What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Really, Natalie. All this from a picture of a fake Gibson?

View attachment 81080

 

[LLL]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I actually do know several "Johnny Bar Band Players/ wedding bands/ whatever bands" that pay their bills off of gigs. I have several friends who are in a wedding band/ cover band together and pay not only their rent, but their schooling from gigs alone.

Then they're not "Johnny Bar Band players", are they?

It's common knowledge that people who work for themselves; start a business and make a living off that business... they are Professionals.

But if you're still working for the man and only hauling your Peavey to Tipsy McStagger's every weekend, don't call yourself a Professional, call yourself Semi-Pro.

Now, "being professional" (e.g. professionalism)... that's something else.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Then they're not "Johnny Bar Band players", are they?

It's common knowledge that people who work for themselves; start a business and make a living off that business... they are Professionals.

But if you're still working for the man and only hauling your Peavey to Tipsy McStagger's every weekend, don't call yourself a Professional, call yourself Semi-Pro.

Now, "being professional" (e.g. professionalism)... that's something else.

And if they can haul their Peavey to Tippy McStagger's every weekend and be paid enough to live off of, then that's a business. Just because you can't doesn't mean others can.

 

[LLL]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

And if they can haul their Peavey to Tippy McStagger's every weekend and be paid enough to live off of, then that's a business.

Correct. Like I said:

Then they're not "Johnny Bar Band players", are they?

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

When you can pay your mortgage, car payment, food, bills and send the kids to college solely off of the proceeds of your music career, then
and only then can you call yourself a "Professional Musician".

A profession is a paid occupation (could be part-time or full-time, seasonal, occasional, etc.) The IRS doesn't care if you make money on the side or the full time...if they find out you are making money from gigs and not reporting it, they will consider you a professional musician and not only make you pay taxes on the income but also penalties and interest.

There is so much wrong with your definition. Couples who both chip in to pay the bills couldn't be a professional unless both were making money only off of their music. Childless musicians or musicians who make their children pay their own way can't be a professional either apparently. Someone who works multiple jobs can't be one either.

Just to name a few issues with your definition...

 

[LLL]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

A profession is a paid occupation (could be part-time or full-time, seasonal, occasional, etc.) The IRS doesn't care if you make money on the side or the full time...if they find out you are making money from gigs and not reporting it, they will consider you a professional musician and not only make you pay taxes on the income but also penalties and interest.

Your argument does not make logical sense. By your definition there:

- John plays Joan Baez tunes on his acoustic guitar for his grandma's birthday every year (who pays him $25 for the "gig"). John is therefore a Professional Musician.

- Seamus has a band with his 4 high school friends. They play the local bars twice a month and get paid $400 total per gig. Seamus and his band are therefore Professional Musicians.

- Bob, who is running sound for a gig at a back yard party, asks Billy Joe (no sound experience) to cover for him for 15 mins while he takes a leak and says he will pay Joe $20 to do so. Billy Joe is therefore a Professional Musician.

You cannot just rubber-stamp everybody who performs for a measure of time and gets paid a random sum of money a Professional Musician (as much as some here would like to imagine themselves to be).

The IRS doesn't care if you make money on the side or the full time...if they find out you are making money from gigs and not reporting it, they will consider you a professional musician and not only make you pay taxes on the income but also penalties and interest.

The IRS has their own definitions which (naturally) suit themselves in collecting taxes. Therefore, in the "tax world" (or "speaking in tax terms"), those definitions apply... but musicians don't perform music in the "tax world", they perform music in the "music world/real world", so the appropriate definitions must be used.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I judge whether someone is a professional musician far more by their attitude than how much money they make. I've met plenty of musicians who made more than I do who were terribly unprofessional and I would never hire them.

 

[LLL]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Undoubtedly we've seen countless examples of real (big name) Professional Musicians acting... unprofessionally. :jester:

On stage or off. Drugs/alcohol usually involved.

But they're still Professional Musicians.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Your argument does not make logical sense. By your definition there:

- John plays Joan Baez tunes on his acoustic guitar for his grandma's birthday every year (who pays him $25 for the "gig"). John is therefore a Professional Musician.

- Seamus has a band with his 4 high school friends. They play the local bars twice a month and get paid $400 total per gig. Seamus and his band are therefore Professional Musicians.

- Bob, who is running sound for a gig at a back yard party, asks Billy Joe (no sound experience) to cover for him for 15 mins while he takes a leak and says he will pay Joe $20 to do so. Billy Joe is therefore a Professional Musician.

You cannot just rubber-stamp everybody who performs for a measure of time and gets paid a random sum of money a Professional Musician (as much as some here would like to imagine themselves to be).



The IRS has their own definitions which (naturally) suit themselves in collecting taxes. Therefore, in the "tax world" (or "speaking in tax terms"), those definitions apply... but musicians don't perform music in the "tax world", they perform music in the "music world/real world", so the appropriate definitions must be used.

You are the one being illogical here.

Getting paid $20 one time or grandma paying $25 is not an "occupation" under any stretch of the imagination.

Seeing as the IRS and Department of Labor work together (with the IRS sometimes even writing standards that the DOL enforces) I don't see how the IRS' view is NOT relevant here. You are talking about making money as a career...the IRS sets the standards as to whether or not you have earned income or not. So yeah, they are deciding if you are a professional or not.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Undoubtedly we've seen countless examples of real (big name) Professional Musicians acting... unprofessionally. :jester:

On stage or off. Drugs/alcohol usually involved.

But they're still Professional Musicians.

Most rock stars I have worked with have been great, actually. Country artists, for whatever reason, are often terrible people. One particular lady (you have heard of her) threw a huge tantrum when I told her road manager that walking her dog was not in the contract and nobody on my soundcrew was going to do it.

 

[Wattage]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Time to take it to the next level, bro! The secret is to diversify.

<<<<<

My days of that are long behind me, I am actually looking to take it to semi Semi-Pro

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

A profession is a paid occupation (could be part-time or full-time, seasonal, occasional, etc.) The IRS doesn't care if you make money on the side or the full time...if they find out you are making money from gigs and not reporting it, they will consider you a professional musician and not only make you pay taxes on the income but also penalties and interest.


Just to name a few issues with your definition...

Dude you are pushing it...ha...ha.. So an elementary school kid raising money for a bicycle for example, by doing paper route, is a professional, per your definition.

Please don't attempt to condition the situation. Whether you like it or not (or whether you can't stand LLL or not), here's the correct definition:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/professional?s=t

adjective
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain:
a professional builder.
2.
of, relating to, or connected with a profession :
professional studies.
3.
appropriate to a profession :
professional objectivity.
4.
engaged in one of the learned professions :
A lawyer is a professional person.
5.
following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime:
a professional golfer.
6.
making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”.
7.
undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain:
professional baseball.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

It's perfectly rational to consider someone who's working for gain at something to be a professional... even if it's not full time or doesn't constitute the bulk of his/her livelihood.

The suggestions having to do with a paper route, mowing lawns, or paying a buddy $20 to keep an eye on the board being part of that are just absurd and argumentative simply for the sake of creating an argument.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

It's perfectly rational to consider someone who's working for gain at something to be a professional... even if it's not full time or doesn't constitute the bulk of his/her livelihood.

The suggestions having to do with a paper route, mowing lawns, or paying a buddy $20 to keep an eye on the board being part of that are just absurd and argumentative simply for the sake of creating an argument.

Brian, there wouldn't be an argument if everyone just sticks to the dictionary definition, as opposed to complicating matters by expanding the scope.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Brian, there wouldn't be an argument if everyone just sticks to the dictionary definition, as opposed to complicating matters by expanding the scope.

Hmmm... and how does what I said (or what Trey said) NOT fit that definition?

I'm just saying that the aforementioned absurd arguments have no merit and everyone knows it. Trey's a pretty smart guy and you can bet that he isn't suggesting that a kid with a paper route is a professional anything. When one twists the obvious intended meanings of someone else's statement it's misleading and kind of a dick move. Don't fall into that... you're above it.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I have been a professional at my trade for 35 years
and yes I also count the years when I was just a dumb underpaid helper
because thats just how that works

the under paid Johnny bar band is getting paid which makes him a professional
for a few hours every weekend

when he is on the clock
its his job to entertain

if he spends the gig money on rent or his kids education or his drug habit
it has no bearing on the fact he is paid to perform

is he under paid
sure is

thats why he has the day job

may have several day jobs over the years

may only have one band

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Brian, there wouldn't be an argument if everyone just sticks to the dictionary definition, as opposed to complicating matters by expanding the scope.

there wouldnt be an argument if everyone just agreed with you

but we dont

 

[LLL]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Well the only person I am aware of who makes a living playing music is Mincer.

No doubt at best, there's only a small handful here (Mincer included) on this forum whose occupation is playing music; those are the Professional Musicians... by dictionary definition.

Of course the members here choose gear based on the name. Why do you think Gibson and Fender are more popular than Ibanez and Yamaha? Yeah superb QC sure..

Same thing for effects, people prefer TC and Dunlop to 'inferior competitors' from overseas like Zoom. Come on, don't delude yourself. You may not realize it and that's okay.

Exactly - brand names carry clout.

Marketers know this. Fender knows this. Gibson definitely knows this.

And... lots of companies (not just music-related) rest on their name-brand laurels and provide a sub-par product to the consumer.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Dude you are pushing it...ha...ha.. So an elementary school kid raising money for a bicycle for example, by doing paper route, is a professional, per your definition.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/professional?s=t

adjective
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain:
a professional builder.
. . .
7.
undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain:
professional baseball.

Actually, a kid with a paper route is indeed professional, per your definition. "livelihood or for gain" You're so caught up in your own bias you missed it.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Actually, a kid with a paper route is indeed professional, per your definition. "livelihood or for gain" You're so caught up in your own bias you missed it.

My definition? What? It's copied directly from Dictionary.com. Click the link I posted. Me bias? Lol....

FYI I am a pure hobbyist (that's 'euphemism' for bedroom player) for 26 years of my guitar playing so, you might want to make sure who is biased in this argument.