Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

[onlytwin]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

The Injectors, Areas and Virtual Vintage pickups were designed to use 250k pots. I'm pretty sure it is common for the middle and bridge to share a 250k tone control.

With a single-sized humbucker I would use a 500k volume and a 500k tone.

To get around the conundrum, I would use a Super Switch that loads the volume down and assigns either of the tone controls most appropriately.

If I were to use a Satch Track, Area 61, and VV 54 Pro my first attempt at wiring the controls would look like this:

1: Satch Track; 500k volume, 500k outer tone control
2: Satch Track, Area 61; 500k volume, 250k middle tone control
3: Area 61; 500k volume with a 510k parallel resistor, 250k middle tone control
4: Area 61, VV 54 Pro; 500k volume with a 510k parallel resistor, 250k middle tone control
5: VV 54 Pro; 500k volume with a 510k parallel resistor, 250k middle tone control

I'd see if there were any obvious problems and correct them. After that I would play it for a few weeks and figure out what changes could be made to address any deficiencies, inefficiencies or otherwise make better use of the controls. Let's say I always find myself turning up the tone control on 10 every time I went to position 2 and never turn it down. To address this I would hard-wire a 270k resistor in series with the tone cap for position 2. This way I wouldn't ever have to reach for the tone control and could keep it at the optimal rolled-down spot for my neck pickup, ready to turn up when needed.

Okay interesting, that might affect my decision since I'm trying to keep this mod as simple as possible. I suppose I could bypass the tone pot again if needed - it's not a requirement. I assume the rails will fare better without it?

 

[gregory]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

If you like to keep your tone on 10 all the time with a bridge humbucker then a 250k volume with no tone control will work just fine.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

When the chopper is used in the bridge, it is fine with stock 250k controls. The chopper has more highs than the injector bridge. The injector bridge sounds like the first two demos posted on this thread (post #26). I think its mid heavy and I wonder how much difference there would be between it and the FS-1. When I tried the injector I felt more inclined to use higher value control pots. I think I swapped to a 500k tone pot, but it didn't offer much useful improvement to me. The injector was sold on ebay and chopper was back into the guitar. YMMV!

 

[gregory]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

...and the demos in post #36.

The Injector Bridge will be markedly hotter than the FS-1.

I'd see what DiMarzio customer support has to say.

FWIW, the Little '59 and the rest were designed to work with 250k controls, IIRC. Whether it works better with 500k controls depends on what you like.

 

[onlytwin]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

thanks everyone, the feedback has been very helpful. I think I have my options narrowed down to a few. I'll have to see what the folks at Dimarzio recommend.

 

[gregory]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

I'd be remiss not to suggest a different pair of singles to go with the Satch Track or Chopper(!):

Middle:
Injector Neck
Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2

Neck:
Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2
Injector Bridge
​

I would get at least one Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2 pickup (either for the middle with an Injector Bridge in the Neck, or for the neck with either the Injector Neck in the middle or a second VVHB2 for the middle).

I'd run the idea by DiMarzio. I'm certain they would provide for a much better balance between positions. I know you're apprehensive about changing pots, but increasing them to 500k is going to keep these hotter pickups from being too dark. Installing them isn't a big deal.

My guess is that DiMarzio will likely recommend other rail pickups for the neck and middle (Cruiser, Fast Track 1, Satch Track).

 

[Hank-]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

The Satch Track is definitely intriguing if it sounds how you describe it. Just looking at the charts on their website it's clearly brighter than the Pro Track, similar balance to the Chopper. As it stands I'm considering this setup:

Neck: '54 Pro (or possibly a Lace Sensor, still looking)
Mid: Area 61
Bridge: Satch Track / Injector

Not sure if the Chopper will go far enough since people are saying it's more in between a single coil and HB. Is the Lil 59 still worth considering? I also sent an email to Dimarzio to see what they have to say about some of these options.

The Injector Bridge can work with the tone rolled down but those & the rails perform better with 500k volume & tone.
I have the chopper in the bridge, its bright but with decent lows & lower mids to beef up the strat bridge spot . It can sound like a humbucker depending on how the amp is EQ'd & with the tone knob rolled down.

I'll say it again though, you won't get a full bodied sound from any of these. Your best bet is an actual humbucker, it will cost less & save a lot of time auditioning various minis.

 

[gregory]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

I'll say it again though, you won't get a full bodied sound from any of these.

Relax the mids and all of a sudden things appear more full.

I can't imagine it being all that difficult for a company that's been designing dual-resonant pickups for over 30 years.

We could argue all day about what a humbucker sounds like, but I don't think that will help the OP at all. I will tell you that obliterating the Q of the resonant peaks of a hotter-than-vintage dual rail will in no way make it sound anything like what he's asking for...

I'm not too familiar with stacked/rail pickups, so I'll compare to what I've used. The FS-1 fattened up the bridge and removed the harsh treble, but it sounds a bit dead as a result. I want a full, open sound - closer to a vintage humbucker I suppose, at least as close as you can get in a single coil size. Some high end sizzle, enough muscle to push my amp a bit, but still clean up a bit.

Your best bet is an actual humbucker, it will cost less & save a lot of time auditioning various minis.

...not if his MIM SSS needs to be routed and the OP is unable to do it himself.

Anyway, I think we all agree that the demos of the Chopper that were presented are representative of what the pickup sounds like, as well as the Injector by those with direct experience, so onlytwin should be able to consider whether the tones are right for him. I find the Chopper to have a lot of character and as such I think of it as polarizing, and deciding on whether you like it or not shouldn't be all that difficult because it is so polarizing. That I think of it as polarizing doesn't make it so, however.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

The TS said he found pearloid pguards pricy to switch to a full humbucker, so it can be done but he is reluctant, eventually he will want to do it & then likely go with a medium output HB than a PAF for covering modern stuff :friday:

We could agree to disagree but as far as dimarzio working hard with newer designs, I don't think so. They have a tendency to tweak models on hand a bit & release them as an improvement or artist sig while charging few bucks more for those sometimes(happens internationally, not sure about US, & also gotta make up for the photoshoots) :banghead:

Their last innovative technique was Air & Area tech(Kinmann also uses it), the dual resonance has been around for awhile & I cant remember anything new lately from them. The most unusual thing I saw lately was the ZexCoil designs as far as tech is concerned. Not saying Dmz sound lackluster in the market space these days but they aren't that special either utahere:

 

[onlytwin]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

Thankfully my guitar is routed for humbuckers, so it's an option. I'm considering it, but the extra work involved means I'm less likely to get around to it. I also don't mind that rails aren't exactly like humbuckers - as long as I can get something vaguely similar, I'm happy.

However, if anyone can recommend a humbucker that works in my current setup, I'd strongly consider it.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

Just to play devil’s advocate.
I have 250k pots in my LP which has a Super Distortion and PAF 36th anniversary in it. I don’t find it too dark at all.
Yes, I realize that some of the options mentioned here are referring to single coils but I figured I’d throw my .02 out there anyway

 

[gregory]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

I really wouldn't worry about pots. They're not expensive and not difficult to replace.

I've read so many posts of preferred values pot values and they are all over the map. I think I've seen 1M volume and no tone on an SH-4 JB. Some guys like stuff really bright but that takes the cake. Must have been a dark guitar; and that's another thing: I often read about pot values that are out of line with the norm without making any mention of the construction or acoustic properties of the guitar. I'm extremely leery of 500k pot recommendations with Areas. I see them but not by enough people to take them seriously.

Use what you like, and definitely don't compromise away what might be the optimal pickup just because that perfect tone requires a pot value that you don't have. That said, mixing bright singles with dark humbuckers can be challenging. Load resistors can help but but they won't address the bigger problem of the large mismatch in output, unless you like a large mismatch in output.

 

[onlytwin]

Re: Upgrading my Strat pickups... again. Need advice.

I really wouldn't worry about pots. They're not expensive and not difficult to replace.

I've read so many posts of preferred values pot values and they are all over the map. I think I've seen 1M volume and no tone on an SH-4 JB. Some guys like stuff really bright but that takes the cake. Must have been a dark guitar; and that's another thing: I often read about pot values that are out of line with the norm without making any mention of the construction or acoustic properties of the guitar. I'm extremely leery of 500k pot recommendations with Areas. I see them but not by enough people to take them seriously.

Use what you like, and definitely don't compromise away what might be the optimal pickup just because that perfect tone requires a pot value that you don't have. That said, mixing bright singles with dark humbuckers can be challenging. Load resistors can help but but they won't address the bigger problem of the large mismatch in output, unless you like a large mismatch in output.

You've been really helpful, thanks so much. Yeah I think I'll do some listening and go with my gut feeling. Could be a full-size humbucker, not sure yet. I definitely agree about matching bright and dark pickups. Most likely I'll start with the bridge, no tone, and adjust from there. The single coils you recommended seem like a good fit.