what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

[indie folk guy]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

I think this is a terrible idea, for a couple reasons
1) it's expensive
2) it won't sound good
3) you won't get the decrease in volume you are really seeking

Depending on what type of practice needs you have search for a low wattage amp like a 5 watter. The smaller the speaker you can get the better (at least imho) a 12 or 15 will project and have much more bass content than a 6.5-10.

I guess a lot depends on your practice situation, I live in an apartment I can't get away with practicing on my 15 watt Egnater Tweaker with a 2x12" cab I wouldn't even try using a 100 watt head with an even bigger cabinet.

Even something like a Blackstar HT5 can be too loud depending on the practice situation.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Toe-Knee]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

expensive? Hardly. Adding triode/pentode can be as the OT requires different taps.

but power scaling can be added really cheap there isn't much to it.

As has already been said it depends on your situation.

I also live in an apartment and can happily run 50-100w heads through a 2x12 just so long as I do so before 7pm on weekdays and between 10am-10pm on weekends.

I am lucky however in having decent neighbours that wont even complain regardless unless I do it at say 3am but I do it within the above times just to be nice.

 

[indie folk guy]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

FACEPALM!

pulling the two tubes and chaging your output load isn't really modding the amp it's just the pentode/triode switch, personally for what it is I find it to be a hassle. Pick an amp that sounds great for practice. Adding power scaling/attenuation is an actual mod to your amp (or a small box you plug into) neither of those are cheap. Furthermore if you had tried any of these options (which I have) you'd realize that in actuality the volume is still overwhelming for probably 90% of practice situations. But what dictates practice for this particular user?

Are we talking about bedroom practice?
Are we talking about practice with a bassist and drummer?

There a lot of variables to consider and the important information here hasn't even been provided.

If you want to share useful knowledge figure out what type of practice is being done (apartment, bedroom, with/without a band), style of music, does the amp need clean headroom, does the amp need to be pedal friendly, what type of a tone is desired?

I for one have never in my life considered a 50 watt tube head a practice amp I don't even gig with amps like that anymore there is just almost no need, you can never dial that amp into it's sweet spot because you get miked up and engineers tell you to turn down. 15-30 watt amps are what I play these days.

Congratulations for being able to practice in your apartment essentially whenever you want. I work at least 10am to 9pm 7 days a week between owning my own business and working as a retail manager. So apartment practicing for me is limited to actual practice amps I like using the Fender Mustang not quite as nice as a real tube amp but damn near close and it doesn't annoy the neighbors/roomates plus it has a headphone jack and integrates to a computer nicely for dicking around.

 

[Toe-Knee]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

FACEPALM!

pulling the two tubes and chaging your output load isn't really modding the amp it's just the pentode/triode switch, personally for what it is I find it to be a hassle. Pick an amp that sounds great for practice. Adding power scaling/attenuation is an actual mod to your amp (or a small box you plug into) neither of those are cheap.

Congratulations for being able to practice in your apartment essentially whenever you want. I work at least 10am to 9pm 7 days a week between owning my own business and working as a retail manager. So apartment practicing for me is limited to actual practice amps I like using the Fender Mustang not quite as nice as a real tube amp but damn near close and it doesn't annoy the neighbors/roomates plus it has a headphone jack and integrates to a computer nicely for dicking around.

man those are some long days! Im glad I get it easy with 7am-3pm mon to thurs and 7-1pm on Fridays.

As for the power scaling thing check this out!

http://www.skipzcircuits.com/VariWattFX.html

$64.50 and they also do other variants and such. To buy the parts alone its far cheaper but $64 is nothing for how well it works

 

[dr. ad]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

in this amp, a half power switch can't be done
and i wouldn't recommend running in triode for recording or gigging

jumpering the effects loop (level set a bit over halfway) will get the most out of it

 

[everdrone]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

thanks guys, I was talking a very loud amp that is nonmaster volume, the ampeg v4, through my 212. I need extended bass response for my heavy rock music. I only play in c# in practice and in my 50+ songs in my signature and am into chugging and fuzzed out tones. power scaling seems really cool, I am trying to wrap my head around it, I would definitely not install it myself but my repair guy that has my krk rokit 6" that he is working on seems legit to do this sort of thing. I have an SG standard with SD c5/pearlygates and an epiSG with emg81/85. I have a proco ratII pedal and a black arts Pharaoh fuzz and decimator noisegate for the noisy high gain stuff

then I could trade in my marshall jcm900 for the ampeg v4 master volume and have even more of teh vintage uuber heaviez of my dreamz ;-) might be too loud for practice in a band setting tho so I would not do it then, prolly ampeg v2 50 watt version is too loud too... I have a 5 watt epiphone valve junior combo I got from MF for $100 and it is WAYY tooo loud, I use my computer for guitar practicing or just pump pedals through the combo like my oxford tech 21 character series pedal. thanks yall I appreciate any and all input.

 

[everdrone]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

half power switch is not possible per above...I did some research that reminded me that the ampeg v2/v4 has probs, on stonerrocklives forum dude's v4 just fried recently, hard to repair. I dont wanna keep runnin to the amp repair dude. I remember B2D was using the attenuator and his carvin amp fried 5 years ago... prolly keep the marshall jcm900 and keep lookin to see if I should replace it and just get the orange tiny terror combo in 12 months or so...some like the half power switch, others dont...I need to look into that marshall with the power scaling and other options, some amps just sound good at any volume for sure!

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

I don't have any Opinions, but i do have several Onions.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

Here's how i see it, bro: you have an Orange Thunderverb and an SG Standard. At this point, you dont really get BETTER gear...you just get DIFFERENT gear :smokin:

 

[everdrone]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

rock on bruthaz :beerchug:

 

[some_dude]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

does the half power switch sound good on other amps like the new Orange th100, Mesa Boogie Rectifier and Roadster, Tiny Terror, and countless others?

In my opinion? No, it doesn't sound particularly good.

Out of all the power reduction options available on a Mesa (half power, variac, pentode/triode, tube rectifier, class A-A/B) the least effective is reducing the number of tubes. All it's ever done for me is thinned out the sound. The difference between 50w and 100w is minuscule, so it's not like I'm getting a whole lot of extra compression... just a thinner sound. If I could only turn up to 4 before, now I can turn up to 4.5 and my tone is thinned out. Big f*cking deal...

Far more effective are variacs and pentode/triode. A good variac circuit will sag the headroom available in the power amp with no effect on the preamp. With my Roadster it reduces the volume more effectively than the 50w/100w option and it does it with less of an impact on the overall girth of my sound. It does change the voice slightly, but it doesn't wimpify my sound.

Pentode/triode is more useful for re-voicing a channel between rhythm or lead duties. Pentode is bigger, bolder and more articulate. Great for rhythm. Triode gives a bit more of a mid emphasis and the tone smoother and more compressed. Great for lead.

is it worth buying an awesome 100 watt amp like an Ampeg V4....and then add a half power switch?

Nope.

Typically, a 100w amp on 50w mode won't sound like the 50w version. The difference is generally due to the transformers. The 50w version's smaller transformers will be under more stress as the volume increases, which induces all that cool sh*t as you push the amp harder. The transformers in a 100w amp on the other hand won't be strained as hard when they're only trying to produce 50w of power.

 

[Fresh_Start]

man those are some long days! Im glad I get it easy with 7am-3pm mon to thurs and 7-1pm on Fridays.

As for the power scaling thing check this out!

http://www.skipzcircuits.com/VariWattFX.html

$64.50 and they also do other variants and such. To buy the parts alone its far cheaper but $64 is nothing for how well it works

That kit could work, but you need to know how to split the power rail so that you are reducing voltage in the poweramp section of the circuit only. Otherwise, by the time you've dropped the voltage enough to reduce output the preamp voltages will be WAY too low and the preamp voicing will be completely different.

Cheers,
Chip

 

[Grindspine]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

I occassionally use the half-drive mode on my Mesa/Boogie 2:Ninety power amp. I generally prefer full power for cleans (more dynamic and minimal tube saturation) and full power for heavy rhythm (tighter, more powerful bass response). The half-drive mode is pretty situational for me. I think it works extremely well for fast punk-like rhythms with a spongy, fast, saturated feel.

Besides the volume drop, half-drive really tends to shift the focus of the upper mid saturation and lose some bass response.

Honestly, if I were short a patch cable, controlling half-drive mode would be the first thing in my rig I'd skip; last month while jamming I had a patch cable short out, so did just that. But, it isn't a bad option to use once in a while if you have it.

 

[dystrust]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

The high / low power switch on a mark series Mesa shuts off the class A/B tubes in favor of the class A tubes dropping power from about 85 watts to something like 15 watts (roughly). It works pretty well, but the sound of the amp is quite different as a result.

OTOH the high / low power switch on my Jubilee 2555 is a pentode / triode switch. IMO the amp sounds like muddy poo in low power mode, so I always run it at full power.

 

[everdrone]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

thanks guys, lots to research and ponder here, great stuff

In my opinion? No, it doesn't sound particularly good.

Out of all the power reduction options available on a Mesa (half power, variac, pentode/triode, tube rectifier, class A-A/B) the least effective is reducing the number of tubes. All it's ever done for me is thinned out the sound. The difference between 50w and 100w is minuscule, so it's not like I'm getting a whole lot of extra compression... just a thinner sound. If I could only turn up to 4 before, now I can turn up to 4.5 and my tone is thinned out. Big f*cking deal...

Far more effective are variacs and pentode/triode. A good variac circuit will sag the headroom available in the power amp with no effect on the preamp. With my Roadster it reduces the volume more effectively than the 50w/100w option and it does it with less of an impact on the overall girth of my sound. It does change the voice slightly, but it doesn't wimpify my sound.

Pentode/triode is more useful for re-voicing a channel between rhythm or lead duties. Pentode is bigger, bolder and more articulate. Great for rhythm. Triode gives a bit more of a mid emphasis and the tone smoother and more compressed. Great for lead.



Nope.

Typically, a 100w amp on 50w mode won't sound like the 50w version. The difference is generally due to the transformers. The 50w version's smaller transformers will be under more stress as the volume increases, which induces all that cool sh*t as you push the amp harder. The transformers in a 100w amp on the other hand won't be strained as hard when they're only trying to produce 50w of power.

this really summed it up for me, thanks for taking the time to spell this out too :approve:

 

[everdrone]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

OTOH the high / low power switch on my Jubilee 2555 is a pentode / triode switch. IMO the amp sounds like muddy poo in low power mode, .

lol I dont wantz thatz muddy poo mode:thanks::bling:

 

[Van Noord]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

Only one of my amps has a half power switch.
I wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there.
Actually, I'd just use the concern you have for an excuse to by a lower watt amp so I had both needs covered.

 

[Hellion]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

My Fender 75 has a low power switch. I've never been able to hear a big difference between the two. I don't run a lot at full power though anymore. I've still got really good hearing (despite what my ex wife said) and have never found a real reason to max it out. However, I suspect it'd be similar in response to what a 50W Marshall vs a 100W Marshall would be. The 50 watters aren't really any quieter, but they seem to hit a wall faster without the extra 50 in headroom.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

My Fender 75 has a low power switch. I've never been able to hear a big difference between the two. I don't run a lot at full power though anymore. I've still got really good hearing (despite what my ex wife said) and have never found a real reason to max it out. However, I suspect it'd be similar in response to what a 50W Marshall vs a 100W Marshall would be. The 50 watters aren't really any quieter, but they seem to hit a wall faster without the extra 50 in headroom.

Oh yeah, your thinking is absolutely correct. You really don't notice a low power switch that much until you hit medium to full volume on an amp. Once an amps volume starts blooming and getting a little obnoxious, that's when you feel the difference in the half power switch.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: what's your opinion on half power switch? tone drain?should I mod an amp for it?

If you have a 100 watt amp. you can change it to 50 watts by removing the 2 outside power tubes. It will sound the same, just 50 watts. You will need to correct the ohmage on the back of the amp. If you were running the 100 watts at 8 ohms, the 50 watts will need to be corrected to 4 ohms on the amp. You can still run it through your 8 ohm cabinet, but at 4 ohms. You don't need a half switch.

Bingo, the reason they all hate it is that they don't adjust the impedance. Case closed.