Tubes, speakers and low end

[bungalowbill]

I recently changed the stock Celestion 70/80 in my V-32 for a Weber C1265 with 50 ounce magnet to tighten up the low end, unfortunately the low end is still "mushy". Will a power tube change be any benefit at this point or should I search for a 6L6 amp for a better (tighter) low end? My amp has JJ 12AX7s in the preamp and the original Groove tube EL84s in the power section. I really like the tone of this amp except for the mushy low end. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.........Joe

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

I don't think you're going to get a big tight bottom end out of that amp like you'd get with a Marshall and a 412. I would actually suggest trying it with a 412 or even a 112 extension cab, to see if the extra speakers can deliver the bass you want. If you can turn the bass down, and the volume up--you may get closer to where you want to be (or, you'll get arrested!). And keep the amp on the floor to get a natural bass boost from the boundary (i.e., the floor). Dropping mids may help, too.

You can try some new tubes like the JJs, and perhaps even the Russian EL84 might work better. If not, then the amp's power supply just may not be capable of delivering the lows you want.

Good luck.

Bill

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

I recently changed the stock Celestion 70/80 in my V-32 for a Weber C1265 with 50 ounce magnet to tighten up the low end, unfortunately the low end is still "mushy". Will a power tube change be any benefit at this point or should I search for a 6L6 amp for a better (tighter) low end? My amp has JJ 12AX7s in the preamp and the original Groove tube EL84s in the power section. I really like the tone of this amp except for the mushy low end. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.........Joe

It really sounds like you need to lean towards 6L6 or EL34s for that quest for tight lowend thump....The recomendation about trying another cab etc,is a great idea also.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

i'd agree, EL34's seem like your pony

6l6's tend to be a little looser in the lows

I don't know anything about that weber speaker but usually when people want tight bass they get a vintage 30/eminence governor

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

It really sounds like you need to lean towards 6L6 or EL34s for that quest for tight lowend thump....The recomendation about trying another cab etc,is a great idea also.

Thanks Bill & John. I don't really want lowend thump. I want good note definition in the lower register....more pianolike. The crate has a very mushy lowend even compared to my Blues JR.....I thought maybe a tube swap would cure this.
I've never gotten along well with 4x12's, always have played through a combo. Maybe I will have to go find an old Fender Twin and a truss. :smack:

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

I don't know what the speaker you are using is based on Bill, but perhaps a V30 or H30 would do what you want. I'd also try a better qualty 1x12 or 2x12 cab and see what happens. I know those Crates are a good value, but I wasn't impressed with the quality of the combo cab.

If the tube/cab/speaker swap doesn't help, maybe a mod is in order. Could just be the preamp design.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

I don't know what the speaker you are using is based on Bill, but perhaps a V30 or H30 would do what you want. I'd also try a better qualty 1x12 or 2x12 cab and see what happens. I know those Crates are a good value, but I wasn't impressed with the quality of the combo cab.

If the tube/cab/speaker swap doesn't help, maybe a mod is in order. Could just be the preamp design.

The speaker is a clone of a celestion g12-65 with an extra large magnet and it is suppose to be very similar to a g1230h. I like everything about the amp except the mushy bottom....I have to run the bass pretty low to get some definition on the low notes. I will try to run it through a marshall 4x10 this evening to see if it is the speaker or an electronis issue.

 

[wixedmords]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

Hey BB,

Does that thing have a bias pot? If it does, then I would try biasing it to the opposite ends of the spectrum, 50% and 70%. There is sometimes a noticable difference between biasing at either setting.

You could also pickup a set of JJ's EL84's and Sovtek EL84 's and see how each sounds.

Sounds like you got it close. That is half the battle.

You may never get rid of that flabbiness, but it is worth a shot trying.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

h30's aren't that tight in the lows

go for a v30 or governor

 

[AdmiralB]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

You should try it with extension cabs first, it is likely that the 'problem' you have is a facet of the amp's operation and not the result of the speaker. You don't want to keep swapping speakers if the circuit just doesn't do tight bass.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

I was busy last night and didn't get the chance to hook up the 4x10......I'll get to it tonight. Thanks for all the suggestions and help.....I'll post tomorrow to see if there is any improvement.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

those gtel84's are russians, not my favorite. kinda harsh on the top end and not as musical as the jj's which are a fatter sounding tube.

what are your amp settings?

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

those gtel84's are russians, not my favorite. kinda harsh on the top end and not as musical as the jj's which are a fatter sounding tube.

what are your amp settings?

It depends on the room, but on average

Treble - 12-1 oclock
Mid - 2-4 oclock
Bass - 7- 9 oclock
and a dash of reverb.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

I think a Celestion Vintage 30 and a set of JJ's would tighten it up.

If not, punt it. hehe

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

Just got done playing through the 4x10 and still flabby. If it is the power tubes, I might have to go to a 6L6 amp I can't afford a retube every 2 months or so. Does anyone know for sure if these amps are prone to eating tubes at this rate?
I might be on the lookout for a used 6L6 Fender if anyone has one reasonable.

 

[AdmiralB]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

It's not the power tubes, it's the circuit. You need a different amp; the one you have isn't designed to deliver the tone you want.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

It's not the power tubes, it's the circuit. You need a different amp; the one you have isn't designed to deliver the tone you want.

I believe you are correct. Good sounding amp, just not the tone I want.

 

[SoCalSteve]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

It's not the power tubes, it's the circuit. You need a different amp; the one you have isn't designed to deliver the tone you want.

While I'm far from being an amp tech, that has been my experience as well. Flubbiness (or maybe a better term is smoothness?) seems to be in the design of some amps.

Your Crunch Box is tight though, isn't it? I had a flubby amp a few months ago on its own but with the CB it was tight, telling me it was the amp circuit.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

While I'm far from being an amp tech, that has been my experience as well. Flubbiness (or maybe a better term is smoothness?) seems to be in the design of some amps.

Your Crunch Box is tight though, isn't it? I had a flubby amp a few months ago on its own but with the CB it was tight, telling me it was the amp circuit.

It's tight with the CB and very Marshall like........clean on the other hand is a different story. I play clean and semi-clean a lot, other wise the flubbiness wouldn't bother me as much.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Tubes, speakers and low end

flubbiness to me is a loose indistinct bottom end, like when you hit the low e string hard and you get no definition or focus to the note just a low frequency kinda rolling out of the speaker. a bad thing almost always.

smoothness has to do with the quality of the highend/high mids, how much bite there is. i think you can have a smooth sound that still has focus and it can be a desirable quality