TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

[Southbound Suarez]

I have a lefty Brian Setzer Gretsch G6120SSU guitar that came stock with TV Jones Classic Filtertron Pickups. My question is, "How can a Filtertron humbucker sound so beefy and full at 4.8K and 4.0K Ohms respectively when a standard humbucker of this DC resistance would be wimpy and weak?" I have a couple of threads about this guitar on other forums. I installed a solid titanium Compton bridge on mine and now the guitar has no need for any more updates or modifications. I love the stock Filtertrons as they have a voice of their own, and I'm still stymied by the low DCR.

 

[thanaton]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

I wouldn't say they're especially beefy, but they do sound a lot fuller than a PAF would at a similar DC resistance, and I'd attribute that mostly to the double tall AlNiCo magnet, and the slightly chunkier screws. The inductance of the TV Classic is 1.4H for the neck and 1.8H for the bridge, with a resonant peak in excess of 10kHz, so any beefy sound you might get out of them is not going to owe much to their electrical properties. The high end might also be softened up a bit by higher-than-usual eddy current losses associated with the metal cover and those larger screws.

 

[HiFiRebel]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

Those are amazing pickups. In my experience, I have yet to hear a better set in any of the 6120 or Electromatic series. They sound so full.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

TV makes great pups. This week I just finished putting a pair of TVJ tele pups in. They sound soooo good too!

Over the last few years I've become a big 'Tron fan myself. I have a 5120 with a Supertron in the neck and a Classic Plus in the bridge, and a Falcon with the HS Trons. I went through a magnatron, and Classic before ending up with the Classic Plus in the bridge of the 5120, and it was a great ride. In my 5120 I thought the Classic was thin, but in a 1959 Setzer they sounded great. I can only think it's due to the trestle bracing, but I digress.

My only beef with TV is that all his sets are calibrated and "properly spaced" so he doesn't have any "true" vintage models. They don't recommend two Classic necks for a guitar because they are wound a little light for the neck position so in a bridge position they'd be a little wiry, or steely. Lollar doesn't make a "real" tron, so Curtis Novak is TVs only competition except for the random person that orders a Tron from MJ.

Luke

 

[Progbusters]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

yes my Powertron is one of my favorite pickups and can do everything

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

Sorry Guys, my internet has been out for two days. Thanks for all of the replies guys, my TV Classics in this guitar are beefy w/o being too over the top and as far as I know the bridge Classic FT is not a "Plus" version. The Compton solid titanium bridge could have something to do with the "beef" although, I seem to recall having it before the TOM bridge swap. What to my ears is "beefy" to others might be deemed as "insufficient".

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

One of these days I'd like to build a lefty Cabronita Tele w/TV Jones Classic FT's. Also, I thought that Curtis Novak was a premier winder of tele pups who dropped out of the pickup winding scene much like Tim White or, was that another winder who's last name started with an "N" ?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

My question is, "How can a Filtertron humbucker sound so beefy and full at 4.8K and 4.0K Ohms respectively when a standard humbucker of this DC resistance would be wimpy and weak?"

Aren't 'tron coils wired in parallel in the pickup?

Either way, DC doesn't equal output or eq/tone.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

One of these days I'd like to build a lefty Cabronita Tele w/TV Jones Classic FT's. Also, I thought that Curtis Novak was a premier winder of tele pups who dropped out of the pickup winding scene much like Tim White or, was that another winder who's last name started with an "N" ?

Tim White is the only guy who quit winding "cold turkey" I can think of off the top of my head. Curtis emailed me back Friday....so I just have to decide what I want to do.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

Aren't 'tron coils wired in parallel in the pickup?

Either way, DC doesn't equal output or eq/tone.

parallel connectivity (would/should) render most (low/moderate) output pickups too thin and whimpy unless the pickup measures 12K or greater. If a different gauge of wire were used and thicker than your average 42 AWG like say 40 AWG that could account for the lower DCR but if a thinner AWG were used like say a 43 AWG then the DCR would read a higher DCR than typical.

On the subject of DCR not equaling output or tone, that is subjective to you the player as we all have different preferences when it comes to what we think of as "benchmark" tones. Take a humbucker meant to have an output and EQ similar to someone's benchmark PAF humbucker tone (in their mind's eye) and so you wind this humbucker with 43 AWG and at a lower DCR than a comparable 42 AWG PAF clone. Do you think that the pickup will now sound close to the benchmark PAF clone? Not at all. Now you have to change up other elements of the pickup's construction to closer approximate that benchmark like screws, slugs, baseplate, coil swaps, etc.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

Tim White is the only guy who quit winding "cold turkey" I can think of off the top of my head. Curtis emailed me back Friday....so I just have to decide what I want to do.

There was Fred Stuart and another guy (most likely whose last name started with an "N") and I was thinking it was Curtis Novak.

**It was Curtis Novak and there was a time when people were searching for his pups high and low when he wasn't doing it anymore. I don't know when it was that he started up again. I recall now doing all the "Fred Stuart vs. Curtis Novak tele pickups" searches at the time.**

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

parallel connectivity (would/should) render most (low/moderate) output pickups too thin and whimpy unless the pickup measures 12K or greater. If a different gauge of wire were used and thicker than your average 42 AWG like say 40 AWG that could account for the lower DCR but if a thinner AWG were used like say a 43 AWG then the DCR would read a higher DCR than typical.

Thats a regular humbucker though. Trons have a different construction method. Much higher inductance from a much larger magnet makes a big difference.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

Thats a regular humbucker though. Trons have a different construction method. Much higher inductance from a much larger magnet makes a big difference.

So you're saying the coils of a FT ARE wired in parallel then? Which would make FT's measure somewhere around 8K IF they were wired in series like a humbucker is.

Orpheo @ Seymour Duncan states, "When the magnetic field changes (whenever you hit a string, the magnetic field changes, correspondingly with the change of the string, because the string is made of a metal that can influence the magnetic field, to put it simply), it induces an AC signal in the coil! This reaction is called inductance, and is measured in units called Henries. The higher the inductance, the more henries you have, and the more output you get, and the inductance itself gets bigger if you have a bigger coil, and a bigger coil gets back to being simply more winds."

So conversely, I can construct a pup w/a huge magnet, and very few winds and still have a large inductance measured and reflected in increased henries.

 

[thanaton]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

Thats a regular humbucker though. Trons have a different construction method. Much higher inductance from a much larger magnet makes a big difference.

According to their site http://www.tvjones.com/tv-classic-pickups.html , the inductance of a Filter'tron 1.4H and 1.8H for the neck and bridge respectively. That's technically less inductance than a Fender CS '69. The reason is because the coils have so few turns of wire on them. The reason they are louder than a CS '69 is because, while those two coils are relatively underwound, a lot more of the copper is positioned up close to the string, so you get more current than you would with a Strat pickup, so you get a similar or higher voltage, despite the lower inductance. They're very interesting pickups. They demonstrate the importance of a pickup's geometry, over measured electrical values.

 

[thanaton]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

So you're saying the coils of a FT ARE wired in parallel then? Which would make FT's measure somewhere around 8K IF they were wired in series like a humbucker is.

They're wired in series. I know this because, in addition to installing them, and taking them apart to look at them, I even coil split one for the fun of it. It was a pretty pathetic sound, though.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

According to their site http://www.tvjones.com/tv-classic-pickups.html , the inductance of a Filter'tron 1.4H and 1.8H for the neck and bridge respectively. That's technically less inductance than a Fender CS '69. The reason is because the coils have so few turns of wire on them. The reason they are louder than a CS '69 is because, while those two coils are relatively underwound, a lot more of the copper is positioned up close to the string, so you get more current than you would with a Strat pickup, so you get a similar or higher voltage, despite the lower inductance. They're very interesting pickups. They demonstrate the importance of a pickup's geometry, over measured electrical values.

It's like the geometry of the P90 w/its long outer turns and trying to approximate that in a humbucker spaced or single coil spaced rout.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

They're wired in series. I know this because, in addition to installing them, and taking them apart to look at them, I even coil split one for the fun of it. It was a pretty pathetic sound, though.

I would imagine so with (2) coils wound with less wire (in comparison to a typical humbucker).

 

[thanaton]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

It's like the geometry of the P90 w/its long outer turns and trying to approximate that in a humbucker spaced or single coil spaced rout.

It's quite a bit different than a P-90, because in that case you have centralized magnetization of the strings, at dead center, with the outer perimeter of the coil being further away from that magnetization, so you get string read similar to a Strat pickup, but they don't sound Strat like at all, because they have a very high inductance by comparison, nearly three times as great.

The layout of a Filter'tron is actually very similar to a DiMarzio Super Distortion, with their larger hex scews and over sized magnet.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

It's quite a bit different than a P-90, because in that case you have centralized magnetization of the strings, at dead center, with the outer perimeter of the coil being further away from that magnetization, so you get string read similar to a Strat pickup, but they don't sound Strat like at all, because they have a very high inductance by comparison, nearly three times as great.

The layout of a Filter'tron is actually very similar to a DiMarzio Super Distortion, with their larger hex scews and over sized magnet.

I was referring to the physical geometry of P90's and trying to approximate that in a strat/tele SC or in a HB shaped coil.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: TV Jones Classis Filtrtron Pickups

They're wired in series. I know this because, in addition to installing them, and taking them apart to look at them, I even coil split one for the fun of it. It was a pretty pathetic sound, though.

I'm not doubting what you've found but the patent mentions it being wired either way, with parallel mentioned first, which is odd if they are only wired in series.

I'm still curious what p'up company you are affiliated with. :cool2: