Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups
Hello everyone.
I just wanna tell you guys (everyone) that you're great. Really. And I cannot thank everyone enough for their input and comments (and for just giving a sh*t)!!! Thank you.
As far I can see in that SoundForge screenshot (at this level of zoom) the dynamics look fairly similar on the three guitars. The White Jackson being louder. The Black Jackson is not that compressed. It just has less volume.
I wish you good luck for your holy grail.
Ahhh... You recognise SoundForge Pro??? LOL!!! Yeh. It's my "go to" for everything. Been using it for YEARS and years and years. But that's what's so strange. Of the three guitars the white Jackson is SUPPOSED to have the weakest pickups. This I base on the fact that I have to increase distortion settings quite a bit with it. With the other two (and particularly the black Jackson): I have to dial everything back otherwise it's just "too much" (and with the black Jackson things become REALLY "out of hand" if you don't dial things back). Who knows. Maybe I just strummed harder on the white Jackson when recording those clips. I don't think I did but anything is possible. For the record: those two Jackson's were bought about ten months apart and one would have expected them to have the same pickups etc. but not so (and to this end I managed to find out that they were made in different factories) (in China I'm afraid) (but I love 'em anyway). Matter of fact: the black Jackson I bought while waiting for the Blaze build. And it was perfect. The white Jackson had to go to a luthier before I even played it i.e. fretboard was like a tomato box (very rough and dry), one of the string lock screws in one of the saddles in the Jackson FR was stripped, and the fret edges were like razor blades sticking out (this was a NEW guitar that was specifically ordered and all this before I even took it home from the store BUT when I saw it I fell in love with it and, well, the rest is history i.e. that's why it didn't get sent back and man am I glad I made that decision)!!! Anyway. Now: it's an absolute prize too. Fretboard was refinished, necks (on both) now have satin, and it (also) plays like a dream. And for the day that some piece of Jackson hardware packs up: I have a spare original FR kit just ready to go in.
Oh: and as per this LONG thread is has TONE too!!! LOL!!!
"On that first Dio record I was using an unmodified JCM800 and a distortion box."
Go to 1:03 in this video:
https://youtu.be/DBPHQikxzEY
I saw your comment to the guy with the Vox and the Super Distortion... it seems like the easiest thing to do after all this frustrating searching would be to buy a DiMarzio Super Distortion and try some distortion boxes. What was common in 1984? I really have no clue, but I'll make an uneducated guess of: Boss DS-1 like Satriani used?
I know that Phil Collen of Def Leppard says that he's always used Super Distortion since he discovered it as his perfect pickup in the 1970s or early 80s. He also endorses/says he uses the Super3... which is irrelevant since he is not Vivian Campbell!
I think the theme here is tons of output... from a Super Distortion boosted with a Distortion pedal.
If you don't have a DS-1 or a distortion box on hand, maybe try a overdrive with the drive up kind of high and see if it gets you in the ballpark?
In 1984 was everyone using the same speakers with their JCM800s and Marshall cabs? Or were some guys using Vintage 30s and some guys using Greenbacks?
The speaker is the most forgotten link in the chain of tone. It seems like we all rush to pickup or amp changes and forget the speaker's coloration...
(I don't have enough experience with speakers to say what I think he is using!), but I suspect that your missing link just might be output level.
You mean like the below??? LOL!!! Yeh. Let's face it: after my fitting the DM SD (which I'm led to believe has been dispatched and is on its way) then the only possible things missing from the equation are two JCM800's with 1960 cabs., possibly a set of SD Invaders, and a little more practice!!! LOL!!! Alas: not gonna happen (the JCM800's). I had one back in the very late '80's and another one about fifteen years or so ago (note: ONE not TWO for stereo). I was in CONSTANT trouble with neighbours (nearly got arrested once if memory serves me correctly) (and being pissed out of my head at the time didn't help neither) (they were not of the "Master Volume" variety). And where I live now??? I'll be out on my ear in thirty seconds flat!!! So nah: will make do with my CODE amps. (I really do like 'em). I HAVE thought about getting two DSL's but man: the trouble that people are having with those amps. (Marshall forums)??? Never gonna happen. And besides (and let's never forget): I AM CLOSE to the tone (at least on my one guitar) that I seek. So going valves (again) ain't necessary to me. Also: my target audience is (unfortunately) smallish pubs. I have WAY TOO MUCH power for the type of venues what will give me a shot (and hard enough to find anybody that will let you play Dio all night long too). This also being one of the reasons I've not upgraded to the CODE100H plus cabs. And OF COURSE: at some point in the near future I gotta find a vocalist to cover Dio. Oh MAN: are things THEN gonna get interesting (you think I'm "picky" about my guitar tone??? LOL!!!).
Oh and I watched that whole video. Thanks. I seem to have seen it before and I fear it was BEFORE the Vivian/white Charvel era. If you watch the whole thing: he actually talks pickups about two thirds of the way through. But the cameraman was an idiot i.e. never showed the guitar as Vivian was pointing to the pickups (until the very end and then the quality is so bad I cannot make out anything specific).
But OK and back to the technical aspects. I do have a problem with the SD-1 and the CODE amps. When using the JCM800 emulation there is so much noise that it's just not worth it. I can gate it out using the CODE's built in noise gate but it's got to be so high that it actually ends up choking the sound. So I have also on order (should arrive today) a Boss NS-2 to put in the chain just before the split to the two amps. Yeh.
And THIS coming from somebody who thought he'd never need nor buy pedals again!!! See my comments below re: your comment about us not paying enough attention to the speakers in the chain!!! Agreed.
In 1984, Marshall cabs floating around contained a bizzare assortment of Greenbacks, g12-65, g12-80, M70, etc.
Possibly also K85 and H30, not sure if they were sold/offered stock though
V30 (1986)...did NOT exist yet. NEITHER did the T75 (1985).
Yup yup kids, nearly ~ALL~ your fave stuff was recorded pre-V30, pre-T75.
Kids??? LOL!!! I wish. And thanks for that!!!
I cannot comment i.e. don't have the knowledge. When I've had heads and cabs. they were just cabs. i.e. didn't bother with what was in them at the time (I know one was a slanted 1960 cab. but no idea which Celestion's were in it). (Didn't bother because it was more important at the time to get "out of it" and have a good time instead of getting on with it hence my trying this now for the third time at fifty three years old!!!) (and for anybody that still has most of their lives ahead of them: LISTEN TO ME i.e. THERE IS AN IMPORTANT LESSON HERE!!!). But I will say this: the CODE range are notorious for the way that treble and bass sort of "fight" with each other. I think I've found the sweet spot. But one or two people have installed Celestion speakers and say that the problem magically disappeared. Who knows. Maybe that's the next step i.e. replacing the stock speakers with Celestion speakers (will have to check specs. and get some recommendations from everyone both here and on the Marshall forums) (not Marshall's own forums i.e. they're useless). But where does it stop (or does it just not stop ever???). I have to be honest and say that I was a bit taken aback when I posted the link of my video above last night. I've not watched it for ages. The guitar playing at that time was useless I know. And too much distortion maybe too I know. It wasn't great. But I will tell you that it wasn't that far from what I'm looking for. And the sad part: that was made without loads of pedals and changing pickups and, and, and, and, and ... Maybe there's a lesson in that now!!!
Regards,
Dale.
P.S.
The only pic. I have left of "the VERY good 'ol days" i.e. taken sometime in '80's (definitely after 1984 anyway). Loads of time has passed, many things have happened, pics. of my Marshall no longer exist i.e. got rid of those Crate's and bought a used JCM800 with 1960 cab. (couldn't buy new Marshall gear in those days because of sanctions). But oh well. Can see my beautiful Charvel's of the day anyway. And my Dio Holy Diver flag on the wall!!! LOL!!! If I had those times over and knew what I knew today ...
The Charvel's, I remember clearly, had SD pickups. The "Sunburst" had active SD pickups (I remember well because I always forgot and left the instrument cable in and had to change batteries every time I wanted to play!!! LOL!!!). Somewhere in there is a Kawai Q80 sequencer (how many people remember those or even know what a sequencer is nowadays), a Korg A3 processor, and, wait for it, a Tascam 4-track recorder!!! LOL!!!
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