Vintage pickups
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Re: Vintage pickups
So a "PAF clone" has to get every details correct, where as a "PAF style" doesn't. What does the Seth Lover get wrong, if it's not a clone? Seymour Duncan does market it as being authentic:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/product-news/humbucker-history-the-sh-55-seth-lover-model
You say it takes an experienced pickup repairman to know the inner workings of an authentic PAF? Does Seymour Duncan not fit that bill?
You say the exact formulation of AlNiCo is required to get the authentic tone. Is there any proof that the AlNiCo 2 in a Seth Lover model is A) period incorrect metallurgically, or B) period incorrect with respect to it's electrical properties?
ThroBak says it's important to have period correct wire with a period correct application of insulation coat. How do we establish that modern wire is insufficient in any of these regards, or really even substantially different?
These supposedly super authentic PAF recreations are rather pricey, forgive me if I don't take every claim made by them, and repeated by various forum members, at face value.
So a "PAF clone" has to get every details correct, where as a "PAF style" doesn't. What does the Seth Lover get wrong, if it's not a clone? Seymour Duncan does market it as being authentic:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/product-news/humbucker-history-the-sh-55-seth-lover-model
You say it takes an experienced pickup repairman to know the inner workings of an authentic PAF? Does Seymour Duncan not fit that bill?
You say the exact formulation of AlNiCo is required to get the authentic tone. Is there any proof that the AlNiCo 2 in a Seth Lover model is A) period incorrect metallurgically, or B) period incorrect with respect to it's electrical properties?
ThroBak says it's important to have period correct wire with a period correct application of insulation coat. How do we establish that modern wire is insufficient in any of these regards, or really even substantially different?
These supposedly super authentic PAF recreations are rather pricey, forgive me if I don't take every claim made by them, and repeated by various forum members, at face value.
backporchpicker
New member
Re: Vintage pickups
I am an old man at least old enough to have played in bands of the tail end of that era where Fender Bassman, Bandmaster, Twin Reverbs and a variety of Vox and Silvertone amplifiers where the main amplifiers of the day there were few if any solid state amps to be found. The tubes of the day where the most difficult and expensive part of keeping an amp going because of the circuit design and the tube build quality and variations resulted in tubes going microphonic on a regular basis and to save money we generally kept those tubes until it got so bad you had to replace them. That was the amp environment and I doubt that anyone would go to the expense of recreating those type of amplifiers so again we end up with a "PAF" pickup that can not sound like a PAF pickup because it does not have a matching amp in most cases.
But enough, I will pester you no longer.
You would find it very difficult to find these type of components today and although there are specs the resultant components like "PAF" pickups performed within a broad range.
I am an old man at least old enough to have played in bands of the tail end of that era where Fender Bassman, Bandmaster, Twin Reverbs and a variety of Vox and Silvertone amplifiers where the main amplifiers of the day there were few if any solid state amps to be found. The tubes of the day where the most difficult and expensive part of keeping an amp going because of the circuit design and the tube build quality and variations resulted in tubes going microphonic on a regular basis and to save money we generally kept those tubes until it got so bad you had to replace them. That was the amp environment and I doubt that anyone would go to the expense of recreating those type of amplifiers so again we end up with a "PAF" pickup that can not sound like a PAF pickup because it does not have a matching amp in most cases.
But enough, I will pester you no longer.
Re: Vintage pickups
Don't forget about two other big factors: the wood used in the enclosures, and the specific qualities of the speakers, such as the magnet type used and the cone material. I never realized what a big difference those things made until I upgraded from a Fender Mustang modeling amp to a Deluxe Reverb and a 57 Deluxe replica, two amps the Mustang models, and it became clear that the particle board and one-size-fits-all speaker in the Mustang just can't duplicate every aspect of the tone you get from the real versions of those amps, and the speakers they were associated with.
Don't forget about two other big factors: the wood used in the enclosures, and the specific qualities of the speakers, such as the magnet type used and the cone material. I never realized what a big difference those things made until I upgraded from a Fender Mustang modeling amp to a Deluxe Reverb and a 57 Deluxe replica, two amps the Mustang models, and it became clear that the particle board and one-size-fits-all speaker in the Mustang just can't duplicate every aspect of the tone you get from the real versions of those amps, and the speakers they were associated with.
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backporchpicker
New member
Re: Vintage pickups
Cynic - simply disbelieves without making any intelligent thought process
Skeptic - looks at likelihoods before accepting or disbelieving.
You fall into the former.
At some point you have to drop the conspiracy theory. You also have a very poor record of accepting others know more than you, and have tested these things. That there are things they have measured and found no substitute for.
I cannot help you with your own mental fallacies, only encourage you to broaden your own painfully narrow horizons.
Hopefully you can grow and be worthy of the challenge.
Cynic - simply disbelieves without making any intelligent thought process
Skeptic - looks at likelihoods before accepting or disbelieving.
You fall into the former.
At some point you have to drop the conspiracy theory. You also have a very poor record of accepting others know more than you, and have tested these things. That there are things they have measured and found no substitute for.
I cannot help you with your own mental fallacies, only encourage you to broaden your own painfully narrow horizons.
Hopefully you can grow and be worthy of the challenge.
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: Vintage pickups
You've done your best to ignore what other people are saying in this thread that you've hijacked with you pedantic semantics. Now we're up to going over the same stuff for the second time in this thread as you ignore previous answers and run the questions by again. Your whole attitude here is insulting .
You've done your best to ignore what other people are saying in this thread that you've hijacked with you pedantic semantics. Now we're up to going over the same stuff for the second time in this thread as you ignore previous answers and run the questions by again. Your whole attitude here is insulting .
Re: Vintage pickups
Insulting attitude? What do you call modifying my quote? Or the fact that you only appear to be in this thread to attack me specifically?
What do you call this?
What do you call this?
That's rather hypocritical of you to say.
Insulting attitude? What do you call modifying my quote? Or the fact that you only appear to be in this thread to attack me specifically?
What do you call this?
You're asking is to be revealed the result of countless hours of research and trial-and-error testing the most respectable winders made in many years of hard work.
What do you call this?
That's rather hypocritical of you to say.
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: Vintage pickups
:chairfall
Ever since you appeared here at SD you've trolled threads with you " contrary opinion " on all sorts of things.
You have a very Drex like attitude. You've been confronted over this many times.
What makes this thread and your posting any different to before ?
Apparently any one not agreeing with you is attacking you and as far as me attacking you, you aren't taking any notice of other people beyond they're disagreeing. You're .reinterpreting everything with your " contrary opinion ".
It's a tired stance and rather pathetic. Retort away Notanathan.
:chairfall
Ever since you appeared here at SD you've trolled threads with you " contrary opinion " on all sorts of things.
You have a very Drex like attitude. You've been confronted over this many times.
What makes this thread and your posting any different to before ?
Apparently any one not agreeing with you is attacking you and as far as me attacking you, you aren't taking any notice of other people beyond they're disagreeing. You're .reinterpreting everything with your " contrary opinion ".
It's a tired stance and rather pathetic. Retort away Notanathan.
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