Lucid_Lunatic
Rebelyellologist
Just wondering. I have a couple of wahs with the red Fasel and 1 with a yellow Fasel. Just wondering what the actual difference is.
What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
- Thread starter Lucid_Lunatic
- Start date
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
You could tell us how they sound...
You could tell us how they sound...
Lucid_Lunatic
Rebelyellologist
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
I don't really know how much of the tone is affected by the Fasel since all 3 wahs are built very different from each other.
I don't really know how much of the tone is affected by the Fasel since all 3 wahs are built very different from each other.
man-in-moon
New member
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
when i switch to the yellow fasel in my CAE wah. the effect is more subtle. the red has a lot more pronounced bass and treble. just switching between the 2 is like having 2 completely different voiced wahs.
when i switch to the yellow fasel in my CAE wah. the effect is more subtle. the red has a lot more pronounced bass and treble. just switching between the 2 is like having 2 completely different voiced wahs.
Lucid_Lunatic
Rebelyellologist
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
Cool. My Wylde & Slash both have red Fasels and they sound alot different from each other. Both have more pronounced highs. The Wylde has more of a midrange hump and the Slash has more of a smooth transition on the sweep. The Slash also has a gain/distortion built in, but it's not of much use if you already use a dirt pedal.
I dig the one with the yellow Fasel the most. It has a Q control and a switch from bright to dark. I'm really digging the bright side with the Q set to about 40%. It's alot smoother than the Wylde or Slash and seems more balanced from back to forward. It also seems to have a more vocal quality through a broader sweep than the other two.
Cool. My Wylde & Slash both have red Fasels and they sound alot different from each other. Both have more pronounced highs. The Wylde has more of a midrange hump and the Slash has more of a smooth transition on the sweep. The Slash also has a gain/distortion built in, but it's not of much use if you already use a dirt pedal.
I dig the one with the yellow Fasel the most. It has a Q control and a switch from bright to dark. I'm really digging the bright side with the Q set to about 40%. It's alot smoother than the Wylde or Slash and seems more balanced from back to forward. It also seems to have a more vocal quality through a broader sweep than the other two.
man-in-moon
New member
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
cool i am digging the red fasel on mine. it seems to dip in the middle a lot. it has more of a drastic sound which works better with my gain. i like the yellow as well though. mine has one of the boosters like i sold you built in. that i can turn off and on.
cool i am digging the red fasel on mine. it seems to dip in the middle a lot. it has more of a drastic sound which works better with my gain. i like the yellow as well though. mine has one of the boosters like i sold you built in. that i can turn off and on.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
One is supposed to be a vintage voiced inductor while the other is a more modern voicing.
However neither of them sound anything like the original Fasel inductors fromthe 70's...
One is supposed to be a vintage voiced inductor while the other is a more modern voicing.
However neither of them sound anything like the original Fasel inductors fromthe 70's...
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
Which one is which, though? And in the fuzz box thread from a while ago, you put up a bunch of clips of different fuzz tones. Can you give an example of vintage versus modern wah tones?
Which one is which, though? And in the fuzz box thread from a while ago, you put up a bunch of clips of different fuzz tones. Can you give an example of vintage versus modern wah tones?
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
Red is modern and yellow is vintage...
Let's see what I can dig up on wah tones...
Red is modern and yellow is vintage...
Let's see what I can dig up on wah tones...
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
The earliest Vox wah were NOT Clyde McCoy wahs, they were just sold as the Vox Wah Wah pedal. They didn't have a chrome top and were painted grey. These early grey Vox wahs soun pretyt different than any wah thats come after them. The only real well known user of these wahs was Jimmy
Page early on in Zep...he used on on LZI for sure, and only used that wah.
These wah pedals have a real thin bright tone and a pretty narrow sweep but due to the circiut they seem to work pretty well in front of a fuzz pedal w/o a buffer!
Here is a GREAT clip of Page live with Zep in 69, Dragon Tele the grey Vox wah and a MK II Tone Bender.
The next wah from Vox was the CLyde McCoy. Therse were much fatter and more vocal sounding when compared to the grey Vox wahs. This is the wah Clapton and Hendrix used in the middle/late 60's and is still the gold standard when talking wah tone.
Here is a clip of Cream from Disraeli Gears, great tune and the wah can be heard in a clean setting and Eric really works the sweep in a very pleasing and sweet way.
Next was the Vox V846. These came in the very late 60's and were sold into the middle/late 70's. These wahs went through a number of changes over the years including different inductors, caps and even pots...
The earlier ones sound a lot like a Clyde while the later ones starty to be fairly different sounding.
Jimi used an 846 later on during is time.
Here is wah guru Kevin Wilson with his 69 Vox V846.
Here is an early 70's Jen built Crybaby wah with an original red Fasel.
These seem to have a more aggressive growl to them.
We could go on and on and on about old wahs but this should (hopefully) give you a little insight...
The earliest Vox wah were NOT Clyde McCoy wahs, they were just sold as the Vox Wah Wah pedal. They didn't have a chrome top and were painted grey. These early grey Vox wahs soun pretyt different than any wah thats come after them. The only real well known user of these wahs was Jimmy
Page early on in Zep...he used on on LZI for sure, and only used that wah.
These wah pedals have a real thin bright tone and a pretty narrow sweep but due to the circiut they seem to work pretty well in front of a fuzz pedal w/o a buffer!
Here is a GREAT clip of Page live with Zep in 69, Dragon Tele the grey Vox wah and a MK II Tone Bender.
The next wah from Vox was the CLyde McCoy. Therse were much fatter and more vocal sounding when compared to the grey Vox wahs. This is the wah Clapton and Hendrix used in the middle/late 60's and is still the gold standard when talking wah tone.
Here is a clip of Cream from Disraeli Gears, great tune and the wah can be heard in a clean setting and Eric really works the sweep in a very pleasing and sweet way.
Next was the Vox V846. These came in the very late 60's and were sold into the middle/late 70's. These wahs went through a number of changes over the years including different inductors, caps and even pots...
The earlier ones sound a lot like a Clyde while the later ones starty to be fairly different sounding.
Jimi used an 846 later on during is time.
Here is wah guru Kevin Wilson with his 69 Vox V846.
Here is an early 70's Jen built Crybaby wah with an original red Fasel.
These seem to have a more aggressive growl to them.
We could go on and on and on about old wahs but this should (hopefully) give you a little insight...
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
ok here's what i've learned about wahs since i've become obsessed with them and have owned loads of them and modded then in many different ways. the inductor matters, but no where near as much as you'd think it would. the big thing is how it interacts with the resistor value used for the Q. certain inductors don't sound as good with a high Q as others do which i think is based on the wind of the inductor. think of an inductor swap like changing string gauge or brand on a guitar or perhaps adjusting pickup height. it will certainly change the tone but not as much as a pickup swap will change it. the big changes in wah tone come from the sweep cap which adjusts the range in which the wah does its thing. the reason most people like the "growl" as it's usually put of the wylde wah and the hendrix wah for example is because they use .022uf sweep caps where the standard crybaby uses a .01uf making it brighter having a higher sweep range. the other big tonal change in a wah, what may be argued makes the biggest change is the Q resistor. on a typical dunlop it's a 33K this give the wah a very wide voice and more waaaaah sound VS a higher value Q which will give the wah more quack and a sharper more wow voice. then there's true bypassing a wah, even that will slightly change the voice, less than an inductor change in this case. there are also resistors that can shift the midrange or add more bass or more gain etc etc. pretty much any cap or resistor change you make will have a larger overall change in the tone and voice of the wah than an inductor swap will have in general but again an inductor swap does certainly make a change and interacts differently with all the other mods. oh and there's also the pot value, that of course changes the tone and sweep range of the wah too. etc etc etc. so many things change it but having had both inductors in the same wah the tonal change between them isn't as massive as some say it is....but there is a very subtle one.
as for the MC404 why it sounds so kick ass (i love that wah) is due to a higher Q to start (and it's adjustable) along with different values for all the above mentioned mid, bass gain etc caps and the big thing is not just the inductor switch but i'm pretty sure when you switch inductors the sweep cap value is also changed giving it an even more drastic tonal change than just an inductor change would give. i honestly can't confirm that since tracing that circuit with the little surface mount components makes my head spin. however just using my ears it seems the red fasel has a darker higher value sweep cap than the yellow. who knows there could also be other changes but i'm pretty sure when the fasel is switched via the red push button it's not just the fasel color that gets switched, the tonal change is a bit too drastic (in a good way) between the two to just be a fasel swap. again i have no proof of this but it's what it sound like to me.
now i'm all excited to mod some more wahs hahaha.
-Mike
ok here's what i've learned about wahs since i've become obsessed with them and have owned loads of them and modded then in many different ways. the inductor matters, but no where near as much as you'd think it would. the big thing is how it interacts with the resistor value used for the Q. certain inductors don't sound as good with a high Q as others do which i think is based on the wind of the inductor. think of an inductor swap like changing string gauge or brand on a guitar or perhaps adjusting pickup height. it will certainly change the tone but not as much as a pickup swap will change it. the big changes in wah tone come from the sweep cap which adjusts the range in which the wah does its thing. the reason most people like the "growl" as it's usually put of the wylde wah and the hendrix wah for example is because they use .022uf sweep caps where the standard crybaby uses a .01uf making it brighter having a higher sweep range. the other big tonal change in a wah, what may be argued makes the biggest change is the Q resistor. on a typical dunlop it's a 33K this give the wah a very wide voice and more waaaaah sound VS a higher value Q which will give the wah more quack and a sharper more wow voice. then there's true bypassing a wah, even that will slightly change the voice, less than an inductor change in this case. there are also resistors that can shift the midrange or add more bass or more gain etc etc. pretty much any cap or resistor change you make will have a larger overall change in the tone and voice of the wah than an inductor swap will have in general but again an inductor swap does certainly make a change and interacts differently with all the other mods. oh and there's also the pot value, that of course changes the tone and sweep range of the wah too. etc etc etc. so many things change it but having had both inductors in the same wah the tonal change between them isn't as massive as some say it is....but there is a very subtle one.
as for the MC404 why it sounds so kick ass (i love that wah) is due to a higher Q to start (and it's adjustable) along with different values for all the above mentioned mid, bass gain etc caps and the big thing is not just the inductor switch but i'm pretty sure when you switch inductors the sweep cap value is also changed giving it an even more drastic tonal change than just an inductor change would give. i honestly can't confirm that since tracing that circuit with the little surface mount components makes my head spin. however just using my ears it seems the red fasel has a darker higher value sweep cap than the yellow. who knows there could also be other changes but i'm pretty sure when the fasel is switched via the red push button it's not just the fasel color that gets switched, the tonal change is a bit too drastic (in a good way) between the two to just be a fasel swap. again i have no proof of this but it's what it sound like to me.
now i'm all excited to mod some more wahs hahaha.
-Mike
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
As for modern wah tones start in the 80's with Dunlop Crybabys them start going forward...
Kirk Hammett has what I'd call a very modern wah tone as does Zakk Wylde, Jerry Cantrell...
The oldest of the modern wahs (if that makes any sense) is the early Dunlop Crybaby wahs.
Here is Tom Morrello abusing his early 80's Crybaby.
This not Kirk but it is a demo of his Signature wah...
Not Zakk, but a demo of his wah...
Here is Josh Homme abusing a "vintage" 70's Morley wah...
Just like the vintage wahs I could go on and on and on. This really only scratched the surface...there are the old Tychobrahe wahs (Iopmmi used these laster on in Sabbath), the old Foxx wahs, Colorsound (the boys from Thin Lizzy used Colorsound wahs inthe 70's and Kim Thayil used on in the 90's!), the Ibanez wahs (Blood Sugar Sex Magik is FULL of Ibaanez wah)...loads of wahs out there...
As for modern wah tones start in the 80's with Dunlop Crybabys them start going forward...
Kirk Hammett has what I'd call a very modern wah tone as does Zakk Wylde, Jerry Cantrell...
The oldest of the modern wahs (if that makes any sense) is the early Dunlop Crybaby wahs.
Here is Tom Morrello abusing his early 80's Crybaby.
This not Kirk but it is a demo of his Signature wah...
Not Zakk, but a demo of his wah...
Here is Josh Homme abusing a "vintage" 70's Morley wah...
Just like the vintage wahs I could go on and on and on. This really only scratched the surface...there are the old Tychobrahe wahs (Iopmmi used these laster on in Sabbath), the old Foxx wahs, Colorsound (the boys from Thin Lizzy used Colorsound wahs inthe 70's and Kim Thayil used on in the 90's!), the Ibanez wahs (Blood Sugar Sex Magik is FULL of Ibaanez wah)...loads of wahs out there...
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
i wouldn't consider the wylde wah a modern sounding wah really since it's the same circuit as the hendrix wah which is a red fasel and .022uf cap different than a typical GCB-95 crybaby. however being that it's used for high gain metal vs typical hendrix-esq fuzz i think it takes on a new character thus sort of making it sound a bit more modern. cantrell's wah tone is some of my favorite but he's used loads of different wahs over the years so pinning down what was used on what and when live is impossible until the recent tour when it was all a modded crybaby which they turned into his sig model. he just seems to have an ear for finding cool wah tone. i think any wah gets a bit more modern sounding once you up the Q and give it more wow vs waaaaah. that's one reason as a high gain player myself i really dig the hammett wah, that sucker cuts through gain real well and has a great voice...amazingly it does some cool clean tone 70s porn style funk very well too which is always fun hahaha. that said i also dig the wylde wah which is very different from the hammet and really works for the down low chunky stuff.
-Mike
i wouldn't consider the wylde wah a modern sounding wah really since it's the same circuit as the hendrix wah which is a red fasel and .022uf cap different than a typical GCB-95 crybaby. however being that it's used for high gain metal vs typical hendrix-esq fuzz i think it takes on a new character thus sort of making it sound a bit more modern. cantrell's wah tone is some of my favorite but he's used loads of different wahs over the years so pinning down what was used on what and when live is impossible until the recent tour when it was all a modded crybaby which they turned into his sig model. he just seems to have an ear for finding cool wah tone. i think any wah gets a bit more modern sounding once you up the Q and give it more wow vs waaaaah. that's one reason as a high gain player myself i really dig the hammett wah, that sucker cuts through gain real well and has a great voice...amazingly it does some cool clean tone 70s porn style funk very well too which is always fun hahaha. that said i also dig the wylde wah which is very different from the hammet and really works for the down low chunky stuff.
-Mike
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
I could care less whats in the wah in this sense...the Wylde wah has WAY more low and, less mids and almost none of the vocal quality of a vintage wah. It's just a different sound...
I could care less whats in the wah in this sense...the Wylde wah has WAY more low and, less mids and almost none of the vocal quality of a vintage wah. It's just a different sound...
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
Excellent, excellent posts, Vault worthy.
:clap:
Interesting to hear it in perspective, I see how my 80's Crybaby sounds a lot like Morello's, and I like that agressive cut for high gain. I see how you became a wah junkie, Mike!
Excellent, excellent posts, Vault worthy.
:clap:
Interesting to hear it in perspective, I see how my 80's Crybaby sounds a lot like Morello's, and I like that agressive cut for high gain. I see how you became a wah junkie, Mike!
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
In the earlier parts of those Morrello lessons he mentiones that his wah is an early 80's Crybaby...they have they kind of tone...wider sweep, aggressive cut and kind of punkey tone...like the pedal is throwing up.
It's easy to get wrapped up in wah pedals...there are so many different ones and once you start deailing with old ones they vary so much you can spend days and days (and hundreds of dollars!) looking for the "right" wah!
In the earlier parts of those Morrello lessons he mentiones that his wah is an early 80's Crybaby...they have they kind of tone...wider sweep, aggressive cut and kind of punkey tone...like the pedal is throwing up.
It's easy to get wrapped up in wah pedals...there are so many different ones and once you start deailing with old ones they vary so much you can spend days and days (and hundreds of dollars!) looking for the "right" wah!
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
it's real easy to get obsessed with wahs just like guitars and amps since they all have their own character and do certain things different or better than others. just like there's no perfect guitar or amp that does everything there's no perfect wah that does everything either. sometimes you need more quack, sometimes more chunk, sometimes more mid etc etc.
i not only got into collecting them but also modding them in different ways so i tracked down a bunch of the limited edition custom color GCB-95 wahs and modded them all in different ways just to see what a certain combo would do and it's amazing how different you can get that basic circuit to sound with one or two cap or resistor changes. from a ho hum generic sound to a real vocal quacky sound that stands out or some real big meaty sound etc etc.
wahs are fun and addictive, there's no doubt about it!
-Mike
it's real easy to get obsessed with wahs just like guitars and amps since they all have their own character and do certain things different or better than others. just like there's no perfect guitar or amp that does everything there's no perfect wah that does everything either. sometimes you need more quack, sometimes more chunk, sometimes more mid etc etc.
i not only got into collecting them but also modding them in different ways so i tracked down a bunch of the limited edition custom color GCB-95 wahs and modded them all in different ways just to see what a certain combo would do and it's amazing how different you can get that basic circuit to sound with one or two cap or resistor changes. from a ho hum generic sound to a real vocal quacky sound that stands out or some real big meaty sound etc etc.
wahs are fun and addictive, there's no doubt about it!
-Mike
Lucid_Lunatic
Rebelyellologist
Re: What's The Difference Between Yellow & Red Fasels?
Yeah, I think I've found my new hobby. I found a used Vox Mcoy (newer model) and a Dime wah that should get here next week. At least it's cheaper than wanting another Les Paul or Marshall.
Yeah, I think I've found my new hobby. I found a used Vox Mcoy (newer model) and a Dime wah that should get here next week. At least it's cheaper than wanting another Les Paul or Marshall.
