Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

BIG QUESTION! If I have MJ copy it, (and I asked this question from her but was not sure what she meant by her response, it sounded vague, but I did not want to press her.) I have read over and over again that A3's are a good choice for PAF's, and A4, A5, but mainly A3's. Joe Bonn. is certainly a demanding pro who, with MJ, went with an A3 to mimic his '59, so I wonder if I should say, please copy my pickup using an A3 magnet. I would, as always, mean no disrespect, but is that even reasonable to ask such a thing? .

Sure you can ask for this this is what the custom shop is for but if you did I would severely question your motives... If you want a copy of your pickup why do you want anything other than what your pickup has in it? If it has this magic tone do you really care if it has A3, A4 or B29 in it? If you want an A3 PAF just buy one and dont worry about copying yours.

 

[Jermo3178]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

If you want to let it go, it's completely up to you.. but you are the seller. You set the price. Not the other way round. If he wants it, he'll take it...

 

[SJ318]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Edgecrusher-
Very, very good point. I understand exactly the point you are making. What I mean is that I hear and read that A3 was PROBABLY the mag used out of most of them.
BUT-- I also read, and this is important- NO one can tell exactly, again, from what I've read, that they can measure output from an old magnet, but NO ONE can tell what TYPE of magnet an old one is, whether it is an A2,A3, etc.
So since the Seth had an A2 and was mushy but got very lively with a A5 replacement (although it was too boomy and needed more mids) it still was better to my ears than an A2. and people seem to agree with that assessment. So that is why the question of a magnet request, and why I admit to being stupid on the subject. I mean uninformed on the subject. So Edgecrusher-does that make sense why I ask?
Steve

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Edgecrusher-
Very, very good point. I understand exactly the point you are making. What I mean is that I hear and read that A3 was PROBABLY the mag used out of most of them.
BUT-- I also read, and this is important- NO one can tell exactly, again, from what I've read, that they can measure output from an old magnet, but NO ONE can tell what TYPE of magnet an old one is, whether it is an A2,A3, etc.
So since the Seth had an A2 and was mushy but got very lively with a A5 replacement (although it was too boomy and needed more mids) it still was better to my ears than an A2. and people seem to agree with that assessment. So that is why the question of a magnet request, and why I admit to being stupid on the subject. I mean uninformed on the subject. So Edgecrusher-does that make sense why I ask?
Steve

No I am sorry I dont understand why. If you want an exact replica I dont know why you would defer to anything but MJ's expertise. That expertise is what your paying her for. If you want a pickup that duplicates the sound its even possible that since the pickup is now 50 plus years old that the mag has aged and she will need to do something different than just slapping an A3 in there. She will chose which type and which gauss level exactly recreates your pickup. At the end of the day they know that Gibson ordered magnets of different types. I know Tom Holmes has documentation for them ordering a bunch of A4's but if your pickup came with an A5 in it do you care that others came with A4? or that Joe B's had an A3?

Since no one can tell for sure the type what does it matter what type goes in it if MJ can get you your sound? This is the part I dont understand. Give MJ her shot the very worst scenario is that you dont like it then you can order up all the A3's you want stuff them in there.

Sorry I just dont understand the obsession over the magnet type...

 

[SJ318]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Edgecrusher,
That's O.K., I am an obsessive guy. A2 sounds mushy to me but if she decides that is what she needs, I will just shut up. I do appreciate your time reading my posts. I am a little too "verbose" as my sister says.
SJB

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Edgecrusher,
That's O.K., I am an obsessive guy. A2 sounds mushy to me but if she decides that is what she needs, I will just shut up. I do appreciate your time reading my posts. I am a little too "verbose" as my sister says.
SJB

Its all good no worries

If your PAF doesnt sound mushy I doubt MJ would send you one that sounds mushy after she replicates it. I would definitely trust her to use exactly what it needs.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Edgecrusher,
I agree.
SJ

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

I would not sell an original PAF for that little. He is WAAAAY under value. Total hose job.

Put it on the market and let him bid for it. Cash talks, BS walks...

Seriously, he is taking advantage of you. I would be offended. There are LOTS of luthiers who would love your business.

The great PAFs do have magic. That said, there are some very good repro versions out there...you should be able to find something acceptable. I would trust Duncan, Lollar, Throbak, Voodoo, et. al., but I wouldn't trust this guy with a dime.

Bill

 

[AlexR]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

^ +1

Typical PAF's sell for around $2500 and up ea........mid 60's Pat# pickups are well over a $1000ea.....hell even T-tops are reaching $400ea.

If he has bought the PAFs for $500 then he's almost stolen them.....or he saying that is what he bought them for so he can effectively steal yours.

Sell your pickup on ebay - and get enough $$ to buy MANY light guitars.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Have you thought about putting it up on ebay and letting the market decide what its worth (with a reserve of course)?
After that, you should have some ready cash to get whatever body you want. Warmoth does some beautiful work and you can even choose the body based on weight as well as wood type.

 

[dominus]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

The luthier *needs* the pickup to complete his guitar to... sound good or increase its value? If they're selling on eBay for $1000, then it's worth $1000. If he wants to trade then he comes up with $1000 in trade value. The market dictates prices, not individuals.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

OK- Here's the deal,
A single PAF goes from 995.00-2995.00. If I sell mine for 600, this luthier is going to perform tasks I can't do (old disabled story) Going to get the body from company that I want, driving back and forth from my place to his. His labor for a beautiful white finish, discounted cost to have MJ replicate my PAF, calling, sending, receiving, driving back to my place. A great dealer discount for new parts, I am going to go with a Fender Deluxe Vibrato bridge set w/pop in arm. Help installing the studs for a 2 point fulcrum. In other words, If I just went out and got this all done over the phone plus the cost of taxi cabs would be well over 1000.00 dollars, so I feel NOT ripped off but taken care of carefully by a luthier I trust.
So, what say guys, sound like a pretty good deal for a pickup I am not using? Remember, this has no cover.

 

[DreX]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

People trade all the time, but in this case, you're trading away something rare and difficult to price in exchange for services that are commonplace and easy to price. It's difficult to not be distracted by how precarious your end of the bargain is.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Hey Steve,

I have to agree with everyone else. You should sell the pup and buy his services rather than trade for them. You will still get what you want from who you want, but you will come out on the better end of the stick. If he insists on the trade for you to get what you want, that is sure proof that he is trying to rip you off.

As far as replicating the pup goes: yes, it's just wire and metal and magnets, etc and it is very easy to make a pup. BUT, there IS a lot of "magic" involved as well...the way it's wound, how tightly, how uniformly, the pattern, etc. It's NOT such a simple task to exactly duplicate the tone of an original PAF. Like has been said, if it was such a simple uncomplicated task there would be tens of thousands of PAF clones for $60 that would be indistinguishable from the original, and there would not even be a debate about it.

So, sell it on ebay, buy exactly what you want, and be many hundreds of dollars ahead.

 

[superpete]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

"Although he gives MJ her props, he says there is no magic to it, he could do it or get it done very cheap through connections in the industry."

if he really believed that, he wouldn't want yours or pay $600 for it.

 

[lemonman]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Steve, I agree with the others who say if you're willing to part with it, sell it either on the open market, or to someone like Vintage Makeovers, etc. If you posted it for sale on the Les Paul Forum your PM folder would be full with potential buyers in about an hour (exaggerating). Take the money and pay for his services. If you do decide to do the trade anyway, DO NOT let him have the pickup until you are completely satisfied with the work he's done. You are in control here, you have the bargaining leverage. My 0.02.

 

[elelpe]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

"Although he gives MJ her props, he says there is no magic to it, he could do it or get it done very cheap through connections in the industry."

if he really believed that, he wouldn't want yours or pay $600 for it.

+600

 

[Aceman]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

Edgecrusher,
That's O.K., I am an obsessive guy. A2 sounds mushy to me but if she decides that is what she needs, I will just shut up.

That is what Eddie Van Halen, Slash, and a WHOLE lot of other people who you aren't do. Seems to work out for them pretty well.


*I'm just gonna say this dude - you need to hear it; If you are THAT wrapped up / obsessed / confused you just need to NOT do this. You are doomed to failure. You are arguing with like 500 years of tone knowledge, and you haven't even got to the pro's yet. I agree - your request doesn't make sense. MAybe you are communicating it poorly. Great - then work on that. But based on what I read - I can't figure out what you want, or why you want it, or why you won't listen to the advice being given. Good luck - but I'm not optimistic that this ends well for you, and it seems to be you.

NO DISRESPECT INTENDED

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

If it's something that doesn't feel right, don't risk it.

But, if it's an option, send your pickup to MJ herself and see if they can do a diagnostic on what it actually is. IE: a PAF wound with 42AWG and an A3 magnet or whatever and then get a honest opinion on whether a custom is worth it.

On the one side, you might sell your original PAF and you'll know that. On the other, you'll have a replicated pickup with modern materials that will last well into the next century...

A 6 string custom is about $160, I understand, if you sell your PAF for a minimum $600... well, it's a result.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Very Hard question to ask: NO DISRESPECT IS INTENDED.

OK- Here's the deal,
A single PAF goes from 995.00-2995.00. If I sell mine for 600, this luthier is going to perform tasks I can't do (old disabled story) Going to get the body from company that I want, driving back and forth from my place to his. His labor for a beautiful white finish, discounted cost to have MJ replicate my PAF, calling, sending, receiving, driving back to my place. A great dealer discount for new parts, I am going to go with a Fender Deluxe Vibrato bridge set w/pop in arm. Help installing the studs for a 2 point fulcrum. In other words, If I just went out and got this all done over the phone plus the cost of taxi cabs would be well over 1000.00 dollars, so I feel NOT ripped off but taken care of carefully by a luthier I trust.
So, what say guys, sound like a pretty good deal for a pickup I am not using? Remember, this has no cover.

Promises, promises. Those are all future promises unfulfilled. What assurance do you have that is how it will all transpire? He's a pro and you are just being a sucker getting taken. Maybe that doesn't bother you.

Evidenced by his statements, he will not have MJ replicate your pickup. He claims there's no magic and anyone can do it. He's telling you up front that he'll just get you some kind of cheap PAF replacement while taking your original. His eyes got big when he found out you have a real PAF and now he's turned into a con man to get it.

There's no reason for him to handle replacing your pickup and there's greater risk since only you know what it should sound like and he's already said straight out only intends to get you a cheap replacement. It would be far better for you to have MJ replicate it, working with her directly to get it right, then sell the original yourself, which will pay for everything you want many times over. Doing it in trade, you are losing big time.

The new guitar would cost you alone >$1000 because you would be taking cabs, but that is not the value of what the luthier is providing by driving around and making calls on your behalf. And whether you are using the pickup or not is irrelevant to the value of the trade.

If you don't care if you take a 100%-200%+ loss and still you feel like you are getting a deal, go for it. I think you are making one guitar builder very happy and encouraging his unethical behavior. And note that if I didn't respect you, I wouldn't bother writing all this.