What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

[nuntius]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

All too often in the UK companies that proport to make high quality products ship their manufacturing overseas but continue to charge premium pricing. The only people this benefits are the shareholders and institutional investers in the form of dividend.

That sums up my feelings on the subject, as I fear the price would likely stay the same. Moving production overseas isn't a gesture of good will for customers as far as I've known.

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

This is great guys. Is there anyone who hasn't posted who would like to weigh in?

 

[Omni9X]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Evan, the impression that I always got from the Seymour Duncan company is that they are out to help their customers find the tone they want even though it may inconvenience the company.

Duncan's dedicantion to their customers increases consumer loyalty, so while the company may lose money doing things such as not outsourcing production of their products, or by giving us the 21 Day exchange policy, the Ducan company gains business because we as consumers know we can trust you.

I have Duncan pickups in all of my guitars, that's nine pickups, with two of those being wound by Seymour himself. I appreciate feeling a connection with your company, and knowing that you don't cut corners. I will continue to buy your products if you follow your current business model.

If you were to outsource the production of your pickups, your company's image to the guitar playing public would be lessened greatly, even if the tone of the pickups did not change.

I, for one, would start buying American pickups from a different manufacturer if you were to move the production of your pickups overseas, or even to Mexico. I'm sure that you would lose many potential customers, too, because they see things that are not made in the US as cheap.

I have always thought of the Seymour Duncan company as a diamond in the rough. With your honest business model, the quality of your pickups, and with you supplying Americans with jobs, I have no problem buying all of my pickups from you in the future.

Please do not alter my feelings toward you by moving production of your pickups to another country.

Thank you,
Rich.

Please allow this message to be seen at the meeting, because I feel that it sums up the feelings of many of my fellow guitarists.

 

[J Moose]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Rich's post here kinda sums up my feelings.

On an (un)related note...last year I had to buy a new cheesegrater after my ex took the old one with her. The ONLY ones I could find were made in China so I took what I could get.

After I dunno, maybe 8 or 9 months...not even a whole year...I was grating a block of jalepeno jack when the got-damn handle on my Chineese made grater snapped and I took a half pound of flesh off my knuckles. The grater was unrepairable, couldn't even really weld the handle back to it's mount.

But anyway...my parent's have a made in USA cheese grater that's GOTTA be from the 70's and that thing is still as good as it was the day it came off the factory line!

Driving through the Bethleham PA area and seeing all those empty steel mills...acres & acres and MILLIONS of square feet of buildings that are empty now that USA manufacturing has pretty much gone the way of the dodo...

It's scary.

The American surfboard industry got wiped out last year too...

I hope that doesn't end up happening to our musical instruments.

Especially not guitars!!!

I'm sure it's possible to make quality pickups in other countries, but I wonder about the consistency. Without Seymour, Scott, MJ, and others around, how can SD the company ensure that each pickup gets made right?

Case in point: When I bought my Schecter goldtop PT, it came loaded with a Duncan Designed HB103 set. Both pickups had HB103 labels right on them. Schecter's website and Duncan's website agree : "The HB-103 was patterned after the SH-6 Duncan Distortion™ set."

According to the Duncan tone chart, the Distortion neck pickup is 12.7 k ohms. But my pickup measured only 8 k. When Seymour and Scott came to toen, I took the guitar along and had a chance to talk about it with Scott, wondering if he could tell me what it was. But he flat-out didn't know - the specs didn't match up with reality. Finally, as Seymour was setting up for the jam session, he and Scott gave it a listen. They proclaimed it a "Ceramic Jazz", since Seymour could hear the ceramic magnet and the coil resistance was in line with a Jazz.

So, here's an offshore pickup with Duncan's name on it, that is completely off from its published specs. SD needs to figure out how to prevent that kind of problem if its going to manufacture off-shore.

As an American, I would really prefer to buy American, but I'm not willing to accept sub-standard products just because they are American. I think SD is unusual in that they are an American company with better quality than their foreign competitors. For that, I'm willing to pay.

It seems we have to differentiate between China and other countries. I've worked in China a couple times (once for 7 months) and came away with the impression that they don't play by the same rules as everybody else. The intellectual property issues that are in the news so much are a glaring reflection of that. Though not quite as adamant as Zerb, I consciously try to avoid anything made in China (unless I need cheap throw-away tubes for troubleshooting). Mostly this means not shopping at Walmart.

Long story short - I'm a loyal SD USA customer, but I put more stock in the 'SD' part than the 'USA'. I would be highly suspect of SD without the USA; the company would have to prove itself to me all over again. I'd probably be willing to try other brands in between.

Stay American, and I'll pay the premium for SD products. I wish the USA had more companies I could say that about.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

All too often in the UK companies that proport to make high quality products ship their manufacturing overseas but continue to charge premium pricing. The only people this benefits are the shareholders and institutional investers in the form of dividend.

In the UK Marks & Spencers switched much of their textile production from the UK to Morocco and India causing their subcontractors to lay off 4000 people. This was from a company that used to be proud trade on the fact that 90% of their goods are made in the UK. Have their prices come down, no they are still at the premium end. Initially it damaged their reputation but 6 yrs on no one can remember appart from the people that got laid off!

Heinz today made 125 people redundant and moved the production of HP sauce an archtypal British product to Holland.

I think people should value to livelyhoods of either fellow countryman more than a cheap product. After all next time it might be your job that a company moves oversees

Can anyone say Doc Martens?

We paid quite a bit more for them here because they were MIE (big bold stamp on sole), but that was OK because they were such great boots. My original pair is almost 7 years old and still going.

DM moved production overseas and the prices never dropped corporate just pocketed the money. I'll tell you what DID drop, the quality. My buddy's pair didn't last hardly a year.

Luke

 

[ErikH]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

*IF* production of my favorite pickups went elsewhere, I would be sorely disappointed. When I hear the words "Seymour Duncan", I not only think about Seymour the man, but I also think about what he has contributed to the music industry, and then the word appears, "Excellence". You don't achieve that overnight or with a production line half-way across the globe, and it's not sustained that way either.

The fact that there are musicians out there that cherish their Duncans, both old and new models, speaks volumes. Whether it's wound my Seymour, MJ or done on the production floor, it doesn't matter, you know they're made in the USA in Santa Barbara, CA by people who love what they do for an employer that cares.

Last year I came across an older JB that I later discovered had a broken coil. I called MJ up and told her the situation and read her the sticker on the bottom, "JBJ". Her reply? ..... "Yes, that's one of my babies." That reply right there told me instantly, this woman loves her work and really puts 110% in to what she does, whether it was wound yesterday or 10-15 years ago. I'm sure she sets a big example for everyone who works there. Do not let that go.

If there's a little man there playing Danny DiVito in "Other People's Money", kick him out now.

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Please allow this message to be seen at the meeting, because I feel that it sums up the feelings of many of my fellow guitarists.

All of your comments will be printed out and given to the managers a week or so before Business Planning. We'll also have copies of this thread there too in case someone didn't bring their print out.

Keep 'em comin!

 

[Robbiedbee]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

To be honest, it's the name 'Seymour Duncan' which sells me the product. I never knew they were made in the US. Unless SD make 2 seperate types of pickup, like you'll have the Made in USA Hot Rails and the Made in China Hot Rails, it doesn't make a difference.

As I say, it's all in the name/logo of Seymour Duncan.

Perhaps I haven't been brought up to value such things. I like in the UK, and the UK import a lot more than the US do, so an American is more likely to be able to find US made products as I could.

Though saying that, aside from the fact that they are good value, and come with a free high E string, Rotosound Strings are made in the UK, which was actually a selling point to me.

 

[davedvdy]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

As long as the quality remains unchanged, I'm not sure I would really care where it is made.

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

As long as the quality doesn't change its fine. As for the people who believe "Made in USA" means higher quality, look at Ford and GM cars and Gibson guitars and tell me with a straight face that it means consistency. Of course we're all used to non-American made pickups being cheap, but that's simply because of the cheap pickups we're used to seeing in low end Asian guitars. There's no reason that a well designed pickup such as a Seymour Duncan couldn't be made overseas just the same as it is in the U.S.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

On a sentimental level, it would really be sad if Seymour made their stuff outside the USA. The electric guitar is an American icon and we like them to stay that way to the extent they can.

Plus, making stuff overseas isn't always cheaper. For one thing, your freight bill is HUGE because international shipping ain't cheap.

But practically, as long as quality didn't suffer and prices didn't go up, though I have my doubts, I'd be okay with it.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

FYI Evan ,i never bouht your PUs because of the name above.I tried the Dimarzio first and i was dissapointed with the tone.still i wanted to try another Dimarzio ,and i wrote them an e-mail.
At the same day ,i used the tone wizard , and your tone clips.I was not impressed since 5-6 different Pus suited me well ,wich wasn't right.I wrote an e-mail to your CR and waited the weekend.The answers of Dimarzio and SD where totally different.And that was the biggest reason to try your PUs.I still thank ALEX SEMPLE for his help ,since he replied fast ,accurate and the result was pleasing.(btw ,the forum was a big help to "find out" if Alex where right)
There are many other things like that forum make you guys the Best company in music Business period ,But the most important things are your quality in production ,your customer service ,and your contribution to music and the musicians.
Made in U.S.A is ofcourse importatnt for many people.But still ,Ibanez is the leading guitar manufacturer in many countries.And they do not have that "great past of Rockn'Roll" ,and the customers are happy with the QC.
As long as you stay small and keep your eye on any detail as now ,you can produce your Pus anywhere on earth ,and i will buy them!

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

I'd love to hear from someone who hasn't weighed-in yet.

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

I prefer the USA label on things where craftsmanship counts. I really don't care where my CD player was made- it's an item that can't be sabatoged by cut-corner mass production. But pickups are something that have been proved ruinable by the kind of corner cutting that seems to come along with the little gold label.

In my experience, "Made in the USA" usually means a good chance of smaller production runs, more handworked detail, and better components. It may be because the overseas market has allowed companies to relegate their quick and dirty jobs to somewhere else while continuing to make their top end stuff in the US, where direct quality observation is easier.

It almost always seems like a switch to pacific rim production is accompanied by a drop in product quality. I do know there's always a first time, and if I see something that's made very well overseas, I won't hesitate to jump on it.

 

[element062]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Honestly, I couldn't care less where my pickups are made. Case in point- GFS pickups. I love them. Just as much as SD in fact and they cost a pittance. That being sad I don't think SD has to worry about competition overseas because there are far too many ignorant americans who believe that things made overseas are poor quality. Not true. The chinese, koreans etc. can put out just as good a product as americans can. Inversely americans can screw up just as much as the chinese, koreans can. Its just that since labor is soo cheap in foreign countries companies can pay workers less and use them to make budget models. People who compare something like a squier affinity strat with a USA gibson sg and say chinese made stuff is ****ty are out of thier mind. The squier is made as exactly that a budget model that is cheap to produce and fine for beginners to learn on while the gibson is made for a professional player, its manufactured to different standards.

Bottom line- If it sounds good and is well made and lasts long with no quality control issues, I couldn't care less where it was made.:smokin:

 

[Artie]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

I'd love to hear from someone who hasn't weighed-in yet.

I don't know how this one got past me. (The thread, that is.)

"Made in America" in and of itself doesn't always mean much to me. The auto industry is a perfect example. Generally, I consider imports to be of better quality than American made. Pickup trucks might be the exception. I like Swiss and Germans for kitchenware, cutlery, etc. I like the Japanese for electronics. I think Americans still hold a slight edge in computers. At least, the innards. I also think that Americans do "war machines" better than most.

There's one other area where America shines: small business. I would put Seymour Duncan in this catagory. I mean "small" as opposed to Dupont, GM, Microsoft, etc. It isn't that Seymour Duncan is made in America, per se. Its that its made in Santa Barbara. By SD employees. Duncans products and this forum have given me a peek into Duncan management, and I assume that most Duncan employees are pretty happy with their jobs, and the product they produce. Thats the essence of what I like about their products. I believe that someone is winding my pup that cares about the quality of the final product and the music that it may produce. As fine a people as the Chinese factory workers might be, I doubt they have that same concern for that coil of wire. They may not even know what it is.

As much as I hate to use the term in this context, a Chinese/Taiwanese etc pup just wouldn't have the mojo of the Santa Barbara product. In this case, I believe "mojo" might be a tangible quality.

Artie

 

[BloodRose]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Well... Where to start. First, it is a shame the many of us Americans have gotten lazy and complacent. Our culture is seemingly trying to undo many of the following and it saddens and sickens me.

But..
Knowing Duncans are made in USA means:
A sense of pride. They are GREAT pickups and we can make great things here.
A sense of quality: They ARE better than Duncan Designed and a multitude of OEM pickups that come on hundreds of guitars sold each day.
A sense of security: I know I just spent my hard earned dollars on a Seymour Duncan, so I can be assured it is made in USA and made great!
(Im not saying great things arent made elsewhere, just sharing my perception)
A feeling of brotherhood/unity. Seymour started here in the USA, he is a visionary and a brother.
Made in USA means jobs here, when so many companies are out sourcing.


Ill pay an extra buck or two for that made in USA sticker..

 

[gOgIver]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Played an instrument recently with Duncan Designed pups and they sounded within an eye-lash of thier MIA counter parts. If that were my instrument, I'd still change the pups out for American Duncan's of a different model just for the prestige and the peace of mind of not wondering if they were "top shelf". To me it would not be worth it $ wise to swap them for the same model though. The Duncan Designed pups were that close.

 

[aleclee]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

What does “Made in America” mean to you in general and with regard to the Seymour Duncan family of products?

In general (i.e., not just music gear), MIA means little if anything to me. There are plenty of wonderful and lousy products manufactured in the USA.

When it comes to music gear, it means quality materials and components with generally, but not always, good workmanship. MIA electronic stuff (amps, pedals, pickups) generally have good workmanship.

With SD, it means quality components, good workmanship, and responsive customer service (e.g., MJ). Of course, even the import stuff (e.g., stompboxes) seems to be pretty good, too.

That's not to say that stuff made on the other side of the Pacific Rim is junk. There are many wonderful products made in Asia. I'd single out Schecter and PRS as guitar brands whose offshore craftsmanship is quite good. However, more often than not, stuff that's manufactured overseas cuts cost in areas other than labor. Even as I hold up the MIK PRS guitars as examples of good craftsmanship, I've criticised their newest imports as having crap for electronics/hardware and inconsistent quality wood.

If, as I suspect, you're contemplating moving some production south of the border or west of the Pacific, I'd suggest that you analyze what portion of your unit cost is made up by labor and just how much cost efficiency there is to be gained there. Balance that against the cachet of "Made in America" and you have a pretty good idea of what you stand to gain/lose. The one assumption I'm making is that any imported SD pickups would have the same quality components that today's US-made pickups enjoy. If not, I don't see what they'd have to differentiate themselves vs. their "Duncan Designed" peers.

If the question is really about the benefit of manufacturing other products (e.g., stompboxes) in the US instead of in Asia, I don't think you stand to gain too much with US production. Asian electronics don't suffer the same stigma as instruments--anyone who follows the pricing on MIJ Boss pedals is very aware of that--and modern manufacturing methods are much more accepted with electronics than they are with guitars.

...at least that's my opinion

 

[noth]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups?

Geesh, Evan, you guys are killing me; I've got work to do!! Proves what a great site and forums SD has.

There's no doubt America is losing its grip on manufacturing worldwide. Our quality has gone down. Ask yourselves: Are you confronted more by competent or incompetent people in all walks of life here? Do you find yourslef complaining that no one knows how to do their job anymore? It's just a matter of time before the asian countries surpass us in most areas of manufacturing. And the cost of labor, well, that's a whole other serious issue in itself. As a small manufacturer for over thrity years, even I am presently considering off shore possibilities. We are losing the ability to compete, and I find, at least for the vanishing middle class, there is less and less disposable income, so people are looking for quality at lower prices.

Now if it's true the raw material costs of a pickup are still low, and you can retain a very healthy profit margin, and maintain prices that customers will still bear, then perhaps you can continue domestically.

My prediction, none the less, is that, like many of us, you will most likely continue to transfer more and more manufacturing to off shore facilities. Quality will not be an issue once you find the right one, and while it can be difficult, it is becoming easier each year. What may be left for domestic work could be your specialized items, your cream of the crop, or perhaps even USA versions of your foreign made pups - ironic, isn't it - could be kind of a reversal.

I am very impressed that SD shares this with its forum members. It's obvious yours is a very special company.

Good luck in your retreat/meetings.

Noth