What Fishman Fluence won't do

[johnstone]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Finally, to clarify this now infamous email response from someone at Fishman. As I stated, Fluence humbuckers can be split to a single coil. When an engineer or customer service person replied with the technical description of what happens to the resonant peak when you split a humbucker, it leaves out the fact that a split PAF type humbucker, for example, will have a weaker coil and higher resonant peak than a vintage Strat type of pickup.

From the infamous email from the Fishman engineer "With passive pickups, the resonance shifts upward around 40% in frequency when coil tapped." It appears that this was not left out. And is not that the key point, the coil tapped Fishman does not sound like a coil split conventional pickup. The engineer goes on to say that Fishman is making a Devin Townsend pick that will through the magic of modern electronics will emulate an actual coil split. If the pre-Devin pickups could actually recreate a conventional humbucking pickup coil split why the reference to a new pickup that actually can?

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

:ban:?

.

 

[johnstone]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

I've been reading through the posts and asked Fishman technical support a couple of things myself. Here is a list of the things they won't do.
they are wired in phase and you can't wire them out of phase - they are wired in parallel and you can't wire them in series - you can't swap out magnets on them - you can't do a coil split on them.
Now they have two voices but the things they can't do seem to outweigh the two voices.

After all of these posts nothing has been said to counter that "the things they won't do.
they are wired in phase and you can't wire them out of phase - they are wired in parallel and you can't wire them in series - you can't swap out magnets on them - you can't do a coil split on them." There was an attempt regarding coil split.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

After all of these posts nothing has been said to counter that "the things they won't do.
they are wired in phase and you can't wire them out of phase - they are wired in parallel and you can't wire them in series - you can't swap out magnets on them - you can't do a coil split on them." There was an attempt regarding coil split.

Well it looks like they can't do what you want.
You better go and find something else that won't and denigrate it too !













BTW: who pissed in your Wheaties ?

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

You keep saying "you can't do a coil split". That's patently false. Here is the wiring diagram:
http://www.fishman.com/files/fluence_humbucker_coil_tapping.pdf

It seems that you want to keep saying, since resonance doesn't shift upward, that somehow the coil split function doesn't exist, or is flawed. The Fishman person basically replied "if coil splitting is really important to you, check out the new Devin Townsend pickups". This doesn't mean the coil split on the other pickups is meaningless. Devin pretty much only uses Voice 1 as humbucking, and Voice 2 as single coil. So Voice 2 was centered around his single coil tone. It still sounds great as a humbucker though.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Can you phase invert the pickups? No. But you can't really phase invert anyone else's active pickups either. That's why this exists:
http://www.emgpickups.com/pi2.html

 

[johnstone]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

That says "coil tap" not coil split. From what I read the engineer from Fishman said clearly that you cannot "coil split". No use going around and around I yield to your superior knowledge.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

You've repeated your parallel wiring assertion. The Humbucker coils are not wired in parallel, they're series like I said before.

But you are right. You can't go in and change the wiring to parallel inside the Humbuckers. You can not really do this with anyone else's active pickups either. More importantly, the fact that these coils don't have the audible resonance shift when switching from series to parallel, or series to split, is the kind of thing that excites me as a pickup maker. So if I get two distinctly different voices per pickup, both which I believe have some improved qualities over any wire-wound pickup I've ever tried, and the trade is I have a Voice switch on my guitar instead of series/parallel, that's fine by me. If it's not fine by you, then you shouldn't buy them.

Magnet swaps: Again, find me an epoxy potted pickup that can be magnet swapped. If magnet swapping Fluence is a deal breaker for you, then so be it. An incredible amount of R&D went (goes) into each magnetic circuit, so much beyond anything I've seen at any other pickup maker. I like swapping magnets sometimes, on Fluence I have zero desire.

I've stated in other threads, that part of magnet swapping is the gauss strength but the other is a resonance shift from the inductance shift. Fluence coils don't have that problem. The magnetic circuit is about the feel and response of the pickup, and I don't have to worry about overcoming a frequency limitation.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

That says "coil tap" not coil split. From what I read the engineer from Fishman said clearly that you cannot "coil split". No use going around and around I yield to your superior knowledge.

For the life of me I can not understand what you are asking me. I really want to help you understand this. The terms coil tap and coil split are often interchanged. One use of the term is for pickups like the Duncan SSL-5 tapped, where on one coil a pickup maker will bring out a partial exit from the coil so you can tap into fewer windings, lowering the output and shifting the peak.

The other, more common occurrence is people taking a humbucker and shutting off one coil. This is referred to as a coil split and/or a coil tap, because if you think of the humbucker as one contiguous signal, then by cutting into the coil junction you're "tapping" the humbucker, or you're tapping into the coil junction. So in this case, let's assume those two terms mean the same thing. The thing you do with your Duncans, where you put the red/white wires to ground for a single coil? Or red/white to hot for the opposite single coil? That is exactly the same thing that's happening inside Fluence Humbuckers. If you still have questions, or you think what I just said contradicts the Fishman customer service reply, let us know and I'll try to clarify again.

 

[Securb]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

After all of these posts nothing has been said to counter that "the things they won't do.
they are wired in phase and you can't wire them out of phase - they are wired in parallel and you can't wire them in series - you can't swap out magnets on them - you can't do a coil split on them." There was an attempt regarding coil split.

...and you can't get a high gain tone out of a 68 Fender Deluxe, does that make it a bad or inferior product? You can't get twang out of a 59 Gibson Les Paul Burst should we throw that on the trash heap as well? What about my MXR Distortion + that won't give me a decent flange tone?

Who cares what a product can't do, we buy products for what they do. Starting a thread about what the Fluence doesn't do is ridiculous. It is evident you don't like the product, don't buy it. There are lots of us, including me that own and love Fishman products.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Finally to address the SDUGF etiquette and protocol.

One long-standing rule in the SDUGF is that because this is operated by the Seymour Duncan company, you can say whatever you want about Duncan. Duncan has people here to defend themselves and/or address customer service or quality complaints. But the rule is, we don't bash competitors here. I'm not saying you're outright bashing Fishman, and since I am a forum member who can answer any Fluence technical question, it's not really the same as when threads get shut down that have been denigrating toward another brand. The Duncan crew, as far as I understand it, values my activity here. I still answer Duncan technical questions (and other brands) and it's better for everybody to have accurate information about Fluence from the source than 3rd party interpretations.

The intent was to make this place a friendly environment to discuss ALL pickups and gear. Some companies run their forums as festivals of self love, where everything is about how great they are, and they delete threads that celebrate other companies. Here, we have always been about competition through addition, not subtraction. If Lollar does something cool like the El Rey, we all celebrate that, not look at it as "stealing a sale of a Jazz or A2Pro" because when any of us bring attention to how cool pickup swapping is, it lifts the whole category.

Regarding company affiliation and disclosure, I've had a lot of experience in this matter. Some forums want you to disclose your affiliations in your signature, to avoid a "street team" pretending they're just an average joe customer who is enthralled by one specific company all the time. Other forums see it as the opposite, that to disclose your affiliation is actually like an advertisement for the company, and they delete it or ban you for it.

Duncan is more agnostic on the subject. A lot of people know me as the guy who was Duncan's product VP for years, and therefore an expert on Duncan stuff, and now part of Fluence R&D. I also have a guitar company, and several other R&D projects. I generally don't like long signatures on forums. I usually don't use any at all, but I've considered it here because of the unique circumstance. In fact, I've even had people argue with me about Duncan stuff, sometimes things that I actually worked on! LOL So I have to be like "uh....no I'm pretty sure I'm right about that..."

 

[johnstone]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Finally to address the SDUGF etiquette and protocol.

One long-standing rule in the SDUGF is that because this is operated by the Seymour Duncan company, you can say whatever you want about Duncan. Duncan has people here to defend themselves and/or address customer service or quality complaints. But the rule is, we don't bash competitors here. I'm not saying you're outright bashing Fishman, and since I am a forum member who can answer any Fluence technical question, it's not really the same as when threads get shut down that have been denigrating toward another brand. The Duncan crew, as far as I understand it, values my activity here. I still answer Duncan technical questions (and other brands) and it's better for everybody to have accurate information about Fluence from the source than 3rd party interpretations.

The intent was to make this place a friendly environment to discuss ALL pickups and gear. Some companies run their forums as festivals of self love, where everything is about how great they are, and they delete threads that celebrate other companies. Here, we have always been about competition through addition, not subtraction. If Lollar does something cool like the El Rey, we all celebrate that, not look at it as "stealing a sale of a Jazz or A2Pro" because when any of us bring attention to how cool pickup swapping is, it lifts the whole category.

Regarding company affiliation and disclosure, I've had a lot of experience in this matter. Some forums want you to disclose your affiliations in your signature, to avoid a "street team" pretending they're just an average joe customer who is enthralled by one specific company all the time. Other forums see it as the opposite, that to disclose your affiliation is actually like an advertisement for the company, and they delete it or ban you for it.

Duncan is more agnostic on the subject. A lot of people know me as the guy who was Duncan's product VP for years, and therefore an expert on Duncan stuff, and now part of Fluence R&D. I also have a guitar company, and several other R&D projects. I generally don't like long signatures on forums. I usually don't use any at all, but I've considered it here because of the unique circumstance. In fact, I've even had people argue with me about Duncan stuff, sometimes things that I actually worked on! LOL So I have to be like "uh....no I'm pretty sure I'm right about that..."

you're again making a simple issue far more complicated than it is. This issue is one of ethics not protocol. You clearly recommended a Fishman product to a person who may not have known you affiliation with said company. That could make a significant difference in how much weight the person assigned to your recommendation.

 

[Securb]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

This issue is one of ethics not protocol. You clearly recommended a Fishman product to a person who may not have known you affiliation with said company. That could make a significant difference in how much weight the person assigned to your recommendation.

We don't expect you to tell people you work in the drive through every time you suggest someone should try a Big Mac. What's the difference?

 

[johnstone]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

We don't expect you to tell people you work in the drive through every time you suggest someone should try a Big Mac. What's the difference?

Is there a difference between a $2 sandwich and a $250 set of pickups?

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Is there a difference between a $2 sandwich and a $250 set of pickups?

Yep, you don't eat pickups unless you're stupid !

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Who wood of thought ..

[h=2]Abstract[/h] Electrical resistance and capacitance measurements were made on woody tissues of several tree species. Each tissue was above the fibre-saturation point. Values of capacitance were inversely proportional to values of resistance in woody tissues in progressive stages of discoloration and decay. With the electrode separation used, clear woody tissues had resistances of 110 to 30 kΩ and capacitances of 0.002 to 0.110 μF. Resistance and capacitance measurements of discoloured tissues were 29 to 8 kΩ and 0.005 to 0.040 μF, respectively, and those of decayed tissues were 5 to 1 kΩ and 0.60 to 0.110 μF. Either electrical measurement could be used to measure the stages of deterioration in woody tissues. Ground woody tissues, cellulose suspensions, starch suspensions, and wood equivalent solutions of potassium chloride had resistance and capacitance properties similar to those found in intact woody tissues. Electrical resistance and capacitance properties of woody tissues above the fibre-saturation point appear to be similar to those of dilute solutions of mobile ions.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Johnstone, Frank has gone over and above to try and clarify things for you.

Personally, I feel like you're breaching acceptable forum behavior by taking such a personal stance against Frank, who has been a guiding light in a dark sea of internet misinformation.

Regardless, it's time you just get over it and buy a Duncan...Fluence obviously isn't for you.

Frank shouldn't have to waste any more time defending himself.

 

[Securb]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

Frank shouldn't have to defend himself.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do

you're again making a simple issue far more complicated than it is. This issue is one of ethics not protocol. You clearly recommended a Fishman product to a person who may not have known you affiliation with said company. That could make a significant difference in how much weight the person assigned to your recommendation.

According to your join date you are new here. Welcome! Please read the Terms of Service posted here.

You are flirting with trolling Fishman and frankbalbo. Also, it takes very little digging to figure out Frank is associated with them just from a simple search of Fluence pickups on this forum alone–your ethics claim is absurd. On top of that, he has been very patient with you and has explained things extremely well. Please reciprocate.

 

[johnstone]

Re: What Fishman Fluence won't do


I deny any wrong doing on my part. I have stated the facts clearly and objectively.