wattage question

clint_41

New member
So i understand that tube watts are louder than solid state watts... but how much louder? What im really trying to do here is figure out exactly how loud an 18 watt tube amp is going to be compared to a 100watt solid state, but the general information would probably be good to know anyways, so if u could help me out with some of this that would be great. thanks.
 
Re: wattage question

well from my experience with a peavey classic 50 watt '75 and a crate mx60RC i learned that tubes are loud up until they start distorting. If you want some serious giggable wattage grab a fender twin(85 watts) Solid states under 60 watts are not exactly giggable. The good thing about solid state is that almost any wattage amp can be used for practice at home, but once you feel the majestic tone of a fender twin, you'll never go back (never say never, though very few guitarists swear by solid state)

If you want a great amp grab a fender blues junior, it has decent tube wattage, is loud, but works well for practice purposes and has great tone. Solid state most often has more headroom because it doesn't distort easily, but when it does distort it sounds looser than a heap of cottage cheese. if you need more wattage but want to keep a small size, get a deluxe reverb or lower.
 
Re: wattage question

I posted this before on the issue of wattage and dBs.

Sound level is measured in terms of decibels (dB). Volume is referred to as sound pressure level (SPL). In tests, the average person can detect a 3dB change in volume. 3dB is just enough difference that you can barely tell the volume has changed. A 10 dB change in SPL is perceived as twice as loud. With that in mind we can move on to what is required in terms of power (measured in watts) for an amp to create a 3dB change.

Amplifier Output - It takes 2 times the power from an amp to change the volume 3dB. In other words if an amp is producing 1 watt of power it needs to increase to 2 watts of power to make a 3dB change. This is a ratio of 2:1. By the same token if the amp is producing 50 watts of power it will need to increase to 100 watts to produce a 3dB change. 100 watts would take 200 watts for that same change.

How much power would it take to Increase the SPL 10dB? It will take 10 times the power to increase the SPL by 10dB! In other words, if your amp was producing 50 watts of power you would need to increase it to 500 watts to achieve a 10dB increase. As you can see it takes a lot of power to get a small increase in volume.

Speaker surface area is one factor that effects volume. This concept is not as simple as it first appears. If we double the surface area we will increase the SPL by 3dB. Here is an example. If you have a 50 watt amp with one 12" speaker and you add another 12" speaker you will get the magic 3dB increase. You would have the same SPL as a 100 watt amp with one
12" speaker. To get the next 3dB increase we need to double the surface area again so we would need four 12" speakers. Having 4 speakers will give us a 6dB increase in SPL compared to 1 speaker. Sounds like the same system as the power ratio above doesn't it. Here is were the complex part comes in. If we double the 4 speakers to 8 speakers you would think that there would be a 9dB increase in SPL compared to one speaker, right? Nope. What we get is only a 6dB increase compared to one speaker. Huh? We have now introduced a new factor to this equation...Phase Cancellation. In short the distance between the speakers causes the sound to reach your ears, from some of the speakers, at a different time . This has the effect of canceling some of the sound. So...More speakers are better up to a point.

Speaker efficiency also plays a role in the optimizing of SPL. How well a speaker can convert electrical energy into mechanical energy is called speaker efficiency. If you look at the specification sheet of a speaker it will contain information of this type. It is described as, "Output measured at one watt - at one meter", and then a dB value is given. What this means is a one watt signal is played through the speaker and then its SPL is measured at a distance from the speaker of one meter. Because we know about the 3dB increase concept described above we can compare the SPL of different speakers to determine which one can produce the most SPL. The larger the SPL number the more efficient and louder the speaker will be. It will usually be less expensive to get a more efficient speaker(s), than a larger power amp, to produce the same or greater SPL.
 
Re: wattage question

texasguitarslinger said:
I posted this before on the issue of wattage and dBs.

Sound level is measured in terms of decibels (dB). Volume is referred to as sound pressure level (SPL). In tests, the average person can detect a 3dB change in volume. 3dB is just enough difference that you can barely tell the volume has changed. A 10 dB change in SPL is perceived as twice as loud. With that in mind we can move on to what is required in terms of power (measured in watts) for an amp to create a 3dB change.

Amplifier Output - It takes 2 times the power from an amp to change the volume 3dB. In other words if an amp is producing 1 watt of power it needs to increase to 2 watts of power to make a 3dB change. This is a ratio of 2:1. By the same token if the amp is producing 50 watts of power it will need to increase to 100 watts to produce a 3dB change. 100 watts would take 200 watts for that same change.

How much power would it take to Increase the SPL 10dB? It will take 10 times the power to increase the SPL by 10dB! In other words, if your amp was producing 50 watts of power you would need to increase it to 500 watts to achieve a 10dB increase. As you can see it takes a lot of power to get a small increase in volume.

Speaker surface area is one factor that effects volume. This concept is not as simple as it first appears. If we double the surface area we will increase the SPL by 3dB. Here is an example. If you have a 50 watt amp with one 12" speaker and you add another 12" speaker you will get the magic 3dB increase. You would have the same SPL as a 100 watt amp with one
12" speaker. To get the next 3dB increase we need to double the surface area again so we would need four 12" speakers. Having 4 speakers will give us a 6dB increase in SPL compared to 1 speaker. Sounds like the same system as the power ratio above doesn't it. Here is were the complex part comes in. If we double the 4 speakers to 8 speakers you would think that there would be a 9dB increase in SPL compared to one speaker, right? Nope. What we get is only a 6dB increase compared to one speaker. Huh? We have now introduced a new factor to this equation...Phase Cancellation. In short the distance between the speakers causes the sound to reach your ears, from some of the speakers, at a different time . This has the effect of canceling some of the sound. So...More speakers are better up to a point.

Speaker efficiency also plays a role in the optimizing of SPL. How well a speaker can convert electrical energy into mechanical energy is called speaker efficiency. If you look at the specification sheet of a speaker it will contain information of this type. It is described as, "Output measured at one watt - at one meter", and then a dB value is given. What this means is a one watt signal is played through the speaker and then its SPL is measured at a distance from the speaker of one meter. Because we know about the 3dB increase concept described above we can compare the SPL of different speakers to determine which one can produce the most SPL. The larger the SPL number the more efficient and louder the speaker will be. It will usually be less expensive to get a more efficient speaker(s), than a larger power amp, to produce the same or greater SPL.


VERY WELL SAID MY FRIEND...I only want to add one thing,

YOU CAN NOT HEAR A WATT
 
Re: wattage question

wow, that is some helpful information. thanks a bunch for that TGS. any other additions?
 
Re: wattage question

You may find some more info at
AmpTone
An interresting fact I read there says that a 5 watt tube amp at full volume is as loud as a trumpet.
 
Re: wattage question

i suppose that might be true if an efficient speaker was used. a trumpet is a very punchy instrument
 
Re: wattage question

well, my 40 watt hot rod deluxe, well, next to an avt150, i can get equal or greater volume before it starts overdriving

given an avt150 sounds like its more like 120 or 130 watts, but you get the main idea
 
Re: wattage question

Watts are watts. A 50 watt amp is a god's plenty when you're talking about gigging. I used to use a 40 watt Randall amp in the 80s without running it through the PA, and I know musicians that routinely gig with Fender Champs (they're not loud enough on their own, they're screaming little amps and sound great through a sound system). 50 watts in a tube amp is NOT louder than 50 watts on a SS amp. However, the amps respond differently when pushed to their max output. There's only so much volume you need onstage. The main difference between a 50 watt and a 100 watt Marshall is not volume, but headroom.
 
Last edited:
Re: wattage question

drew_half_empty said:
not true

I crush mg100's with my 40 watt tube

and they're run thru 4x12's

I think what he was getting at is that watts refers to power and that 50 watts tube is the same as 50 watts SS. Yeah sure, the way they react is different and the tube amp would kill the SS for volume, but 50 watts = 50 watts in SS or tube.
 
Re: wattage question

All I know is that my 50 watt Mesa power amp is loud as all heck. I can't imagine needing more than that for gigging unless your outside with no PA system at all. Even then....
 
Last edited:
Re: wattage question

I think as a basic generalization, a tube watt is approximately double SS ie. 20w tube amp is approx. the same as a 40w SS amp.

Not as in depth as some.................. :rolleyes:
 
Re: wattage question

nah, i'd give it x3

well, it depends

fender amps are naturally a lot louder than marshalls

but i'd say 2.5

i accept a stage 100 as my match in volume

but not in tone (eeeeewwww)
 
Re: wattage question

Yeah, my Hiwatt Custom 50 is a loud MOTHER !!!!

Thus the Weber MASS that sits atop it !!!
 
Re: wattage question

A watt is a watt, bo back up and read what texas wrote, the dynamic range (what peak levels your amp can attain) is what makes it appear to be louder than a SS amp. However, I have a military certified 100 watt solid state amp that will rip your balls off, why, because it can cleanly hit 10db peaks (without clipping), meaning - it would blow the V30's in a 4x12 cabinet to shreds with one good strum of an open E chord at 1/2 volume. The amp also weighs in at about 120 lbs, has two massive torodial transformers and a series of nichicon power caps (the size of coke cans) for extra reseve power, it's primary usage was to drive a shaker table (for vibration testing). Don't be fooled in believing SS watts are not as "loud" as tube watts, it's all about the ability of the amp to drive a load (speaker) beyond the amps rated wattage (headroom). Billy Gibbons tours using four Marshall Valvestate amps, no tubes.... He gets plenty loud.
 
Back
Top