What's special about Lace Sensors?
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Lewguitar
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
Seems like the Lace Sensors have come and gone.
Clapton no longer uses them nor does Buddy Guy or Jeff Beck.
I've had two Eric Clapton Strats with Lace Sensors.
Both were terrific guitars but the Lace Sensors were an issue.
They were good. And completely usable.
But bland sounding compared to my Strats with Duncans or Fralins.
I thought about keeping one of the EC's and putting Ant Surfers and a new wiring harness in it.
Figured it would be worth more if I didn't though - so I sold it and never looked back.
Seems like the Lace Sensors have come and gone.
Clapton no longer uses them nor does Buddy Guy or Jeff Beck.
I've had two Eric Clapton Strats with Lace Sensors.
Both were terrific guitars but the Lace Sensors were an issue.
They were good. And completely usable.
But bland sounding compared to my Strats with Duncans or Fralins.
I thought about keeping one of the EC's and putting Ant Surfers and a new wiring harness in it.
Figured it would be worth more if I didn't though - so I sold it and never looked back.
LReese
Sausage Gravy
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
The golds are pretty good in the EC. Maybe not as aggressive as the old standby, but not what I'd call bland.
As I recall, EC still occasionally uses an EC sig with golds. At least one was used for the Cream shows, but that was 2005. There's reference to Laces in 2009 in one Strat -
http://www.whereseric.com/the-vault...ptons-guitar-amp-and-equipment-set-historical
The hot golds are a step up from a regular gold IMO..
The golds are pretty good in the EC. Maybe not as aggressive as the old standby, but not what I'd call bland.
As I recall, EC still occasionally uses an EC sig with golds. At least one was used for the Cream shows, but that was 2005. There's reference to Laces in 2009 in one Strat -
http://www.whereseric.com/the-vault...ptons-guitar-amp-and-equipment-set-historical
The hot golds are a step up from a regular gold IMO..
Falloffthebonetone
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
I had a hot gold standard set in my strat for YEARS but switched back to true singles. They have amazig chime and super reduced noise. As mentioned earlier, they are smoothet, which in my opinion made them even MORE versatile because they could cop humbucker tones better than traditional singles and have more harmonic content. A set of hot golds with a splitable hot gold bridge MIGHT be the most versatile pickup set out there. They work really well with effects too. As my taste matured I missed the unbridled air, snap and response that my singles gave me that let more of my playing style come through. They really are badass, and I wish I had more than one strat to throw them in. Haven't tried the reds silvers or blues but heard they were awesome. I'm not a fan of many noiseless strat pickup sets anymore and really wasn't before I got the set installed either, but THEY were the exception for me. They also make a gold set now with fake polepieces called the V series that gives you the lace gold tone but traditional look. Also Townsend still uses them and his tone rocks, and I sometimes see Clapton bust out a strat or 2 with them in it.
I had a hot gold standard set in my strat for YEARS but switched back to true singles. They have amazig chime and super reduced noise. As mentioned earlier, they are smoothet, which in my opinion made them even MORE versatile because they could cop humbucker tones better than traditional singles and have more harmonic content. A set of hot golds with a splitable hot gold bridge MIGHT be the most versatile pickup set out there. They work really well with effects too. As my taste matured I missed the unbridled air, snap and response that my singles gave me that let more of my playing style come through. They really are badass, and I wish I had more than one strat to throw them in. Haven't tried the reds silvers or blues but heard they were awesome. I'm not a fan of many noiseless strat pickup sets anymore and really wasn't before I got the set installed either, but THEY were the exception for me. They also make a gold set now with fake polepieces called the V series that gives you the lace gold tone but traditional look. Also Townsend still uses them and his tone rocks, and I sometimes see Clapton bust out a strat or 2 with them in it.
Last edited:
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
Lace Golds to a 'T' IMO. I really like the R / S / B setup that Longcat has in her Strat, but I've never been able to bond with golds despite several attempts. They reminded me of EMG-SAs, but lacking everything that makes SAs cool.
Lace Golds to a 'T' IMO. I really like the R / S / B setup that Longcat has in her Strat, but I've never been able to bond with golds despite several attempts. They reminded me of EMG-SAs, but lacking everything that makes SAs cool.
DreX
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
Not Lace Sensors, but since we're talking all things Lace, I have a set of Lace Alumitones, single coil sized in a strat, which are on the chopping block. I love that Lace tries crazy things, but there's a reason most of them never catch on. The only good thing about the Alumitones is the flat EQ profile, it sounds like a single coil and a humbucker, and neither, depending upon your expectations. The bad things are that:
a) since there is such a small coil, there is barely any coil compression. They communicate no sense of sustain. It sounds like your guitar is made out of cork. This fast decay is horrible for overdrive and distortion because the fuzz goes from full blast to a mild over drive in the space of a few seconds. The crunch doesn't hang on for ten to twenty seconds like you expect from any typical pickup. It doesn't even matter how much gain you dial in, because however much you start with, you are left with a lot less almost instantly.
b) The passive tone knob just doesn't work, and it doesn't matter what capacitor values you use. You don't get a fat, woofy tone with like you do with a typical .47 uF cap in a Strat, you get a "wet blanket over your amp" tone. Lesser value caps are no better, they dull the tone, but lots of highs continue to poke through while the overall volume decreases. Instead of getting creamy, fat tones when you roll off the tone, it sounds like your guitar was shot with a tranquilizer dart.
What it comes down to is expectations. If Leo Fender or Seth Lover, or whoever, had invented Lace Alumitones in the 1950's, then musicians might have found interesting ways to work with them over the decades and wiggle them into popular music and we would have fell in love with songs that showcased their peculiar qualities, but they didn't, so there's just no context in which they're well suited.
I did have a Blue Lace Sensor fifteen years ago which I had replaced with e Lil '59, because they were said to target the same PAF tone, and I found the Lil '59 to be more alive, it had the dynamics, the compression and nuances of an actual humbucker where as the Blue Lace Sensor has the right mid heavy EQ profile, but it sounded dull and lifeless in comparison. I can't do much better than that since it was so long ago.
Not Lace Sensors, but since we're talking all things Lace, I have a set of Lace Alumitones, single coil sized in a strat, which are on the chopping block. I love that Lace tries crazy things, but there's a reason most of them never catch on. The only good thing about the Alumitones is the flat EQ profile, it sounds like a single coil and a humbucker, and neither, depending upon your expectations. The bad things are that:
a) since there is such a small coil, there is barely any coil compression. They communicate no sense of sustain. It sounds like your guitar is made out of cork. This fast decay is horrible for overdrive and distortion because the fuzz goes from full blast to a mild over drive in the space of a few seconds. The crunch doesn't hang on for ten to twenty seconds like you expect from any typical pickup. It doesn't even matter how much gain you dial in, because however much you start with, you are left with a lot less almost instantly.
b) The passive tone knob just doesn't work, and it doesn't matter what capacitor values you use. You don't get a fat, woofy tone with like you do with a typical .47 uF cap in a Strat, you get a "wet blanket over your amp" tone. Lesser value caps are no better, they dull the tone, but lots of highs continue to poke through while the overall volume decreases. Instead of getting creamy, fat tones when you roll off the tone, it sounds like your guitar was shot with a tranquilizer dart.
What it comes down to is expectations. If Leo Fender or Seth Lover, or whoever, had invented Lace Alumitones in the 1950's, then musicians might have found interesting ways to work with them over the decades and wiggle them into popular music and we would have fell in love with songs that showcased their peculiar qualities, but they didn't, so there's just no context in which they're well suited.
I did have a Blue Lace Sensor fifteen years ago which I had replaced with e Lil '59, because they were said to target the same PAF tone, and I found the Lil '59 to be more alive, it had the dynamics, the compression and nuances of an actual humbucker where as the Blue Lace Sensor has the right mid heavy EQ profile, but it sounded dull and lifeless in comparison. I can't do much better than that since it was so long ago.
DreX
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
I'm not familiar with all of Lace's product lineup, but everything they've done that has got any sort of attention seems to put noiseless operation ahead of desirable tone in order of importance. That's completely backasswards. I don't know what it is with the plethora of noise reduction pickup offerings in general, but 60Hz hum bothers me so little that I'm not willing to trade in any aspect of tonal bliss in exchange for it. I don't want to lose a single overtone or harmonic on account of eliminating 60Hz buzz. I'm even anti-RW/RP and I regret that I've bought sets of pickups as a package without taking a moment to realize I was receiving an RW/RP middle coil. It's funny to me that people will play thrash metal, a loud noisy cacophony of 16th notes, but then be so concerned about that slight buzz sound you hear for a brief moment between starting or ending a song and turning down the volume on their guitar. I don't have any tattoos and even I'm not that big of a pussy. In fairness to humbuckers such as PAF and the like, they sound beautiful in their own right and have withstood the time and are hard to distinguish from P-90s even, unlike Lace Sensors, EMGs, split blades, stacked humbuckers, Alumitones and every other tone-hating noiseless stand-in. The only reason stacked humbuckers have gained more traction than the rest is because they look good, because for some customers of electric guitars, tone is not their first priority, or even their second.
I'm not familiar with all of Lace's product lineup, but everything they've done that has got any sort of attention seems to put noiseless operation ahead of desirable tone in order of importance. That's completely backasswards. I don't know what it is with the plethora of noise reduction pickup offerings in general, but 60Hz hum bothers me so little that I'm not willing to trade in any aspect of tonal bliss in exchange for it. I don't want to lose a single overtone or harmonic on account of eliminating 60Hz buzz. I'm even anti-RW/RP and I regret that I've bought sets of pickups as a package without taking a moment to realize I was receiving an RW/RP middle coil. It's funny to me that people will play thrash metal, a loud noisy cacophony of 16th notes, but then be so concerned about that slight buzz sound you hear for a brief moment between starting or ending a song and turning down the volume on their guitar. I don't have any tattoos and even I'm not that big of a pussy. In fairness to humbuckers such as PAF and the like, they sound beautiful in their own right and have withstood the time and are hard to distinguish from P-90s even, unlike Lace Sensors, EMGs, split blades, stacked humbuckers, Alumitones and every other tone-hating noiseless stand-in. The only reason stacked humbuckers have gained more traction than the rest is because they look good, because for some customers of electric guitars, tone is not their first priority, or even their second.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
I think Lace pickups use a different kind of magnet material, something similar to Samarium Cobalt or something like that. Also, I'm pretty sure that Jeff Healey used lace pickups. I've always wanted to get a set of golds and have always been intrigued with the Holy Grails. Since I don't use single coils, I never had enough reason to go out and buy some. The Lace humbuckers I did try were high output and not really my style. I have tried both the single and humbucker size Alumitones and they really are great pickups, but again, not my style. If you ever come across one of those cheap, funky looking Lace guitars, you will plug one in and realize just how good their pickups are because they can make cheap POS guitars like those sound pretty good.
I think Lace pickups use a different kind of magnet material, something similar to Samarium Cobalt or something like that. Also, I'm pretty sure that Jeff Healey used lace pickups. I've always wanted to get a set of golds and have always been intrigued with the Holy Grails. Since I don't use single coils, I never had enough reason to go out and buy some. The Lace humbuckers I did try were high output and not really my style. I have tried both the single and humbucker size Alumitones and they really are great pickups, but again, not my style. If you ever come across one of those cheap, funky looking Lace guitars, you will plug one in and realize just how good their pickups are because they can make cheap POS guitars like those sound pretty good.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
I vaguely remember an interview saying that he used Evans PU's but he might have changed.
Lace Sensors... Superb design, with a downside: the complex magnetic circuit with its shielding appears to make them extremely capacitive. That's probably why users find them bland sounding: at the output jack, the sound is already filtered as if it was passing through 3m of cable.
I vaguely remember an interview saying that he used Evans PU's but he might have changed.
Lace Sensors... Superb design, with a downside: the complex magnetic circuit with its shielding appears to make them extremely capacitive. That's probably why users find them bland sounding: at the output jack, the sound is already filtered as if it was passing through 3m of cable.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
Oh yeah, that's right. I had forgotten about that. Does Evans still make pickups? Also, I have heard the "bland" description in regards to Lace pickups several times before.
Oh yeah, that's right. I had forgotten about that. Does Evans still make pickups? Also, I have heard the "bland" description in regards to Lace pickups several times before.
Falloffthebonetone
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
Hm thats peculiar. My laces gave me MORE sustain, overtones, harmonics and compression. I switched them out because I was lacking depth, warmth and bite that normal singles have, like fundamental things. I know what you mean by the "cork" like response you get, that's a good way to describe it. I've heard people use the term "plasticy" too and that also makes sense to my ears: it's something I've felt with actives too, it might have something to do with how close these pickups have to be to the strings because of reduced magnet pull. I think the reason why is because people buy these expecting a more genuine strat sound out of them but it lacks some of that shimmery character the strat tone has naturally. Like the site says, they aren't pickups, they are sensors, so while they do the same job, the fundamentals of each in construction and sound are different. Never tried the alumitones though so they might be really dull and uncompressed for all I know.
Hm thats peculiar. My laces gave me MORE sustain, overtones, harmonics and compression. I switched them out because I was lacking depth, warmth and bite that normal singles have, like fundamental things. I know what you mean by the "cork" like response you get, that's a good way to describe it. I've heard people use the term "plasticy" too and that also makes sense to my ears: it's something I've felt with actives too, it might have something to do with how close these pickups have to be to the strings because of reduced magnet pull. I think the reason why is because people buy these expecting a more genuine strat sound out of them but it lacks some of that shimmery character the strat tone has naturally. Like the site says, they aren't pickups, they are sensors, so while they do the same job, the fundamentals of each in construction and sound are different. Never tried the alumitones though so they might be really dull and uncompressed for all I know.
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
They're one of those things I'd quite like to try - especially the Alumitones. However, they're quite hard to get in the UK and also expensive (more than most hand wound pickups eg Bare Knuckles) so they keep getting pushed to the bottom of the list of "gear I want to buy one day."
They're one of those things I'd quite like to try - especially the Alumitones. However, they're quite hard to get in the UK and also expensive (more than most hand wound pickups eg Bare Knuckles) so they keep getting pushed to the bottom of the list of "gear I want to buy one day."
DreX
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
I have Alumitones now, I'm not sure how they compare to Lace Sensors. My understanding is that larger coils have their own degree of compression due to self inductance and/or self capacitance. What exactly causes it, I'm not sure. I've seen some say that higher output pickups compress more because they're pushing the amp's input harder, but if I turn down the volume on the guitar, I still hear the same compression, and this compression has a lot, maybe everything to do with the attack characteristic of the pickup. I believe it's because the Alumitones have such a tiny coil that they avoid having as much self inductance and self capacitance. Even though a pickup with tiny magnets might not magnetically dampen strings as much , if the pickup doesn't compress, then your audible perception would be that the guitar is not sustaining for as long. I tried to find more information about pickup compression and what causes it, but little information was forthcoming.
I have Alumitones now, I'm not sure how they compare to Lace Sensors. My understanding is that larger coils have their own degree of compression due to self inductance and/or self capacitance. What exactly causes it, I'm not sure. I've seen some say that higher output pickups compress more because they're pushing the amp's input harder, but if I turn down the volume on the guitar, I still hear the same compression, and this compression has a lot, maybe everything to do with the attack characteristic of the pickup. I believe it's because the Alumitones have such a tiny coil that they avoid having as much self inductance and self capacitance. Even though a pickup with tiny magnets might not magnetically dampen strings as much , if the pickup doesn't compress, then your audible perception would be that the guitar is not sustaining for as long. I tried to find more information about pickup compression and what causes it, but little information was forthcoming.
DreX
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
That's why I bought them, just to see if they were a hidden gem. I'm starting to find that there are hardly any hidden gems when if comes to guitars, whether it be guitars themselves, or pickups or pedals. If something is "good", in all the various ways a thing can be good, it becomes popular, if it's not, it generally doesn't. Like I don't think you have to be told that a Tube Screamer is the most popular OD pedal, or that PAF is the most popular humbucker, in order to like them. The same is not true in the other extreme though, some things become popular which are not especially great simply due to peer influence on matters of subjectivity.
If it weren't for the funky tone controls and the fast amplitude decay, my next gripe about them would be that the flat EQ is simply boring and lacks character. It's a little flatly transparent, think piezo pickup or EMG territory. I just got some Fralin Vintage Hots and Blues Specials, and to me they epitomize the opposite of all that, they have a ton of color and character. Lots of different things happen from the first strum until the last bit of sound can be heard. Picking harder or softer, nearer or further has dramatic effects. All of the modern tiny coil pickups I've tried are maybe too sober, they don't bring their own beer to the party.
That's why I bought them, just to see if they were a hidden gem. I'm starting to find that there are hardly any hidden gems when if comes to guitars, whether it be guitars themselves, or pickups or pedals. If something is "good", in all the various ways a thing can be good, it becomes popular, if it's not, it generally doesn't. Like I don't think you have to be told that a Tube Screamer is the most popular OD pedal, or that PAF is the most popular humbucker, in order to like them. The same is not true in the other extreme though, some things become popular which are not especially great simply due to peer influence on matters of subjectivity.
If it weren't for the funky tone controls and the fast amplitude decay, my next gripe about them would be that the flat EQ is simply boring and lacks character. It's a little flatly transparent, think piezo pickup or EMG territory. I just got some Fralin Vintage Hots and Blues Specials, and to me they epitomize the opposite of all that, they have a ton of color and character. Lots of different things happen from the first strum until the last bit of sound can be heard. Picking harder or softer, nearer or further has dramatic effects. All of the modern tiny coil pickups I've tried are maybe too sober, they don't bring their own beer to the party.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
Me too. I even gigged with them quite bit back during the 90s. The gig tapes from back then show how flat and almost lifeless they really were though. I wasn't getting my best tone at gigs and that's a regret. To get a more lively sound on tape I was using too much top and presence.
One good thing about them is that they can be set very close to the strings and they like gain. I believe Eric uses them mostly on his slide set up guitar. I can see them working well for that.
Me too. I even gigged with them quite bit back during the 90s. The gig tapes from back then show how flat and almost lifeless they really were though. I wasn't getting my best tone at gigs and that's a regret. To get a more lively sound on tape I was using too much top and presence.
One good thing about them is that they can be set very close to the strings and they like gain. I believe Eric uses them mostly on his slide set up guitar. I can see them working well for that.
Falloffthebonetone
New member
Re: What's special about Lace Sensors?
All things said, this is some of the best tone I've ever heard from Clapton.
All things said, this is some of the best tone I've ever heard from Clapton.
