misterwhizzy
Well-known member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Crusty, I laughed at your post, and I'm glad you're reading the thread.
Crusty, I laughed at your post, and I'm glad you're reading the thread.
What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
- Thread starter misterwhizzy
- Start date
Rowan
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Haha Killswitch's video is way sweeter.
Haha Killswitch's video is way sweeter.
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Means to me a gray area. not fully defined as of the time of this posting. Basically a battle of Hot Rod Marshall vs. OTT gain , and varying degrees of not yet fully agreed upon gain in between. One thing it isnt in my mind is a Plexi or a tweed bassman, I think we can agree on that.
Your super tight and grainey Recto style gain on one end, and your more open, organic SLO tone on the other. I know very very little about it. One thing is for certain. I have the Marshall Hot rod sound I need and got it very cheaply-a Crate Jackson through a Genz Benz Lynch 2x12 cab. It may not be as fluid as a SLO< but its thousands and thousand of dollars less, and very satisfying.
I DO want a High gain sound. Like many, and the point of this thread, is that the definiton of this sound is still in its infancy, and I don't really know what it is.
We know Mesa on the low end, , Bogner Uber on the high end, VHT , Diezel , Fryette, and others , but are they reliable.? They are really pushing the limits of that transfromer I would think with all that gain, and smallish transformers..
Means to me a gray area. not fully defined as of the time of this posting. Basically a battle of Hot Rod Marshall vs. OTT gain , and varying degrees of not yet fully agreed upon gain in between. One thing it isnt in my mind is a Plexi or a tweed bassman, I think we can agree on that.
Your super tight and grainey Recto style gain on one end, and your more open, organic SLO tone on the other. I know very very little about it. One thing is for certain. I have the Marshall Hot rod sound I need and got it very cheaply-a Crate Jackson through a Genz Benz Lynch 2x12 cab. It may not be as fluid as a SLO< but its thousands and thousand of dollars less, and very satisfying.
I DO want a High gain sound. Like many, and the point of this thread, is that the definiton of this sound is still in its infancy, and I don't really know what it is.
We know Mesa on the low end, , Bogner Uber on the high end, VHT , Diezel , Fryette, and others , but are they reliable.? They are really pushing the limits of that transfromer I would think with all that gain, and smallish transformers..
Lazarus1140
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
My crowd is more into post modern rogaine.
My crowd is more into post modern rogaine.
eschoendorff
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
I guess I'll answer a question with a question: does it matter?
With all the modern hi gain amps, does anyone actually play with the gain knob maxed out?
With my Marshall DSL, I like the sound of a boosted red channel (gain at 7) better that with the amp's gain maxed out.
Which is higher gain? Does it matter where the gain stages are (internal, vs. internal + external)?
In the end, my experience is that the aggression and the "percussiveness" of the tone is more in how you play (how hard you hit the strings) rather than how much gain you use.
I guess I'll answer a question with a question: does it matter?
With all the modern hi gain amps, does anyone actually play with the gain knob maxed out?
With my Marshall DSL, I like the sound of a boosted red channel (gain at 7) better that with the amp's gain maxed out.
Which is higher gain? Does it matter where the gain stages are (internal, vs. internal + external)?
In the end, my experience is that the aggression and the "percussiveness" of the tone is more in how you play (how hard you hit the strings) rather than how much gain you use.
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
This, though I think the amp has a bit more to do with it than that. I have a couple vids on my photobucket of my buddy Wes rockin his Bernie Jr 7 through my old soldano-modded 800 with just an eq and he got some BRUTAL modern, and I mean Meshuggah-modern, metal tones out of that thing. That said, he was able to get them out of his Cobra, and later, his Invader 100 with no outside help, whatsoever. I think it's more of a good-amp-fiddled-with-for-today kinda thing.
Oh, yeah. BBE Maximizers still suck.
This, though I think the amp has a bit more to do with it than that. I have a couple vids on my photobucket of my buddy Wes rockin his Bernie Jr 7 through my old soldano-modded 800 with just an eq and he got some BRUTAL modern, and I mean Meshuggah-modern, metal tones out of that thing. That said, he was able to get them out of his Cobra, and later, his Invader 100 with no outside help, whatsoever. I think it's more of a good-amp-fiddled-with-for-today kinda thing.
Oh, yeah. BBE Maximizers still suck.
Petrovsk Mizinski
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
KSE tend to pretty much always have really smooth, dark, but not muffled tones. I really despise that 80s, super mid scooped, fizzy crap like the old Metallica records and I'm glad metal production moved along and people realized a more mid heavy tone with far less high end was the way to go.
Adam D is one hell of an engineer, seriously knows a thing or 100 about mic placement and amp settings to get to those tones.
Holy Diver (KSE's version) was tracked using SLO-100s and it shows in how smooth and liquid it sounds
KSE tend to pretty much always have really smooth, dark, but not muffled tones. I really despise that 80s, super mid scooped, fizzy crap like the old Metallica records and I'm glad metal production moved along and people realized a more mid heavy tone with far less high end was the way to go.
Adam D is one hell of an engineer, seriously knows a thing or 100 about mic placement and amp settings to get to those tones.
Holy Diver (KSE's version) was tracked using SLO-100s and it shows in how smooth and liquid it sounds
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Has a lot to do with speaker choice and headroom, and there's a bunch of little things that can help out.
But long story short, there's a reason you don't see a lot of high gain users with Jensens, 30w amplifiers or an open back cab... (willingly anyway, 'cause the couple I've run into all wished they had something else).
Has a lot to do with speaker choice and headroom, and there's a bunch of little things that can help out.
But long story short, there's a reason you don't see a lot of high gain users with Jensens, 30w amplifiers or an open back cab... (willingly anyway, 'cause the couple I've run into all wished they had something else).
woemoejack
New member
Mattr4president
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Hahaha I was gonna say that same thing. "Those kids and their rock music and dancing". Sounds like one of the parents from Footloose posts on the boards here. I think the amp that really defines that "sound" is a mesa dual rect. That amp sorta changed the game. I like Mesa's and 5150's and such, they're fun amps and they fit the style of music I play.
I just hate when people say "you're music doesn't say anything" and "it's just fake aggression", and "i can't understand what you're yelling about". It's music. Like "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" and "Purple Haze" had some sort of deep message and meaning. C'mon now. No offense to Hendrix/Beetles. I do enjoy classic rock for the same reasons I enjoy Hardcore/Thrash. IT'S FUN. Remember fun? It's why you all started playing guitar. It was fun, loud, and get's the chicks. I enjoy SRV as much as KSE. Good music is fun. This rant isn't aimed at the broad majority of you. you all seem pretty cool despite everyone having different musical tastes, you're all pretty helpful.
"If it's too loud then you're too old"
YOU DAMN KIDS AND YOUR HIGH GAIN AMPS!!!
GET OFF MY LAWN!
Hahaha I was gonna say that same thing. "Those kids and their rock music and dancing". Sounds like one of the parents from Footloose posts on the boards here. I think the amp that really defines that "sound" is a mesa dual rect. That amp sorta changed the game. I like Mesa's and 5150's and such, they're fun amps and they fit the style of music I play.
I just hate when people say "you're music doesn't say anything" and "it's just fake aggression", and "i can't understand what you're yelling about". It's music. Like "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" and "Purple Haze" had some sort of deep message and meaning. C'mon now. No offense to Hendrix/Beetles. I do enjoy classic rock for the same reasons I enjoy Hardcore/Thrash. IT'S FUN. Remember fun? It's why you all started playing guitar. It was fun, loud, and get's the chicks. I enjoy SRV as much as KSE. Good music is fun. This rant isn't aimed at the broad majority of you. you all seem pretty cool despite everyone having different musical tastes, you're all pretty helpful.
"If it's too loud then you're too old"
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
I feel as though I've just been quoted...
I feel as though I've just been quoted...
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Quoted for truth. Playing heavy has way more to do with sounding heavy than anything about the gear you use.
Half the time, I'm playing heavy music on a telecaster with stock single coils in it, and not because I don't have anything more appropriate to use, but because I prefer it that way.
Aside from that kind of nasally midrange honk, no one would ever guess I was using a tele through a relatively-mid-gain amp tone. It sounds like there is a lot more going on. I've just found that, by using a good authoritative pick attack, that I can get really effective metal sounds out of a simple, not-modern-by-a-longshot kind of rig.
Quoted for truth. Playing heavy has way more to do with sounding heavy than anything about the gear you use.
Half the time, I'm playing heavy music on a telecaster with stock single coils in it, and not because I don't have anything more appropriate to use, but because I prefer it that way.
Aside from that kind of nasally midrange honk, no one would ever guess I was using a tele through a relatively-mid-gain amp tone. It sounds like there is a lot more going on. I've just found that, by using a good authoritative pick attack, that I can get really effective metal sounds out of a simple, not-modern-by-a-longshot kind of rig.
Mattr4president
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Next i will put the
-Some_Dude
To make sure you receive the proper credit haha
Next i will put the
-Some_Dude
To make sure you receive the proper credit haha
Tom Huff
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
I would agree with this analysis. I'd suggest that anything with 3 or more preamp tubes isn't quite right. My amp has 3 12ax7's and should be considered in the vintage side of high gain amps.
I'd also suggest that you will hear more diode clipping than tube clipping in a modern high gain amp. Feel free to argue that.
I would agree with this analysis. I'd suggest that anything with 3 or more preamp tubes isn't quite right. My amp has 3 12ax7's and should be considered in the vintage side of high gain amps.
I'd also suggest that you will hear more diode clipping than tube clipping in a modern high gain amp. Feel free to argue that.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
...because you think you coined this phrase??
...because you think you coined this phrase??
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Yeah, you're right.
I say it every time someone posts something about any amp over X number of watts as being too loud. Thought it looked funny when someone else said it.
Yeah, you're right.
I say it every time someone posts something about any amp over X number of watts as being too loud. Thought it looked funny when someone else said it.
Jackson Distortion
New member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Solidstate amplifiers. I have a Crate that has so much gain on it, I don't even know why. SS amps generally are probably the best at pushing the gain envelope.
Solidstate amplifiers. I have a Crate that has so much gain on it, I don't even know why. SS amps generally are probably the best at pushing the gain envelope.
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)
Uggghhh...
I had a Randall combo for a while that just sounded terrible. I could NEVER get a decent high-gain tone out of it. Some of the bands mentioned in this thread have good tone, even if it is higher gain than I would ever play. None of them are using solid-state amps. Who is using solid-state amps? Anyone? Seriously?
In fact, who even makes solid-state amps anymore? Marshall MG, and who else? I think even Randall, which was the king in my mind, got out of it, unless they've still got maybe one product. But seriously, what solid-state amp is well respected today? And by solid-state, of course, I mean non-digital.
The only solid-state amp I can think of that's worth its salt (i.e. used by professionals) is the Roland stuff, and the only one of those that pros use is the Jazz Chorus, which is definitely not known as a high-gain amp.
Uggghhh...
I had a Randall combo for a while that just sounded terrible. I could NEVER get a decent high-gain tone out of it. Some of the bands mentioned in this thread have good tone, even if it is higher gain than I would ever play. None of them are using solid-state amps. Who is using solid-state amps? Anyone? Seriously?
In fact, who even makes solid-state amps anymore? Marshall MG, and who else? I think even Randall, which was the king in my mind, got out of it, unless they've still got maybe one product. But seriously, what solid-state amp is well respected today? And by solid-state, of course, I mean non-digital.
The only solid-state amp I can think of that's worth its salt (i.e. used by professionals) is the Roland stuff, and the only one of those that pros use is the Jazz Chorus, which is definitely not known as a high-gain amp.
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