what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

Chickenwings

Alnico 6/8
Just wondering....can i put a quartet of 6v6s into my twin (AB763)?
Will i blow it up, or will it just need to be biased?
Any info would be great.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

might as well make this a general downsizing discussion for all 6l6 amp users too.....
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

It can be done with mods to the amp, I've seen it done. I can't say what they are though, but yeah, 6V6 operate at lower voltages.

I'll bet glassman knows.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

might as well make this a general downsizing discussion for all 6l6 amp users too.....

6L6GC's are rated to 500 volts. 6V6GT's are only rated to 350. Without mods, or some sort of adapter, you'll burn up a set of 6V6's. Get some of those EL84 converters. The thing will still be plenty loud.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

if it needs mods i wont bother...cos i was juts wonderig
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

6L6GC's are rated to 500 volts. 6V6GT's are only rated to 350. Without mods, or some sort of adapter, you'll burn up a set of 6V6's. Get some of those EL84 converters. The thing will still be plenty loud.

Those are VERY general statements that in my experiences are not really true...
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

if it needs mods i wont bother...cos i was juts wonderig

EH has a 6V6 that they claim can be put into a Twin Reverb for a total of about 45 watts form a quad...never tried 'em but they are out there.

Also the JJ 6V6 is not a true 6V6's, it's based on the old 7591 tube which is like a super hot rod 6V6...they can take it but a quad will dish out about 65 watts...

If you want lower headroom it's really much easier to simply pull 2 of the 6L6's and wire it up for one speaker or get an attenuator...
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

just cuz there's two 6's in the name doesn't mean they're interchangeable.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

I've used the JJ 6V6's to replace 6L6's with great success. You gotta reduce the current considerably though...14 to 16mA is a good range. They reduce the total volume of the amp quite a bit more than the 60 or so watts they are capable of since they "warm up" at a considerably lower volume than 6L6's. two of them sit really nicely in a four power tube amp like a Twin (using both speakers) as a 6V6 likes a little more load impedance than a 6L6.

If you plan to run the amp flat out, I really don't recommend it without considerable limiting on the screens.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

Those are VERY general statements that in my experiences are not really true...

Yeah, that's going by spec sheets. Often they are not completely accurate with real world conditions. Especially with the nature of how tubes are made. I meant to advocate running on the safe side. B+ being +50 volts or so usually doesn't make me concerned. Amp manufacturers have been running higher voltages than rated spec into tubes, and Fender is definitely one of them. It doesn't mean automatic failure, but generally, it is harder on tubes. Most amps with EL84's that I have come across run the ever living piss out of them, and they usually do fine.
 
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Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

I've used the JJ 6V6's to replace 6L6's with great success. You gotta reduce the current considerably though...14 to 16mA is a good range. They reduce the total volume of the amp quite a bit more than the 60 or so watts they are capable of since they "warm up" at a considerably lower volume than 6L6's. two of them sit really nicely in a four power tube amp like a Twin (using both speakers) as a 6V6 likes a little more load impedance than a 6L6.

If you plan to run the amp flat out, I really don't recommend it without considerable limiting on the screens.

I just wanted to give my thanks to you because that gives some insight into a question I have on how I should wire up my 2x12 for a 6V6 head with 2 8 ohms spkrs. THANKS!
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

I just wanted to give my thanks to you because that gives some insight into a question I have on how I should wire up my 2x12 for a 6V6 head with 2 8 ohms spkrs. THANKS!

Hey, no problem!

I really think that too much importance gets placed on impedance matching of output tubes to speaker load, though. The ideal impedance that's listed in tube charts is part of a much larger acceptable range...much, much larger. Bandwidth and linearity are affected by playing within the range but in reality, guitar amps are neither linear or bandwidth optimized...nor would we want them to be.

The potential issues and the root of the cautions that abound these days are founded in fact but they never get mentioned...so I will. A higher load than the median (published) impedance isn't going to create a functional problem; a lot of old audio amps (juke boxes are a great example) used different load taps to limit the overall volume of amplifiers. The issue arises when you go lower. In most cases the output transformer has no issue with a mismatch in and of itself...the problems set in when the lower load offers insufficient damping to the power tubes which can cause them to arc internally. Old Marshalls were really bad for this as were most EL34 powered amps. EL34s are really reactive in comparison to 6L6s...6V6s fall somewhere in-between. Put a set of 6L6s in a 6L6 amp and say, bias it to 32mA...at full signal, the individual tube current will peak around 120mA. Now insert a set of EL34s in the same amp and bias them to the same 32mA; the individual tube current will peak around 220mA...quite a difference. This is at full signal. This is why screen limiting is so important and also why 6L6 amps typically use a 470ohm screen resistor and EL34 amps typically use a 1K. Those early Marshalls that started all the impedance mismatch talk had NO screen limiting and an impedance mismatch would eat an OT in no time at all. A modern EL34 amp with EL34s installed,set at 32mA bias current will have a peak current of somewhere around 180mA. 6L6 amps with extremely low screen limiting...such as Peavey 5150s and 6505s, also peak around 180mA.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

Thanks for the insight, glassman. I've been building a bit, but the actual operating conditions are still a bit clouded in mystery for me.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

Just putting this out there, I've had 490v on the plates of EH 6v6s for an extended period without any noticable degradation.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

Hey, no problem!

I really think that too much importance gets placed on impedance matching of output tubes to speaker load, though. The ideal impedance that's listed in tube charts is part of a much larger acceptable range...much, much larger. Bandwidth and linearity are affected by playing within the range but in reality, guitar amps are neither linear or bandwidth optimized...nor would we want them to be.

The potential issues and the root of the cautions that abound these days are founded in fact but they never get mentioned...so I will. A higher load than the median (published) impedance isn't going to create a functional problem; a lot of old audio amps (juke boxes are a great example) used different load taps to limit the overall volume of amplifiers. The issue arises when you go lower. In most cases the output transformer has no issue with a mismatch in and of itself...the problems set in when the lower load offers insufficient damping to the power tubes which can cause them to arc internally. Old Marshalls were really bad for this as were most EL34 powered amps. EL34s are really reactive in comparison to 6L6s...6V6s fall somewhere in-between. Put a set of 6L6s in a 6L6 amp and say, bias it to 32mA...at full signal, the individual tube current will peak around 120mA. Now insert a set of EL34s in the same amp and bias them to the same 32mA; the individual tube current will peak around 220mA...quite a difference. This is at full signal. This is why screen limiting is so important and also why 6L6 amps typically use a 470ohm screen resistor and EL34 amps typically use a 1K. Those early Marshalls that started all the impedance mismatch talk had NO screen limiting and an impedance mismatch would eat an OT in no time at all. A modern EL34 amp with EL34s installed,set at 32mA bias current will have a peak current of somewhere around 180mA. 6L6 amps with extremely low screen limiting...such as Peavey 5150s and 6505s, also peak around 180mA.

Awesome post....Great info buddy!
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

That's one of the really cool things you can do with some of the Mesa amps, like the Mark IV and the Heartbreaker. You can only used certain power amp settings, but the 6V6 will work just fine.

Bill
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

if you're getting tired of the 6L6's, you could always try a set of THD yellowjackets which will allow you to run EL84s without modifying your amp.
 
Re: what if i wanted to try swapping the 6L6's for 6v6's in a twin?

I can't find any information that says that you CAN'T swap out 6L6s for 6V6s anywhere online. Tubes are the "engine" of an amplifier, and while Vs aren't quite as muscular as the Ls, they're a tough little tube and should be just fine, although you will probably have a drop in headroom. Mike Soldano says you won't blow anything up. Tubes are hardy.
 
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