What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

[verbotenco]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

In relation to my response to Orpheo earlier, here is the subsequent snippet to corroborate my point, also from Ron Kirn:

A figment of your imagination, why? Because of the psychosomatic influences your brain is laden with. What that means is, you expect to hear a difference, therefore you will hear a difference. That is why ALL honest audio comparisons are double blind tests.

 

[marvelous_seven]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

They obviously don't show Big Bang Theory in Jakarta, Indonesia.

I live in Bandung, Indonesia and I love the show. But I think I know what you meant there.

 

[verbotenco]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

I cannot believe this comes from the guy himself:

For pricing, I don’t bury it somewhere obscure. A Tele type starts at $1750 and a Strat type starts at $1950. The final price depends on the choices you make, but rest assured, the difference in quality rests only in the components chosen. Close your eyes and you cannot tell the difference between the least expensive and a more exotic guitar.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

When it comes to these discussions, I always refer to this link. http://www.ronkirn.com/quest.htm

This is the best statement on the matter that I have ever seen.

There's some good info in that blog, but also some self-contradiction. He makes a lot about the fact that your brain compensates for differences in tone/voice/etc. so that you cannot tell the difference, but then he claims the reason expensive speaker cables sound better in A/B tests is because of a minute increase in volume due to lower resistance. Which is it: can I hear the difference, or can't I?

If you think it makes a difference, then it makes a difference. If you don't think it makes a difference, then you've got one less concern to waste money on. One thing for sure, any guitar produces better tone when it is played instead of when it sits next to you while you type... :smack:

 

[shred4Him]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

There's some good info in that blog, but also some self-contradiction. He makes a lot about the fact that your brain compensates for differences in tone/voice/etc. so that you cannot tell the difference, but then he claims the reason expensive speaker cables sound better in A/B tests is because of a minute increase in volume due to lower resistance. Which is it: can I hear the difference, or can't I?

If you think it makes a difference, then it makes a difference. If you don't think it makes a difference, then you've got one less concern to waste money on. One thing for sure, any guitar produces better tone when it is played instead of when it sits next to you while you type... :smack:

Actually, that isn't a contradiction. One is about how voice can be affected by perception. The other is how perception can be affected by subtle differences in volume. Regardless, the ultimate issue is that our brains have a huge impact on how we perceive things (duh!). Does one fretboard type sound different than another? Hard to say since two pieces of the same type of wood can sound radically different. So, use what you like and let others stress over the dumb stuff.

 

[CTN]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

what it comes down to is this:

some people have really good ears and can discern subtle differences in tone. Others do not, and subtle differences are negligible to them.

For those that have good ears, different woods make a lot of difference. For those that don't, it's not a big deal.

 

[shred4Him]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

what it comes down to is this:

some people have really good ears and can discern subtle differences in tone. Others do not, and subtle differences are negligible to them.

For those that have good ears, different woods make a lot of difference. For those that don't, it's not a big deal.

That isn't arrogant in the least.

I think the point is that you can't really trust what you hear since your bias plays a huge part in the chain of hearing. That is the entire point of doing double blind tests. Removing that part of the equation to ensure accurate results. If you are not doing that, you are just fooling yourself with comments like this.

Then again, that entire argument was probably just wasted time. Your mind is already made up.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

Can you spot the difference?

Some people will find it right away. Others will take awhile, and others will totally give up on trying, don't care, and the differences are irrelevant to them because these two images are basically the same.

Hearing is no different. Some differences require heighened sensitivity, which sometimes NEED to be pointed out by others who have heard the difference. This way, you know what to tune in to, and then you hear it too.

Ever have someone say to you "Hey you hear that clock ticking?" and you say "no..........wait............YES, AAAAAAHH why did you point that out to me?!! Now it's going to be bothering me all day!!!"

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

For the record, I have traded emails with Ron Kirn and gotten into it with him on TDPRI a couple of times.

I have read both of his books.

And I can tell you - he is just like any of us - a guy with opinions. Strong ones.

It just happens that he is a great guitar builder, but he's not a god and his word is not law.

The above does not imply that I necessarily agree or disagree with anyone's opinions - just pointing out that Kirn's word is not absolute.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

I guess I completely wasted my time with this. I wonder whether I would have spent a couple of thousand dollars and months of my life building a guitar (something i'd never done before) if that piece of wood had been plywood rather than Honduran mahogany ? would you ?

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

And I can tell you - he is just like any of us - a guy with opinions. Strong ones.

It just happens that he is a great guitar builder, but he's not a god and his word is not law.

The above does not imply that I necessarily agree or disagree with anyone's opinions - just pointing out that Kirn's word is not absolute.

"The best lack all conviction while the worst are filled with passionate intensity."

- WB Yeates

 

[astrozombie]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

Can you spot the difference?

Some people will find it right away. Others will take awhile, and others will totally give up on trying, don't care, and the differences are irrelevant to them because these two images are basically the same.

Hearing is no different. Some differences require heighened sensitivity, which sometimes NEED to be pointed out by others who have heard the difference. This way, you know what to tune in to, and then you hear it too.

Ever have someone say to you "Hey you hear that clock ticking?" and you say "no..........wait............YES, AAAAAAHH why did you point that out to me?!! Now it's going to be bothering me all day!!!"

where is it?

 

[BEACHBUM]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

@verbotenco: ok. I'll feed you once, troll.

If wood doesn't matter at all, explain to me how my guitar changed drastically when I swapped the neck?

I'm pretty sure I can't explain that any better than you could explain to me why mine didn't. The only thing I can offer here is the observation that these types of debates only seem to travel in the direction of "on and on".

 

[jcthejester13]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

if fretboard wood didn't matter, i would use guitars with plastic fretboards.

Hagstrom.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

All this thread has done is to again confirm what we already knew.

That having verbotenco on ignore list is an excellent idea?

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

where is it?

You have to look closely:

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

where is it?

That's just it. If I point it out you'll never be able to "unsee" it again. Therein lies the folly of double blind tests on our senses. The only thing double blind tests reveal is the testers inability to self-focus, identify, and/or care about the delta. It's nonsense because it is not the way we choose and buy products for the sake of expression and perception. We're not interested in the lab results. Hot water heaters? Vacuum cleaners? Sure. Set neck double cutaways? No.

 

[Zhaggy]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

Obviously you made it up cause you hate my guts. Nice try a$$ white...

My last comment actually has everything to do with this discussion. It is my attempt to demonstrate that you can mess with anything but the wood to make a guitar sounds radically different.

I didn't made it up but you sure are right about the last part of that sentence. And who said I was white. Otherwise made me laugh and think about eggwhite.

And your last comment indeed doesn't have anything to do with the discussion here. What were are discussing here is whether wood has something to do with the tone and changing them make any difference. We all know that changing the pickups make a big difference. Hell, that's why most of us are here. And that's the part of this very forum. So your last comment was irrelevant to this discussion, we all agree to that what you said.

 

[CTN]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

That isn't arrogant in the least.

I think the point is that you can't really trust what you hear since your bias plays a huge part in the chain of hearing. That is the entire point of doing double blind tests. Removing that part of the equation to ensure accurate results. If you are not doing that, you are just fooling yourself with comments like this.

Then again, that entire argument was probably just wasted time. Your mind is already made up.

If you actually feel that I was being arrogant, then maybe you should spend some time with an amazing recording engineer/producer in an awesome studio and have him point out all the things that you can't hear.

I understand the need for double blind tests, but with something so subjective and highly dependent on personal differences in hearing as guitar tone...well double blind tests mean nothing.

The bottom line is "does it sound good to you, the player"? and as along as the answer is "yes", then nothing else matters. If, after answering that question, you actually find something to get concerned about and aggressively do further research into whether or not your answer is categorically true or not, then you probably don't understand the whole point of enjoying your guitar tone.

 

[constant mesh]

Re: What if fretboard wood doesn't matter?

Acoustically every detail defines the sound of a given guitar. But what is left there to be transfered to pickups and eventually to your amp is a matter of numerous debates.

I definitely think different wood has different density and hardness giving it a particular resonant frequency. But to me this "frequency" doesn't leak out to pups that much. So I can't tell the difference between maple or rosewood or ebony. And even if I could I still wouldn't be sure, what exactly caused it.
Also, for the NS vs. SS vs. EVO debate, sure there are major sonical differences between fret material, but in reality frets are burried in the wood which is softer so it dampens the resonance of the fret considerably. What you have left is just a metallic sound of a string vibrating between two metal contact points utilized on a single or two-piece wooden installation we pay big bucks for...

Personally I like poly-finished maple, super easy to clean and doesn't dry out your fingertips. But time-consuming on refrets and major operations, especialy one-piece necks.