What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

[ratherdashing]

So here's the deal:

I have a Mesa Stiletto Ace half stack, which I love. It's the heart of my rig and the main source of my tone. It's two channels, and I have them set for a nice chimey almost-breaking-up clean, and a chunky, saturated high gain.

I also have a few pedals I use to get some "in between" tones. My Distortron through the clean channel gets me that old Marshall-y crunch, but it's not very useful through the high gain channel. My Raptor is set to add a bit of fat overdrive to whatever else I have running.

With the Stiletto and the two pedals I have a lot of awesome rock tones at my disposal. Have a listen to my band's stuff from our first album to hear what I mean (see link in signature). I love my tone on that album.

However, lately I've been wanting to incorporate a really good modern metal tone as well, and I've hit a wall there with my current gear. The Stiletto, as sweet as it is, doesn't really do that tight, monstrous high gain tone a la Recto, Engl, and so on.

The way I see it, I have the following options:

1. Replace the Stiletto with a do-it-all amp (Mark V, Roadster, etc.). This would suck because I'd be giving up an amp I love, but hopefully the amp that replaces it would be able to cop those tones.

2. Get a second amp head (Recto?) and an ABY switch. I'd get to keep the Stiletto, but there are logistical and cost issues with this obviously.

3. Get a pedal that does a good approximation of the tone I'm looking for, such as a Wampler Triple Wreck or a Blackstar HT-DISTX.

4. Something I haven't thought of.

What do you guys think?

 

[Bludave]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

I like the option of using two amps. I do that... but in all fairness to you I have rarely gigged with two amps. It would be a huge PITA the move all that gear. So I think the option I would pursue would be finding an amp that will give you as much as you want. I know your position well. I went through it not long ago. I had a Fender Super Reverb but wasn't getting enough crunch out of it. I would up buying a Marshall & a/b'ing the two amps & it worked wonderful. Today I am A/B'ing a Bogner Shiva & a Komet 60. It is tonal bliss! When I gig(I am playing mostly blues & blues-rock) I use a Deluxe Reverb. with just a few pedals.

The type of A/B or A/B/Y you use is important. I went through a few of them. DON'T BUY THE MORLEY A/B/Y. It sucks a lot of tone and is noisy. I have a Loopmaster A/B/Y. IF I had to do it all over I would have wound up with the Lehle A/B/Y. It's a great pedal with built in ground loop transformers and is totally silent in switching from one amp to the other. It really is a great way to go.

 

[lpmarshall]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

The Splawn Quickrod has 3 gears, and the 3rd gear can certainly do boosted JCM800 metal tones. The cleans on it are passable, but not my ideal clean chimey tone.

A pedal is probably going to be the quickest (and cheapest) route up front. If you don't like a pedal with your rig, you can unload it quicker than an amp and try something else. If you can't find a pedal you like, then you can move on to other options.

From the options you listed, I'd suggest 3, 2, 1 in order that way you hold on to the Stilleto as long as possible. I'd hate to see you get rid of an amp you already dig.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Try the Wampler. It is the least expensive of the options you've considered and the simplest solution logistically. If it won't provide the target tones there is no real loss. You will still have a great pedal.

No. I have not tried a Wampler Triple Wreck, but I own the Ecstacy and it is superb.

 

[lex666]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Plz correct me if I'm wrong, but the Stiletto runs on EL34's, right? Have you tried it with 6L6's?

I'm thinking that should give you a tight, modern heavy sound. I know you like the original sound of the EL34's, but you might find a nice compromise using 6L6's...

Otherwise, I'd get the Mark 5. I could go on for days about how flexible this amp is. You really do get 3 channels of pretty much whatever you want. Add any of those pedals you mentioned and the possibilities are endless.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Plz correct me if I'm wrong, but the Stiletto runs on EL34's, right? Have you tried it with 6L6's?

I'm thinking that should give you a tight, modern heavy sound. I know you like the original sound of the EL34's, but you might find a nice compromise using 6L6's...

Otherwise, I'd get the Mark 5. I could go on for days about how flexible this amp is. You really do get 3 channels of pretty much whatever you want. Add any of those pedals you mentioned and the possibilities are endless.

The Stiletto is one of the few Mesa heads that can't run on both types of tube (at least not without a mod). It's EL34 only.

Funny enough, I was actually thinking of doing the opposite: get a new series Recto and run it with EL34's for a more Stiletto-ish feel.

 

[glassman]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Since you like everything else your Stiletto does, I'm going to work around that so you don't lose what you already have and like.

The Stiletto, like most EL34 amps, get more midrange prominent as the level goes up which doesn't lend to making a very convincing modern metal tone. It sounds as though you probably have enough gain on tap with an overdrive pushing the preamp for a modern metal tone but that midrange hump turns it into more of an 80's hair band metal tone.

I'd work in the post-preamp area and try either an EQ in the loop to pull out some of the midrange or even a Sonic Stomp...these work really well at turning a high gain Marshall into more of a modern metal metal amp. The EQ may have more versatility since you can boost and cut while the Sonic Stomp adds some articulation with the bass and treble boost which can dramatically tighten things up.

The Stiletto has its own groove. If you like what it does, moving to another amp will likely cause you to lose that. Selecting another overdrive will still leave you battling what an EL34 does naturally when driven and will likely require you to dial all the midrange out of the front end so you don't have too much at the back end. Using the loop, you can trim selectively.

 

[jeremy]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

i think a good eq in the loop is the best way to go

 

[lex666]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

The Stiletto is one of the few Mesa heads that can't run on both types of tube (at least not without a mod). It's EL34 only.

Funny enough, I was actually thinking of doing the opposite: get a new series Recto and run it with EL34's for a more Stiletto-ish feel.

Really? Aww dude, that sucks. :28:

For the price of a Mark 5 save a few extra $$$ and get a RoadKing.... 6L6's and EL34's on tap. I'm not sure how close the Roadking will sound to a Stiletto, but you'll have complete flexibility, and only have to carry 1 head.

I'm sure you already know how awesome a Roadking is so all I will say is...

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Since you like everything else your Stiletto does, I'm going to work around that so you don't lose what you already have and like.

The Stiletto, like most EL34 amps, get more midrange prominent as the level goes up which doesn't lend to making a very convincing modern metal tone. It sounds as though you probably have enough gain on tap with an overdrive pushing the preamp for a modern metal tone but that midrange hump turns it into more of an 80's hair band metal tone.

I'd work in the post-preamp area and try either an EQ in the loop to pull out some of the midrange or even a Sonic Stomp...these work really well at turning a high gain Marshall into more of a modern metal metal amp. The EQ may have more versatility since you can boost and cut while the Sonic Stomp adds some articulation with the bass and treble boost which can dramatically tighten things up.

The Stiletto has its own groove. If you like what it does, moving to another amp will likely cause you to lose that. Selecting another overdrive will still leave you battling what an EL34 does naturally when driven and will likely require you to dial all the midrange out of the front end so you don't have too much at the back end. Using the loop, you can trim selectively.

i think a good eq in the loop is the best way to go

Very interesting.

Back when I had the M13, I had this thought and tried to use one of its modeled EQ's in the loop of the Stiletto. I did not like the result. It was like all the responsiveness and touch-sensitivity got sucked out of the amp.

That's why I didn't consider an EQ as an option, but in hindsight it could have been because the EQ itself was crap.

What would be a good EQ to use in an effects loop?

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Really? Aww dude, that sucks. :28:

For the price of a Mark 5 save a few extra $$$ and get a RoadKing.... 6L6's and EL34's on tap. I'm not sure how close the Roadking will sound to a Stiletto, but you'll have complete flexibility, and only have to carry 1 head.

I'm sure you already know how awesome a Roadking is so all I will say is...

The Road King is indeed awesome, but it almost looks like more than I'd need. I don't know what I'd do with the four channels.

The good thing about having both sets of tubes is that I'd be more likely to be able to cop the Stiletto tones while also having 6L6's for teh brutalz.

 

[jeremy]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

i used a 31 band graphic eq, i think it was dbx brand. i put it in the loop and i didnt feel it sucked the life outta the amp. it was just the one i had around. im guessing there is more musical options but i was pretty happy with the way it worked out.

i was trying to give my red knob twin a more marshally sound on the gain channel and it worked pretty well. i used to run a twin for clean and jcm 800 halfstack for dirty and that was way to much crap to be hauling around so this is how i compromised things.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Hmm ... what about running the Rectifier Recording pre into the power section of the Stiletto?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

MXR 10 band in the loop works great for a temporary "fix". Then save for another amp IN ADDITION to the Stiletto. If you get rid of the Mesa you'll forever be kicking yourself. Run a two amp system to get all the tones you want. I use the Radial Bones ABY which works great to switch between amps or run both together. I actually almost always run two amps together.

Just my two cents.

 

[TheProphet]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

I've done the EL34's through a Recto and I don't think it'll give you any feel of a Stiletto. Especially in the higher gain department. (Bloody marvelous in the clean department though ... go figure)

I'd go with the Wampler or possibly one of the AMT JFET Preamps first+EQ. Running the Rectifier Preamp would still be pretty pricey and you could probably get a used Rectifier for a marginally higher amount of cash.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

I can try an MXR EQ in the loop. The only issues with that is I currently don't use the Stiletto's effects loop for anything else, so that adds a bit of complexity to my rig.


The more I think about this, the more I think the Mark V is really what I want, especially after watching these videos where John Petrucci explains how he dials his in:





The thing that really sold me was at the end of the first video where he cranks the gain on channel 2's Crunch mode. That sounds very, very close to my Stiletto channel 2 tone, which is what I would miss most if I had to give the amp up.

I've played a Mark V, and for me it honestly kills the Stiletto on both clean and heavy high gain. It was that fat, chunky crunch from the Stiletto's channel 2 that I wasn't getting at the time, but now that I've seen it can be dialed in I'm pretty excited about it. The foot-switchable graph EQ is a great tone shaping tool, and I'd definitely enjoy foot-switchable reverb.

 

[lex666]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

The Mark 5 is The Tits. Yes, I play with my tits as much as possible.

Another plus about the Mark 5: you can add EL34's if you want to.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

I say get a Boss DS-1 and a Monte Allums Rectifier Mod Kit, and see if that doesn't meet your needs.

I run mine on my Fender's clean channel, and it scarily tight and modern. Really turns it into an amp of a different nature.

That's a $60 solution. If it doesn't pan out for you, you can sell me the MA DS-1 as a backup, so you're risk free.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)

Seriously --- I approach problem solving this way - if it's a personal matter, i.e. not a work thing, I work in order from cheapest solution that might work to most expensive.

The risk you accept in this case, even if and as you progress in the chain, is always the lowest possible risk.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: What would you do in my situation? (craving heavier tones)