where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Check, please! I'd rather solder than read this crap.

And I hate soldering.

 

[briggleman]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not underrated ones

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not underrated ones

David, as I said, you do seem to be intelligent and have a greater command of the written word, more so than I. I do not recall having written "deaf idiot" in any of my responses to anyone in here. The OP seems to have a great knowledge of guitars, what makes them sound great and wants to make sure that every part in the chain leaves no doubt in his ultimate goal of that perfect tone. Now, I am a engineer by education, a hobbyist in electronics ( Heathkit's and I were on a first name basis, and some of you in here will not know what Heathkit's were). I DO KNOW that resistance values do matter.... can my ear tell the difference of 20K??? No, not in my present stage of life and hearing loss, but 80K, yes now we are in my range and experience. Even Seymore Duncan had to change a resistance value of only 25k in one of there pedals to fix its tone after its release. Others have already shown documentation from other sites like Stewart Mac that give a solid explanation as to how pot resistance effects tone. Now, our OP did test the pots, He does believe it effects his end result and only wanted to know where to get higher quality parts.

I applogize for the NUTS comment, but after reading what you wrote and the way it was written (very well ) I found it strange in its contradiction.

Now for the bold fonts, I will just change the size rather than use bold. I wear reading glasses and thats the main reason I use the larger or bold lettering.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

I have turned my volume and tone down a third and completely forgotten about it for days. I don't think that 20k is going to matter in the long run (or short run for that matter).

I have to disagree with bold text being easier to read. I can't focus as easily on bright text, and the default color scheme makes bold text very large, white, and much brighter. This is good for making a single word or sentence stick out, but reading an entire paragraph in bold is very difficult for me.

What? A minor % of light variation affects your ability to read but a 30% sound variance is unnoticable. What strange concious perception you have.:eyecrazy:

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Check, please! I'd rather solder than read this crap.

And I hate soldering.

You don't have to.:cool2:

Go make babies.




















Sorry; .... I know they can't solder for nuts but it beats reading threads you don't want to read.

Now go to my Forum Camel thread and say something irrelevant.:bling:

 

[David Collins]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Vulture, where did I say that that no one would be able to hear a 20% variance? If you had actually read my post without incredibly creative interpretation, you would find that I offered no opinion or leaning whatsoever as to whether that difference would be more likely noticeable or not. To be honest, I would be surprised if most people couldn't hear it in a real time shift from one to the other. The 2% change you seem certain you could reliably detect, I'm honestly a bit more skeptical of, yet I'm still not claiming certainty until I've seen or done testing to confirm it. Though skeptical, I would not be terribly shocked (a bit surprised, yes) if it could be detected.

Without blind tests, your certainty or anyone else's in the absolute effects hold little more weight than the certainty held by people wearing magic bracelets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3RjPGOEFhE

Though I have a hunch that differences in pot value will not be discernible below somewhere in the 5% range in controlled testing, and hardly noticeable until at least 3 or 4 times that amount in applied use in performance, I'm not saying with any certainty that my assumptions are correct, or that anyone else's are wrong. All I am saying is that I have a hard time believing anyone else's certainty is correct either, and if they really want to understand effects of such changes as honestly as possible, there are fairly simple tests which one could carry out to provide answers.

Briggleman, no hard feelings about the "nuts" comment (all in context - it's a forum, and I've been called worse ) and I understand your arguments as to helping the OP with their original question. Point taken, duly noted, and I was indeed in error by not at least referencing a source like RS in my original post. And no, it was not you who called me a deaf idiot, but rather the general tone of prior authors on both sides toward anyone who's experience or opinions may have been contrary.

No offense intended to anyone in regards to the "magical bracelets" comment and link, by the way. This is simply a poignant and tangible example of just how fallible our sense of certainty can sometimes be. It is referenced simply to emphasize the importance of controlled, blind testing to determine real effects of about anything, especially when involved with sensory perceptions so fickle as our hearing.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

You don't have to.:cool2:

Go make babies.

Sorry; .... I know they can't solder for nuts but it beats reading threads you don't want to read.

Now go to my Forum Camel thread and say something irrelevant.:bling:

See, that's just the thing. When I started reading this thread, it wasn't something that I felt I needed to avoid. It's not like it was something obviously crazy in the Sound Room that you knew right away what it was.

I'll see your suggestion and raise you a counter-suggestion: Why don't the people who are making it uncivil and unfun just stop?

 

[David Collins]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Sorry, just on more point. Vulture, you said above -

If I stuck a 10K resistor on my Vol pot in series with it; Will I be able to percieve a difference? you bet I will. Have you any idea what that difference is?

Let's look at that idea for a moment. If you stuck a 10kΩ resistor on the hot side your volume pot, in series between it and the pickup, then yes, I honestly expect you should be able to hear a noticeable difference. If you stuck it on the other side however, between ground and the lower lug, then I expect you likely would not. The former example is series in the signal chain, the latter simply a 2% increase parallel to it (assuming a 500kΩ pot). Big difference.

This latter example of placing it on the ground side (which would effectively be the same as changing the volume pot value) would be a very small effect on the whole circuit. To look at it in another light, this would be the same difference as taking a 510kΩ volume pot, and soldering a 25.5MΩ (25,500kΩ) resistor across the outer lugs. That 25,500kΩ resistor is what it would take to create a 10kΩ drop in total resistance of the pot.

Now if you have a pickup coil that around 8-12kΩ, wired parallel to a 510kΩ resistor (the pot), then to another 500kΩ resistor in series with a capacitor (the tone pot), and then also hooked up in parallel to the input impedance of the amp of around 1MΩ, the likeliness of hooking another 25,500kΩ resistor to this whole mix seems a bit less likely to be noticeable.

Again though, who knows. If you think it may actually be worth worrying about, run a test and you'll find out.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

How about comprehending what I wrote; and maybe even what you wrote!

or the difference of a couple of Hz. in frequency;

Hz does not = %

The 2% change you seem certain you could reliably detect, I'm honestly a bit more skeptical of,

As to the 20%, maybe go back and read what you posted.

Again

Have you any idea what that difference is? No , otherwise you wouldn't have wasted paragraphs on your " blind test", etc.

Without blind tests, your certainty or anyone else's in the absolute effects hold little more weight than the certainty held by people wearing magic bracelets.

So if we don't adhere to your methodology we have no relevance?
Then let's denigrate by saying things lke " magic bracelet people "
or "Socratic dialogues ". About as relevant as your methadology.
Are you a member of the Skeptics Society too?

This is a highly predictable response . It is over elaborated, self perpetuating drivel.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Sorry, just on more point. Vulture, you said above -



Let's look at that idea for a moment. If you stuck a 10kΩ resistor on the hot side your volume pot, in series between it and the pickup, then yes, I honestly expect you should be able to hear a noticeable difference. If you stuck it on the other side however, between ground and the lower lug, then I expect you likely would not. The former example is series in the signal chain, the latter simply a 2% increase parallel to it (assuming a 500kΩ pot). Big difference.

This latter example of placing it on the ground side (which would effectively be the same as changing the volume pot value) would be a very small effect on the whole circuit. To look at it in another light, this would be the same difference as taking a 510kΩ volume pot, and soldering a 25.5MΩ (25,500kΩ) resistor across the outer lugs. That 25,500kΩ resistor is what it would take to create a 10kΩ drop in total resistance of the pot.

Now if you have a pickup coil that around 8-12kΩ, wired parallel to a 510kΩ resistor (the pot), then to another 500kΩ resistor in series with a capacitor (the tone pot), and then also hooked up in parallel to the input impedance of the amp of around 1MΩ, the likeliness of hooking another 25,500kΩ resistor to this whole mix seems a bit less likely to be noticeable.

Again though, who knows. If you think it may actually be worth worrying about, run a test and you'll find out.

WTF do you think your are talking about? apart from "Me, me, me".:cool2:

The OP and the first response

i just got 4 audio tapers,cts brand,and boy are they crap,i measured them with a multimeter and they didn't even come close to 500k,i'm taking them back for sure.
anyway my question is,where to get real 500k pots and not crap ones? i'm scared to order off the net cause i can't test them,is there a good brand out there,that you don't need to test.....any help would be appreciated,thanks

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10-23-2010, 06:51 PM #2 LtKojak
Ultimate Tone Slacker

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Milano, Italy
Age: 52
Posts: 1,826

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones
If you're getting CTS pots, that's the ones to get:

EP088 500K 0946 CTS

Not even one of the several hundreds I've gotten over the years measured less than 500K.

Once I got 50 of the Di Marzio branded CTS pots... NOT EVEN ONE of those went over 480K... mostly 440-475K.

HTH,
__________________
Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Did the OP ever say what kinds of numbers he was seeing on the pots he considered unacceptable?

 

[David Collins]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Vulture, I'm honestly a bit confused by your arguments -

When you wrote

If you think I can't hear the difference in a 20% variance in a pot and how it's affecting the signal or the difference of a couple of Hz. in frequency; Your full of " **IT ".

I simply disregarded it as a typo. Changing the value of a pot obviously not create any changes in frequency. Yes, it can effect the level of db drop at different frequencies, but but does not create any "difference of a couple of Hz".

As to the 20%, maybe go back and read what you posted.

No idea what you're talking about here. If it's confusion over the 2% change I mentioned, this was in regards to your claims of absolute certainty of ability to hear a 10kΩ change in a 500kΩ pot. That's the 2% I was referring to.

So if we don't adhere to your methodology we have no relevance?
Then let's denigrate by saying things lke " magic bracelet people "
or "Socratic dialogues ". About as relevant as your methadology.
Are you a member of the Skeptics Society too?

You don't need to adhere to my methodology. I just ask for any methodology, or even basic reasoning at all. Without this, then yes, I don't know how you can justify your certainty as any more reliable or correct than those who believe in the magic bracelets.

 

[fatigueofheart]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

I don't know; I haven't played with it much. What I would like is a smoother pot that's easier to turn fast with smaller knobs. I usually put CTS pots in my guitars; some of them are kind of stiff.

Alpha pots have smaller shafts and smoother play, you can get some from stewmac.

 

[fatigueofheart]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Vulture, I'm honestly a bit confused by your arguments -

When you wrote I simply disregarded it as a typo. Changing the value of a pot obviously not create any changes in frequency. Yes, it can effect the level of db drop at different frequencies, but but does not create any "difference of a couple of Hz".



No idea what you're talking about here. If it's confusion over the 2% change I mentioned, this was in regards to your claims of absolute certainty of ability to hear a 10kΩ change in a 500kΩ pot. That's the 2% I was referring to.



You don't need to adhere to my methodology. I just ask for any methodology, or even basic reasoning at all. Without this, then yes, I don't know how you can justify your certainty as any more reliable or correct than those who believe in the magic bracelets.

Changing the volume of the pot does affect the frequency kiddo, the extreme being 250k and 500k pots sound way different. I, I'm sure as others can hear the 10% variance on a pot. I actually have tested this in a methodical way of putting in pots with different variance to 500k , same brand, same look, same guitar, strings, etc. The results were not surprising, it was clearly audible. That's not to say I can tell which pots are on a random guitar because many variables make up a guitar's tone so it's almost like taking a wild shot such as what string tension is on the guitar to cause it to sound the way it does. But I do know my guitar and how it sounds, and how other pots sound with it. That said, we all put a lot of effort into the tone we get. If you don't then I question your seriousness as a musician. I don't mind putting the extra time and effort into getting my instrument sounding the way I want it to, to make it sound as good as I can, especially if it's a minor thing like getting good value pots.

 

[David Collins]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Changing the volume of the pot does affect the frequency kiddo,

I'll write this off as grammatical error, or lack of clarity in terminology.

If you say that changing the value (I assume you mean value, not volume) of the pot affects the frequency response curve, well yes, duh, of course it does. How much of a change is required to affect a consistently noticeable change is what is being discussed here, and not whether there is any effect or not.

When you say that changing the value affects the frequency, no it does not. Last I checked, no passive volume pot I know of can slow or speed up a signal and actually change frequencies unless we've stepped in to the Twilight Zone.

Sorry to get hung up on grammar and semantics, but obvious typos aside, I tend to read things as they are written. "Affects the frequency" means something entirely different than "affects the frequency response". It's as different as "affects the gas" vs "affects the gas milage".

So no, changes in volume pot values do not affect frequency. They can however affect frequency response.

 

[ericmeyer4]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

Did the OP ever say what kinds of numbers he was seeing on the pots he considered unacceptable?

Nope.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not underrated ones

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not underrated ones

I always use bold text and I have many reasons for it. One, I like it. Two, it stands out and is easier to read, Three, it had its intended effect and is there for a reason but it was not to be Obnoxious.

I intended for it to stand out. We are give many tools to use, by the creators of this forum, to make our posts clear, concise, and to give it our personality. I tend to use Italics when I quote someone.

I use ALL CAPS when I raise my voice in the virtual world of forums, .... By the way, was that your intent by saying "....ONE BIT,...." In your quoted text above? No need to yell. I am sorry if it was taken that way. I tend to jump on my soapbox when I see people disrespecting others in these forums and that is how I feel some have done in this case. If they believe that Pot resistance values have no influence on tone, that is fine, but to make fun of someone asking the question..... that I do not like..... and you should not either.

No, the bold text is just annoying. All the letters seem bundled up and make it harder to read, more fatiguing on the eyes. It's like overcompressed CD's - after a while it's just tiresome.

You stand out, but not in a good way. You just seem like the one dbag in the office talking louder than everyone because you think it'll get your point across better.

And no, my intent in capitalizing "ONE BIT" was to mock you for doing the same in the post I referenced.

We're not making fun of someone for asking about pot value differences - we're making fun of someone for being far to obsessed with what is, more or less, the placebo affect of tiny value differences.

 

[Brown Note]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

BTW, just to show how little difference the real pot value makes, get a linear pot! The regular logarithmic potentiometer that are used on all volume knobs works so that when it's turned down to half way, you actually have 91% attenuation instead of 50%.

 

[crguti]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

fighting for stupid things

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

BTW, just to show how little difference the real pot value makes, get a linear pot! The regular logarithmic potentiometer that are used on all volume knobs works so that when it's turned down to half way, you actually have 91% attenuation instead of 50%.

This is the very reason why I buy logarithmic (AKA audio) taper pots. I like the fact that they attenuate in this manner. It allows me to control the degree of overdrive saturation I get from my valve amplification. I adjust the pot without making the slightest reference to any numbers marked on or around the the control knob. I judge by ear. Amplifier channel switching becomes redundant.

It's only rock 'n' roll (but I like it).

 

[marvelous_seven]

Re: where to get REAL 500k pots,not undrated ones

When I thought this is (and will always be) Seymour's house,I feel sad.
Btw,I'll just watch and learn,if there's any lesson that is.
pcorn: