Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Review

[NkZx]

Hi everyone..This is my first post...Thanks for these great forums and all the knowledgeable people here -- I have read and learned a lot so far.

This is going to be somewhat of a review \ rant post about HipShot GripLock tuners; and I have some other questions as well...Hopefully it's not too long and ramble-y!

I've had this guitar for a few years now, I love it (especially the stock Duncan Humbuckers with coil tap!!) -- but one thing that I've always disliked about it is the lack of locking tuners and the fact that it has string trees.

http://www.fender.com/guitars/telec...-custom-telecaster-fmt-hh/product-026200.html

So I decided to get some locking tuners for it...I went with the HipShot GripLock Staggered \ Open Gear in Black -- I saw Misha Mansoor uses them on his Jackson and he seems to love them -- so, I thought they were really a no-risk purchase...The mounting plate that came with them is pretty cool!

The stock vintage style wrap friction tuners use the double pin design to keep them in place, and have no screw holes on the back of the headstock for mounting the new tuners, but the Universal Mounting Plate that came with the HipShot tuners is very awesome -- it negates the need to have to put any new holes into the headstock -- although if I really had to, I wouldn't mind doing this -- it's not like this is a super expensive \ vintage guitar...I've had it for 10 years, it's special to me, but it's not really valuable to anyone else.

I got the new tuners in the mail and put them on, on Saturday -- the process was pretty painless, at first.

Prior to putting them on, I screwed the thumbscrew in the back of them all the way tight, so the locking pin was raised during installation.
Now that they're installed and in place, I go to put some new strings on them and use them for the first time -- I unscrew the thumbscrew on the 6th tuner, and the locking pin does not move.

I thought this might be a freak occurrence on just the tuner for the 'Low E' string -- so I tried the next one -- same thing..
Only two out of the six had the pin descend when I unscrewed the thumbscrew...Weird to say the least?

So I went to teh intrawebz -- I found some threads and some people said you have to just tap it with your finger and the pin will go down -- or you can use your cell phone (provided it has a case) -- this worked for me -- all of the pins went down when I knocked the tuners lightly with my cell in it's case from the top...Needless to say -- this was not a good first impression of these tuners. I don't see the point of having to do this or why they were designed like this -- At first I thought it was a defect, but all six of them do this to some extent; and there are def. more than a few posts of others talking about this on different forums.

Whilst knocking them with the phone, I noticed that when the strings are not in them, and the guitar is moved around or shaken, they make a clacking noise as well.

It just seems like overall these tuners are very, very poorly designed...I mean they don't make any noise when the strings are in them and locked down, but...I don't know...I just have never seen anything like this with a premium \ locking tuner before...They were getting on my nerves.

I also noticed that if I pressed hard, I could move the tuners from side to side when the strings were not present, just a little bit, even though they were tightened down as much and as tight as possible.

Next I put the strings on and went to town -- the tuning stability was great!
Also because they are staggered, I was able to remove the string trees! Win!

A few hours into my testing, I broke the High E string. Pretty uncommon for me, but not unheard of.
So, I unlocked the 'High E' string tuner, and the pin actually went down and released the string.
I thought that so far -- the minor issues I noticed with them -- I could deal with these quirks -- and I thought I was being a little too hard on them.
Next, I put a new string on, locked it down tight, and started to bring it up to pitch.
And then, things got worse -- the string persisted to slip and, although I could get it to pitch if I really tried and went slow, doing any kind of bend or stretching of the string in any way caused it to slip from the locking pin mechanism. Great.

I re-locked it down as hard as I could, and I even tried another string brand -- same problem.
The brand I normally use, for the unwound strings, is Elixir, with the anti-rust plating, gauges 17,13, and 10.
The other brand I tried were the Ernie Ball Cobalts, same gauges.
For the wound strings, I use the Cobalts.

At this point I am beyond frustrated and disappointed in these, although part of me wonders why the heck this tuner, which now has the slipping problem every single time, regardless of what gauge is used so long as the string is unwound, ever worked in the first place.
Is it possible when I broke the string it did something to the tuner?
That's the only thing I can think of to be honest.

I emailed HipShot on Saturday through their website -- I have yet to receive any response.
I get that it's the holidays, but still...It just makes the situation that much worse.

So this morning when I woke up and saw that they still have not responded, I went to the shop here and I bought some Gotoh MG-T locking tuners, took them home, took off the HipShot's, and put them on. Unfortunately, the Gotoh's require a screw hole for mounting them -- as of right now, I didn't bother putting any of them in yet.
They work great even without them anchored.

I haven't 100% made up my mind that the Gotoh's are there to stay...I thought I would wait to hear from HipShot first before I made a final decision, but it's looking like this is how things are going to be. I can't say enough good things about the Gotoh MG-T's, despite the need for a screw hole in the back of the headstock. They are just so solid...They make absolutely no noise at all, regardless if the strings are on or off, and are 100% non moveable when tightened in, even without the back mounting screw.
Also I do not have any issues at all with the unwound strings slipping out of the pin holes when they are locked down.

The only issue I've had with them is -- one time, while playing very hard, I managed to knock the high E string out of the nut slot, and it got 'stuck' on the side of the fingerboard. I figure this is the result of not having the string trees in. Kind of a bummer...

The Gotohs are staggered, same with the HipShots, but it seems that the break angle going to the tuner is still not enough to prevent the string from slipping at the nut, at least not all the time. I'm not sure what I want to do about this...If I choose to go with a string tree, I think I would only need one, for the 'E' and 'B' strings -- the other one that came with the guitar, I think, is pretty much useless.
But I would not want to keep the stock one -- I would probably get a roller string tree, or maybe one of the GraphTech ones that is coated with PTFE I think?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Anyone have any recommendations on what the best string tree might be in terms of tuning stability and friction?

One of the other reasons I decided to go with the HipShots originally is because of the SK style knobs -- I love the look of them! They remind me of the old LSR style tuners that Jackson used back in the day. This is one of the reasons I am kind of hoping that maybe the GripLock tuners I got are defective in some way and HipShot will remedy the situation for me -- but I would love to hear from anyone else who is familiar with the HipShot GripLock tuners.

Has anyone ever experienced string slipping with them, mainly with the unwound strings?
Has anyone ever experienced the locking pin not descending when the thumbscrew is loosened as well?

Sorry in advance for the uberlong post and I apologize if I have broken any rules or I have not conformed to the standards of writing posts here.
Looking forward to responses from anyone who can offer some insight -- Happy holidays all.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

Hipshots are pretty much the best locking tuners out there, along with Sperzels, Schallers, and Gotohs. There might be things to like and dislike about the details of each, but they are all high quality and well designed tuners that work perfectly well when used properly.

Of course the locking pins get stuck in the up position when you tighten the thumb screws without strings in; the tuners use floating pins. You should not ever tighten the thumb screws without strings installed.

Of course they make a clacking sound when you shake the guitar around with no strings installed. Knowing how the tuners operate (again, floating pins), why wouldn't you think they'd clack, and how do you think it is indicative of poor design or build quality?

The high string is always the hardest to lock down, with any tuners, even the self locking Gotohs. I would guess that you aren't using enough force. I have had this issue at times with all brands of locking tuners. Remember, as a backup, you can also wrap your string in locking fashion as well; you are not required to snip them off. Doing a locking wrap on the high E is never a bad idea.

Gotoh's locking mechanism is totally different. Personally, I like it and I think it works fine, but honestly, it gets more complaints than any other on the market in terms if its ease of use. There is just a learning curve that many people can't seem to get past, but once you do, the tuners work great. But it isn't necessarily superior to Hipshot's, Sperzel's, etc. in terms of performance, except in terms of its ability to be hidden inside of vintage-sized tuners.

Your complaint about the string jumping out of the nut slot with the Gotohs is also misplaced. That's a combination of technique and not enough break angle.

I can't recommend against Gotohs or Hipshots. They both should work fine if used properly.

To be completely honest, it sounds like you don't really know how to use locking tuners properly, and that your problems are all related to either practical or conceptual errors.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

As ItsaBass said, no problem with the tuners. I concur with everything he said.

It's partly operator error, partly "that's the way the tuners are meant to operate", and partly due to your coated strings. The coating used to make those strings resist corrosion also makes them very slippery. Do like ItsaBass said and put a wrap around the tuner of the E string...that's not an uncommon problem with any string on a locking tuner, but especially with coated strings.

Even with staggered tuners, the high E string (and even the B string) may slip out of the nut slot. The string tree was there for a reason! Not only to keep the stringa in the nut slots, but to increase the break angle over the nut to increase tone and sustain. At least put one of the trees back on. You will be happy you did. I like good quality roller trees (don't get cheap quality ones...the don't "roll" freely), but GraphTech trees are ok too.

If you like the looks of the Hipshots, put them back on and enjoy them. They are functioning perfectly and need no replacement. Admittedly, sometimes there are burs left from manufacturing that may cause a string to break at the tuner. I almost always file the holes smooth before installing ANY set of tuners.

 

[NkZx]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

Thanks so much for the replies! I had no idea that the Hipshots used floating pins...Interesting. That explains what I was seeing.

Any idea what the pros / cons of the floating pin design is, vs. non-floating?

I agree with the old style Gotohs (the 'Magnum" ones) where they were self-locking, and you had to use a coin or something on the top to unlock them -- I did not like those.
I had an ESP Eclipse that came with them...they drove me mad.

The ones I am using now are the newer "MG-T" ones; they have the standard thumbscrew underneath, just like a Schaller / Sperzel (pic)

https://www.allparts.com/TK-0768-003-Gotoh-SG381-MGT-Locking-Mini-Keys-Black_p_4656.html

I understand what you are saying about strings slipping that are coated but I am still a bit surprised -- I have other guitars with locking tuners (PRS Gen III w/ top screw, Schaller M6 Mini, Gotoh MG-T) and I've never had this issue before. I had some more time today to do some troubleshooting and I have narrowed down the string slipping issue to just one of the Hipshot tuners.
The other 5 do not do this, even when installed in the high E spot, with the same strings.

Still have not heard from Hipshot Tech Support -- I will hold off until I do before filing it down, but that does seem like a good suggestion -- Thank you!

In terms of roller string trees -- I am in agreement -- I was looking forward to not having to use them anymore, and I prefer the look of the headstock without them, but when considering looks vs. playability, I would have to go with playability every time...So I will probably have to get at least one roller string tree for the high E\B strings.
But I have never used one before and am not really familiar with them.

Any suggestions of what brand to look at that is good quality?

Kind of off topic, but has anyone tried the GraphTech Ratio locking tuners?
I really really wanted to get those, but they do not make them with staggered posts.
The idea of having gear ratios "tuned" to the tension of each string seems so simple, yet genius.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

Thanks so much for the replies! I had no idea that the Hipshots used floating pins...Interesting. That explains what I was seeing.

Any idea what the pros / cons of the floating pin design is, vs. non-floating?

I agree with the old style Gotohs (the 'Magnum" ones) where they were self-locking, and you had to use a coin or something on the top to unlock them -- I did not like those.
I had an ESP Eclipse that came with them...they drove me mad.

The ones I am using now are the newer "MG-T" ones; they have the standard thumbscrew underneath, just like a Schaller / Sperzel (pic)

https://www.allparts.com/TK-0768-003-Gotoh-SG381-MGT-Locking-Mini-Keys-Black_p_4656.html

I understand what you are saying about strings slipping that are coated but I am still a bit surprised -- I have other guitars with locking tuners (PRS Gen III w/ top screw, Schaller M6 Mini, Gotoh MG-T) and I've never had this issue before. I had some more time today to do some troubleshooting and I have narrowed down the string slipping issue to just one of the Hipshot tuners.
The other 5 do not do this, even when installed in the high E spot, with the same strings.

Still have not heard from Hipshot Tech Support -- I will hold off until I do before filing it down, but that does seem like a good suggestion -- Thank you!

In terms of roller string trees -- I am in agreement -- I was looking forward to not having to use them anymore, and I prefer the look of the headstock without them, but when considering looks vs. playability, I would have to go with playability every time...So I will probably have to get at least one roller string tree for the high E\B strings.
But I have never used one before and am not really familiar with them.

Any suggestions of what brand to look at that is good quality?

Kind of off topic, but has anyone tried the GraphTech Ratio locking tuners?
I really really wanted to get those, but they do not make them with staggered posts.
The idea of having gear ratios "tuned" to the tension of each string seems so simple, yet genius.

If, as you say, you have 5 tuners that don't slip in the high E position, then you officially don't have a problem. Just use one of those 5 in the high E spot.

 

[Duffy1949]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

No need to get frustrated.

I have many sets of locking tuners and have learned how to make them work best for me.

With the thin "9" E string I always wrap the string once or twice around the post. Doing this wrap distributes the pulling force of the string "around" the post instead of focusing all the pulling force on the locking pin.

Kind of like if you were holding a very heavy load with a rope by just standing there and holding the rope with your hands straight down to the load. If you wrap the rope around a small tree once or twice you will hardly have to hold the rope; the weight is distributed around the tree as the rope grips onto its circumference, making it so you can relax and let the tree do the work.

Does this make sense?

I never just run the strings straight up into the tuner, lock, and tighten. I learned somewhere to at least have the string holes aligned perpendicular to the direction of the string coming up the neck before running the string thru it.

Other people are successful using other methods, like using heavier strings.

This is just some methods I have found to work well. The high E is the only string I have had to wind around the post.

Lately I am using Roto-Grip locking Grover Rotomatics. The locking wheel is on the bottom.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

As a professional guitar builder I have to disagree. hipshot are by far the best tuners I had the pleasure of working with. Hipshot as a company is also an amazing company, too. I love the screws they provide (thicker than with Gotoh, so less chance of snapping the tuner when working with super hard woods: remember, I work with necks of ebony, cocobolo and padouk: hard as a rock!). I love the weight and the gear ratio. I love the way they lock the string in place (a foolproof way of tuning and stringing).

I have used Sperzel (hate installing them: the threads of the bushings may strip if you're not super careful and that has happened on occasion, and I also loath that little pin, making it a pain in the ass to line the up properly, if you're not using a CNC to drill those holes; I do everything by hand).

Schaller's are fine but they're heavy!

Gotoh Locking is cool too, but expensive (not worth the dough, imho).

Grover: meh. Not what it used to be.

So in short. I don't think it's a problem on Hipshot's end...

 

[Securb]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

I am a Sperzel guy I use them on most of my builds. I will conquer the pin is a pain to line up. Surprisingly I had a set of Guitar Fetish locking tuners sitting around so I put them on my Tele. The things are great, awesome tuning stability and I have yet to have a problem with them.

 

[rjudo]

Re: Upgrading to Locking Tuners on a Fender Tele FMT Special / HipShot GripLock Revie

I've got the hipshots on two guitars, no issues. Basically what everyone else has said, wrap the high E etc. Like anything new, they might take a couple tries to get used to.