What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

[HolyDirt]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Not neccessarily. This only holds true assuming the smaller wire is incapable of handling the load of the amplifier. I'd bet my next paycheck that no one can hear an audible difference between a properly sized wire and an oversized wire in a speaker cab.

Keep in mind also that high end speaker cable is designed to deliver signals as cleanly as possible by adding no coloration and shielding other undesirable signals. This stuff is designed for efficiency and sound quality, not coloration (distortion) of the signal. Therefore, unless the wires are clearly undersized, then there is no reason to swap them out. Any tonal characteristics of speaker wire would likely have more to do with conductor material and the shielding.

I didnt say it would be a big differance, And i wasnt trying to compare normal with oversized cable, i was speaking of the general assumption that the bigger the cable, the less resistance. I agree, the material of the cable would make a bigger differance, but speaker wire doesnt usually have shielding, at that point, it is amplified so much, interference isnt a problem.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

The speaker cable for car bass subwoofers is way too thick and wont even fit into the holes on the input jack of the cab. I guess I will have to go with thinner cable. Any suggestions?

 

[Young Angus]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Im pretty sure speaker cable doesnt matter "that" much...the stuff coming out of the amp and to the speakers is all high level anyway and like screamin daisy said it shouldnt pick up any mexican radio stations...although i do get some aliens on mine, im pretty sure they were talking about taking over the world

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

I dont know about wire inside the amp yet but a cable from the head to the cab definateley makes a difference. My freinds all agree and they are as picky as I am. TRUST TRUST your ears.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

I dont know about wire inside the amp yet but a cable from the head to the cab definateley makes a difference. My freinds all agree and they are as picky as I am. TRUST TRUST your ears.

+1

 

[sanrafael]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Trust your ears, but design your listening tests carefully.

Let's think about this:
What are the properties of speaker wire?
1. Resistance. Measure the resistance of the speaker wire. (This is hard; it is really small, and you will have to subtract out the resistance of the leads of the meter, if you can get a reading at all.) Measure the resistance of your speaker. (a little less than eight ohms, you can measure this). The speaker wire is much less. Very nearly all the power from your amp goes into the speaker. The cable resistance is not a significant effect
2. Inductance. The inductance of the speaker coil is a lot larger than the inductance of the cable; again it cannot do much.
3 Capacitance. Capacitance matters in high impedance circuits like the pickup. Cable capacitance matters in the cable from the guitar to the amp. The impedance of the speaker is hundreds of times lower. No significant effect here.

So what does that leave you with? Nothing. And that is what you will have in your wallet if you spend all your time buying expensive new speaker cables and trying them out.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

So what does that leave you with? Nothing. And that is what you will have in your wallet if you spend all your time buying expensive new speaker cables and trying them out.

Woah! Calm down buddy. You're going to give yourself a heart attack someday.

I didn't know we were discussing high end cables. I though we were discussing cable guages along with cables in general. I'm pretty sure something would sound odd if I wired up my cab using 26g wire.....no matter how expensive it is.

 

[Hellion]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

I've found that 14 guage speaker wire is heavy enough to handle pretty much anything. It's not that expensive and while I don't think you'll be able to detect a noticeable difference in sound, you can rest assured that you've got excellent power handling capability in your speaker wire!!!!

 

[Marcel]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

I dont know about wire inside the amp yet but a cable from the head to the cab definateley makes a difference. My freinds all agree and they are as picky as I am. TRUST TRUST your ears.

+2

 

[sanrafael]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Woah! Calm down buddy. You're going to give yourself a heart attack someday.

I didn't know we were discussing high end cables. I though we were discussing cable guages along with cables in general. I'm pretty sure something would sound odd if I wired up my cab using 26g wire.....no matter how expensive it is.

Well, high end cables were mentioned by somebody; didn't mean to get you upset.

If you used 6 feet of 26 wire (3 going to cab and three returning) you would have .024 ohms and would lose about 3 percent of your power at 8 ohms (a lot less than 1 db). Why do you think you would hear that? If you average 100 watts, you would dissipate 1 watt per foot of cable. The cable would get a little warm, so you should use larger wire for safety reasons. Very long runs of cable should use correspondingly larger wire to keep the total resistance down.

Also consider this. The matching transformer in your tube amplifier has primary and secondary windings. The resistance of the secondary appears directly in series with the speaker (for computing losses in the transformer), and it is larger than the .024 ohms mentioned above. The primary winding is higher resistance, but its effect is transformed down by the square of the turns ratio. It generally comes out to a similar value in its effect. Also the transformer has some losses in the iron core which appear as an effective series resistance to the speaker. There is really very little point in trying to hear the effect of a small amount of speaker wire resistance when there is already so much resistance in the circuit. And remember, the biggest resistance of all is the speaker coil. Most of the power goes into heating the coil; only a little goes into sound.

 

[sanrafael]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Oh, I forgot to calculate the skin effect. It gets worse at higher frequencies; at 5 KHz, the frequency at which the response of a 12 inch guitar speaker gets pretty small, the skin effect would increase the resistance by less than .03 percent over the value at dc with the 26 gauge wire. The percentage loss goes up pretty fast with increasing wire diameter. For 12 gauge the effect would be about 3 percent. So if you really needed 12 gauge for some really long run, it would not do quite as well as you might expect.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Oh, I forgot to calculate the skin effect. It gets worse at higher frequencies; at 5 KHz, the frequency at which the response of a 12 inch guitar speaker gets pretty small, the skin effect would increase the resistance by less than .03 percent over the value at dc with the 26 gauge wire. The percentage loss goes up pretty fast with increasing wire diameter. For 12 gauge the effect would be about 3 percent. So if you really needed 12 gauge for some really long run, it would not do quite as well as you might expect.

You definateley know more about the technical aspects of cables. I only know what my ears tell me. Not even sure about guages but the company that makes the cable is what I am talking about. I just received $280 worth of Voodoo cables. I am not rich but tone means that much to me. I am not the only one of my buds that bought a crapload of Voodoo cables either. THEY DEFINATELEY SOUND BETTER THAN ANYTHING I HAVE TRIED AND WORTH EVERY PENNY. At first I thought, "oh yeah, right a cable makes that big of a difference!" It doesnt make 90% difference but when you combine the 20% imrovement in tone along with the amp, pickups, guitar etc. Then you get about a 90% better tone than you started with. I am only fine tuning my setup and its not for everyone. Hell, for the first 13 years I played I JUST PLUGGED INTO MY 5150 AND MARSHALL CAB AND SAID, iF ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR VAN HALEN ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I HAVE SINCE FOUND THE TONE THAT "I" HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR AND IT INCLUDES ALOT OF STUFF FROM VOODOO AMPS. TO EACH HIS OWN THOUGH.

 

[sanrafael]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

In electronics, one of the most critical places is where one thing connects to another. Often, differences come down to connectors. Its great that you have found what is right for you, and I will take a look at those cables when I get a chance.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Just rewired the inside of my Mesa cab with MONSTER brand car speaker cable 16 guage. It bareley fit into the holes and was a pain in the ass but I have to say it was worth it. It made the lows quicker in the time delay much like a BBE. It sounds about 5% fuller now also. I also went thru all of the Voodoo cables. They all sound a little different from each other as far as the ones with strait plugs have a little less bass and more highs and a slighlty more hallow tone than the ones with 1 right angle plug and 1 strait plug. They use Neutrick ends that are super heavy duty. The new ones actually sound hotter amd have more thump than my original, 6 month old cord. They are all 20 ft. I did buy some 3 ft cords to replace my George L cords in the rack and It sounds alot fuller and less noise and high end peirce than the George L. I love these cables. And yes I have a 3 ft cable for the head to speaker. I only wish I could replace all of the tiny George L cables with these. Ok I know I sound like a kiss ass for Voodoo amps but I feel very strong about the quality these guys put their name on as it has ended my tone search. Good luck in your tone endeavors.

 

[rhmcfarland]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

FWIW, Carr Amps use Analysis 9 speaker cable, claiming that it adds low end clarity. The stuff is expensive. I've seen other speaker cable even more expensive (like to the point of being truly ridiculous).

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

FWIW, Carr Amps use Analysis 9 speaker cable, claiming that it adds low end clarity. The stuff is expensive. I've seen other speaker cable even more expensive (like to the point of being truly ridiculous).

Working in the hi end, I can tell you, there are cables so expensive it'll make your teeth ache!!!!

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

FWIW, Carr Amps use Analysis 9 speaker cable, claiming that it adds low end clarity. The stuff is expensive. I've seen other speaker cable even more expensive (like to the point of being truly ridiculous).

$19.99 for a whole spool at radio shack. It is blue/silver with clear tubing areound both wires. 16 guage. I am sure there is better cable. Does anyone know what the bomb cable is for wiring the inside of your cab? The wire looks silver but they say it is copper?
There is another spool next to it that is copper looking but it is 20 guage???Whats better??? Radio Shack people did not have a clue.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

Working in the hi end, I can tell you, there are cables so expensive it'll make your teeth ache!!!!

You mean like $1,419 for a 10 foot cord?

http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/speakercables.htm

or how about $5400 for a 10 foot guitar cable?

http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/pro_guitar_cables.htm

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

You mean like $1,419 for a 10 foot cord?

http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/speakercables.htm

or how about $5400 for a 10 foot guitar cable?

http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/pro_guitar_cables.htm

OH MY GOD. That is f in rediculous. I thought I was bad. Man who has that kind of money? I bet the only people that can afford those dont have time from working 24/7 to even play guitar?? Unless your already signed to a major label. WOW?

 

[Quencho092]

Re: What tonal difference (even minute) will fatter speaker cable (head to cab) make?

does anyone really buy that, i mean if you compare a good quality car audio wire to that analysis plus stuff, im sure the ear cannot tell the difference.