36 month no interest MF deal.

I played around with running the Helix into my Power Engine powered SS cab and into my Deluxe Reverb. But definitely didn't care for the sound there. That's why it blew me away that I preferred running it into my PA cabs. Because I've never liked the sound of guitar modelers direct to PA!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

I'm curious what this involved. Is it just turning down the treble?

I think we're at the point where modeling stuff can *sound* as good as the real thing. But how does the Helix *feel"? Do you feel like you're playing a tube amp?

Pretty much that. EQ'ing and trying out various amp and cab models until you find what speaks to you. The IRs are supposed to take things a step further in the realism direction... but I haven't had the patience to sit down and deal with that yet. And yes... since I've had my Helix over the past month it FEELS like a tube amp to me. On the few occasions that I convince myself that I MUST be missing something, and plug into my Splawn or one of my Fenders... I always end up feeling like I want to go back to the modeler. That's never happened before. It was always a comprimise and something that I had to tell myself that I would just have to get used to it... but I never did! The Eleven Rack was probably my favorite, and the Bogner XTC models had the same vibe as the real XTC that I owned at the same time. But I had to run the 11R into my SS power amp and 4x12 cab to get it to even sort-of make me feel like it was good. I couldn't get it to sound good into the PA. But that's exactly what the Helix does for me. And if anything... I feel like I'm comprimising when I warm up the tubes these days. I'm tired of "rolling" tubes, lunking heavy gear around, not being able to get a truly great sound late at night, etc. But if the Helix wasn't making me feel it, all the reasons in the world to give up tubes wouldn't be enough for me. Only time will tell, but so far, so good.

 

[Kruspe]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

On the few occasions that I convince myself that I MUST be missing something, and plug into my Splawn or one of my Fenders... I always end up feeling like I want to go back to the modeler.

Interesting...

I often play on my kemper with really good profiles of mesa boogie etc, i am always saying how good it sounds.. once i while a get a chance to play on my mesa TC 50 or Friedman Runt 20 on louder volume and i always feel like selling the kemper

It sounds 1000x better to me.

Also feel like i have to work harder on strings to get the tone i want, its easier to play on kemper than those heads.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Interesting...

I often play on my kemper with really good profiles of mesa boogie etc, i am always saying how good it sounds.. once i while a get a chance to play on my mesa TC 50 or Friedman Runt 20 on louder volume and i always feel like selling the kemper

It sounds 1000x better to me.

Also feel like i have to work harder on strings to get the tone i want, its easier to play on kemper than those heads.

I hear what you're saying. I've played my Splawn Quickrod and Fender DRRI very loud in the man cave (as I usually do) and for me, loud tube amps were the bees knees. But this feels different to me. And it's not like I'm tired of the Splawn or DRRI tone. They're great amps. But I just like the Helix better right now for various reasons. I never bonded with the Kemper that I had, but I blame that on not gelling with the UI. I was worried that the Helix' UI would put me off, but I like it so far.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

A friend of mine used to play marshall and huges &ketner tube amps, he is in love with the helix rigth now.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

A friend of mine used to play marshall and huges &ketner tube amps, he is in love with the helix rigth now.

I don't blame him. I've had H&K Triamp Mk I, Marshall 2203X (and many others), Friedman Smallbox and Dirty Shirley, Bogner Shiva and XTC, my current Splawn Quickrod, and I don't even remember how many other Marshall-flavored amps... and I'm digging the Helix so far as much I dug as any of those great amps.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Nice dood! I didn't realize that you'd gone Helix! I've dug the looks of them ever since they debuted, but wasn't able to try one out. So it took the reduced price (but same engine) of the LT to finally suck me in. That, and a 36 month no interest MF deal.

I played around with running the Helix into my Power Engine powered SS cab and into my Deluxe Reverb. But definitely didn't care for the sound there. That's why it blew me away that I preferred running it into my PA cabs. Because I've never liked the sound of guitar modelers direct to PA!

Yeah, next time, run it through your 4x12s. It'll sound great!

And I see that you mentioned IRs below. They make a huge difference to my ears. I've been running the free Line 6 Allure IRs, put a V30 and a Fane (the WhoWatt IR) together, and you'll have a combo that's great for just about anything. You can get them here: http://line6.com/allure/

Also, if you're on Facebook, search for "Line 6 Helix - Rack - LT - Native User Group ORIGINAL". I've been on there for a couple months, and there's a bunch of good helpful folks on there, and the admin is a heck of a nice guy. Just don't bring up Helix Native, it's a sore subject with some guys. Lol

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Yeah, next time, run it through your 4x12s. It'll sound great!

And I see that you mentioned IRs below. They make a huge difference to my ears. I've been running the free Line 6 Allure IRs, put a V30 and a Fane (the WhoWatt IR) together, and you'll have a combo that's great for just about anything. You can get them here: http://line6.com/allure/

Also, if you're on Facebook, search for "Line 6 Helix - Rack - LT - Native User Group ORIGINAL". I've been on there for a couple months, and there's a bunch of good helpful folks on there, and the admin is a heck of a nice guy. Just don't bring up Helix Native, it's a sore subject with some guys. Lol

Thanks for that info G_S. I'll definitely do that!

 

[Sirion]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

Really cool! This just goes to show how good these things are getting today. I tried a Helix some time back, and whilst it still left something to be desired for me, digital has come a long way since I started playing! I could very well see it take over when a smaller rig was preferable. The Kemper, on the other hand, didn't do anything for me; I have yet to try the Axe-FX.

I'm not wedded to the idea of tubes – I'm running a hybrid system now – so I suspect that I will probably get the first high-end unit (from next generation or later) that adds patches for the ADA MP-1 and the Rockman.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

I will say, early digital stuff was as bad as the worst SS amps. But that had to be developed before we got to where we are today.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

I picked-up a Line 6 Helix LT about a month ago and my tube amps are now collecting dust. I swore that I'd never go over to the digital side after the Eleven Rack and Kemper Profiler that I had failed to satisfy me. But the Helix is different (for me at least). I sold my Friedman Dirty Shirley a while back, and my Fender DRRI FSR and Splawn Quick Rod just aren't getting played much any more. I'm running the Helix into a pair of Yamaha DXR10 powered PA cabs and it just sounds magnificent. VERY tubelike in tone and feel. I seriously hope this honeymoon continues, because I'd honestly LOVE being able to jettison tube amps once and for all (despite my tube purist past thus far).

Same thing happened to me and all it took was a $325 Fender Mustang III.

This was a year ago and the honeymoon has not ended.

Tubes are going to be a thing of the past soon.

Guys who hate modelers have simply not learned to throw out all the factory demo presets and to create their own.

Because those tones do suck and they're only to show you what the amp can do.

Once you learn how to use the plain, uneffected amp models as a platform to create your own sounds, there's no going back.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

I will say, early digital stuff was as bad as the worst SS amps. But that had to be developed before we got to where we are today.

I wonder if early POD sounds will be replicated on modellers in the future?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Tube Amplifier Be Gone!!!

I wonder if early POD sounds will be replicated on modellers in the future?

My guess is, sure! It is a sound you hear all over music from 20 years ago. Modelers are replicating the sound of SS amps like the JC-120. BTW, presets on some modelers can actually be really good. The factory presets on my Fractal are wonderful, and nothing like the Line6/Boss presets of the past.