What makes a really great Strat?

Re: What makes a really great Strat?

However, to capture that sound you still need to duplicate what was used. Otherwise there would be no difference in a great Strat and a cheap import! Pot metal bridge, plywood body, huge neck reinforcement, etc. I get your point that if Leo Fender was around and invented the Strat today, he very well may have created the Cort factory in Korea or even the Chinese factories. I also grant the fact that Fenders are NOT an epitome of luthiery, but they DID use materials and processes that were "better" than cheap guitar manufactures use today.

Unfortunately I don't think we have unearthed any secret way to select a body and wood in this thread. It still seems to come down to playing some until the "better" ones make themselves known.

Wood by its very nature is variable. You can argue the materials were better yes (depending on the price point your comparing in some instances modern made instruments are just as good if not better) but the processes no. Sorry but wood doesnt care if its shaped by hand or by a cnc machine.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Definitely. Certainly a more consistent product is being made today than ever before. The fact that you can get an import guitar that performs as well as they do is amazing.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Definitely. Certainly a more consistent product is being made today than ever before. The fact that you can get an import guitar that performs as well as they do is amazing.


Well dont get me wrong I'm not saying that an import today equals what was made in the 50's i'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying the magic and the secrets arent so secret or mysterious. One big place I think the modern imports really stink is the finish the 1/8th inch thick plastic sounds like poop.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

We might as well be arguing about chocolate cake. At least we get to eat it afterwards. ...Or while arguing if you wish. ;)
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Sorry, complex topic = long answer...

I've only owned 4 Strats and all are/were so different in sound. I also played a fair number of Strats while looking for the ones I bought, but in my experience and opinion, Strats are like women. You can experience a bunch and still not understand them completely.

i lol'ed, its so true, it seems to be a combination of how all the parts work, so it depends....
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

I read an article many years ago from a guy who claimed to be Steive Ray's tech. Stevie called his #1 guitar a '62 (I think) but this tech claimed it was actually a '64. But the pickups were marked on the back by hand with "62" & so Stevie always called it a '62. You can tell from the pics of the guitar (both recent and from film footage when Stevie played it) that it was "well loved". Maybe that has something to do with it, maybe not.

Stevie once claimed that the pickups had much to do with the tone, something about the "vintage" manufacture. Maybe there was, maybe not. The tech claimed it was a combination of things including the pickups, pots, wiring, the selection of the wood - not just the species but the specific blank that was used to make the guitar - Swap Ash in the case of Stevie's #1, the saddles, the nut, the fingerboard material, the shape of the neck, the string trees, etc. All of it added up to make the guitar sing or suck, lots of it was up to chance.

This tech claims that part of the nature of the Strat is that it is a combination of low budget materials and assembly techniques that make it ripe for experimentation. And it is the experimentation which is the key to the Strat's success. If you don't like what you hear it is reasonably cheap & easy to change - for better or worse. In the case of Stevie's #1 the trick was to maintain the sound quality as the guitar aged and parts wore out. It was easy to swap out a nut or a volume knob or a saddle, but not so easy to obtain the identical sound quality after the replacement. Stevie had a custom shaped maple neck made for all his Strats which made the guitar easier for Stevie to play but could very easily effect the sound quality. This was the reason that Stevie, and lots of other artists, only trust their instruments to a specific tech.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Would you parts-o-caster one or start with a production guitar and modify it?
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Would you parts-o-caster one or start with a production guitar and modify it?

Nothing wrong w/ either.

At least with production models,you can play a bunch & thin the herd from there.
A lot to be said for an unplugged Strat that's got a lot of "zing" to it,for lack of a better term.

.02
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

I've got two Strats... an original '59 and a 2000 MIM. I can't tell them apart sound-wise. Neither can too many others when they are recorded.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

That's very interesting Mr. Twister!

I'd say for the most part the player. Strats separate the men from the boys. The main reason certain Gibby fan boyze around here bag on them.

A good tech/repairman can go a long way towards making a mediocre Strat very good or great. Also fresh strings make a big difference.

A proper set up can go a long way. Correct amount of relief in the neck. Pick up height can change the tone and if there to close pull your strings out of tune. A good fret dressing.
I definitely feel like Fenders in general are a bit more of a "player's guitar" in the sense that playing style and personality comes through a bit more (an in turn require more from the player to pull those tones out).

Regarding setup, I've always thought that a bit higher action and thicker strings makes you work a bit more, and that translates into the signature Strat tone. Would you guys agree to that or is your idea a bit different as to what entails a great setup?

(This whole thread has been a way for me to gather info and either apply it to my current Strat or start over. I really appreciate everyone's input thus far!)
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Regarding setup, I've always thought that a bit higher action and thicker strings makes you work a bit more, and that translates into the signature Strat tone. Would you guys agree to that or is your idea a bit different as to what entails a great setup?
I agree with that for the most part. A fine set up and "plays like butter" is essential to a Charvel type strat and how that is used, but I think your thinking more of a vintage Fender strat and how those are used.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

Would you parts-o-caster one or start with a production guitar and modify it?

If you're trying to be true to the recipe you'll almost have to buy a aftermarket body because most of the OEM bodies are bucker routes.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

For me, what makes a great strat, before just about anything else, is its acoustic properties, which to me are a byproduct of how tight the neck / body joint is, whether the bridge is set properly (or even better, flush and possibly blocked), and even little quirks like tap-toned woods. You don't want destructive resonance, but rather constructive resonance. If that resonance exists, then the rest can be worked on in the electronics to reverse any shortcomings in amplified sound. Strangely enough, I'm also not a fan of superlight strats, but at the same time, I don't like the strat that's potentially a 1977 Les Paul Custom in drag. As far as neck pocket goes, the best thing I ever did for my strat's sustain was to put machine screws and inserts into it; allowing for an extremely tight neck / body joint, and beyond that, making sure there are as many connecting planes between body / neck (ie: sides of neck and back of neck) so that the vibrations resonate as much as possible. Lastly, taking out the strat bridge and putting in a callaham setup with vintage bent saddles was the best thing I did for both preventing broken strings, and for the resonance and improving vibration transfer.

I'm almost tempted to put in higher tension springs in order to focus the sound further, as I don't like flub. I like a tight, focused sound in my playing, but that's just someone who has to work with a mahogany strat.

Jason
 
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Re: What makes a really great Strat?

For me, what makes a great strat, before just about anything else, is its acoustic properties, which to me are a byproduct of how tight the neck / body joint is.

I think a tight neck/body joint is a sign of good workmanship rather than acoustic properties. There's lots of Fenders with sloppy pockets that sing sweetly. A big thing is for me is to make sure its seated tightly to the end of the pocket.

A too tight neck/body joint can result in finish cracks around the neck/body joint.

Wood screws are a proven thing - they can strip the neck holes over time though. I think a problem with inserts is that if the screws are too tight, the neck plate can pillow and the corners dig into the wood. You take the good with the bad.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

I think a tight neck/body joint is a sign of good workmanship rather than acoustic properties. There's lots of Fenders with sloppy pockets that sing sweetly. A big thing is for me is to make sure its seated tightly to the end of the pocket.

A too tight neck/body joint can result in finish cracks around the neck/body joint.

Wood screws are a proven thing - they can strip the neck holes over time though. I think a problem with inserts is that if the screws are too tight, the neck plate can pillow and the corners dig into the wood. You take the good with the bad.

First point is true, however a tight neck / body joint means that string vibrations have an easier time travelling and that there's less flub / potential for each part to shift freely. I will agree that too tight of a neck joint can cause stress cracks though. However, I've also played several strats where the pocket had - on both sides (upper horn and lower horn sides) enough room to fit dimes on either side. That's not shimming, that's just flat out poor work. The test for me is twofold: one, is there a LOT of wood / wood contact (ie: no paint, stickers, etc.,) and two is there no space needed for shims (and even better, can the neck hold up the body without screws. What does this tell me? Odds are very good that the guitar, when plucked / strummed / chorded, is going to vibrate as much as a singular piece as possible, in spite of whatever multi-piece conditions predispose it. The greater the "area of contact" is between the neck and the body, the more area the vibrations have to travel between neck / body, and thus the stronger the potential vibrations can be.

As far as machine screws go. I went with stainless screws / stainless inserts. This allows for maximum clamping power, and further pushes the neck into the pocket as well - further improving the joint's contact area. Yes, I know I've probably bent the neckplate a bit in a convex shape, but the flaw with wood screws you stated - the ability to cross-thread, and thus strip, the screw holes - made me go to machine screws. I will say that once I put them in, whenever the lower three strings are strummed open, I can feel air movements on my fingers at close proximity to the strings. Why? The vibrations carry that well when the joint is that strong. IMHO, the only thing stronger than a tight joint with machine screws would be a guitar that is wholly one piece (ie: the neck and body are a single contiguous piece of wood. By exploiting and maximizing the acoustic properties through the improvement of joint connections as well as a good joint (for starting point), it makes the guitar more resonant, and thus a greater natural volume (which translates - USUALLY - into better tone, although there is a strat at the GC near my house with PHENOMENAL acoustics, but horrific electronics... and it's a CS, so I'm that much more reticent to procure it).

Anyway, I do wish that my strat had more "great strat" things - and that to me means a fatter - but not flubby - sound. I would like to have had a nitro coat instead of Poly, and perhaps thicker springs so I wouldn't have to use 5 springs to keep the bridge clamped down (again, the less stuff that can wiggle / move, the more resonance / acoustic loudness) we can get. I guess then my perfect strat would mix the coating on a wildwood thin skin, the neck of a '59, the compound radius and "inlaid board" of an american select hss, and a bevy of pickguards to suit my needs. The modularity of the strat alone, makes it so great. You could play a set with low output pickups, and in 15 to 20 minutes, put in a new pickguard and have a screaming monster.

Jason
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

What a great discussion so far. I am a Strat guy through and through. I've got lots of experience mixing necks and bodies to get the sounds I'm looking for. I've tried many methods of divining which necks will work with particular bodies, and vice versa, and I have to tell you I've had no luck with that. You just have to try them. For example I had a neck that I thought was just too dead sounding so I put it on a body I didn't care for that much. To my surprise the combo was amazing. It doesn't usually happen that way, but it can.

Based on some of the things you're asking about, I'm going to offer up my methods for choosing which parts I use.

1. If you can, find an existing strat that does what you want.
2. Review #1.
3. If you can't do the above, the next step is to find the neck shape that suits you best. Is this off the rack Fender or something else? My personal preference is a mid 70's back profile.
4. Once you have a shape that you like, beware of dead necks. Sometimes they'll surprise you, but usually a dead sounding neck is the kiss of death for any build.
5. Choose your body wood carefully. I prefer the tone of Swamp Ash in general, but pieces vary of course.
6. I prefer 6 screw bridges, usually Callaham builds, but they do sound different. I like the extra brightness and sustain they usually bring.

In general if you get it sounding the way you like acoustically you can dial in the electronics without too much hassle. People discuss pups a lot with strats for a good reason; they have a big effect on the final tone of the build. For vintage tones I have a few I like but that's really taste and style dependent.

Hope that helps.
 
Re: What makes a really great Strat?

FWIW, the common reason for space between neck and neck pocket sides isn't that they used the wrong router template. They used too fresh wood and it shrunk. Can be either neck or body.

Doesn't change the fact that many guitars with that problem sound great (presumably after the wood ages after all).

I remain convinced that the reason for all this phenomenon (that neck pocket space doesn't matter), and the reason for bolt-ons often coming out so great compared to glued in neck, is that the wood compression from the screws plays a big role. Instead of just pulling on the surface like in a glue mount the bolt-on mount highly compresses the bottom of the neck pocket in the body, and more than half of the depth of the neck end.
 
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