Which Mini?
- Thread starter GuitarDoc
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
FWIW I haven't heard a mini that sounds like a P-90, but I didn't test all the models and didn't test the ones I have extensively for that purpose. I have experience with Gibson Deluxe-style mini-hums, Antiquity Firebird and regular vintage Firebird. I didn't try all the Firebird flavors, like the overwound ones, however. I have tried Gibson overwound Firebirds. They just sound like a weak, low output set of 498/490s, which is not a bad thing, just not a P-90.
Thanks guys.
Yeah, I know that they don't sound like P-90s. Nothing sounds as great as a P-90.
I want to build a guitar (I'm actually in the process) that will get rid of the hum of a P-90 but sound as close as possible to a P-90. I'm not as bothered by P-90 hum as most people, I just want this guitar to be hum-free. I'm certainly willing to try a new flavor but don't want to depart too far from my P-90 love. I've tried a few stacked P-90s but didn't like the sound of any of them, and the increased thickness makes them problematic for mounting in thin guitars and still having some reasonable height adjustment. I don't want full-size buckers...got plenty of them. And I've got 5-6 Strats and 3-4 Teles so I've got singles covered.
I thought a mini might be a good compromise. But Is there one that sounds closer to a P-90 than it does to a full-size bucker or any single?
I actually already have 2 guitars with minis...a Firebird (very bright sounding) and a Wilshire (which sounds really good).
A Firebird might be too bright for what I want. So I'm probably looking for an overwound mini to give it more growl? I prefer alnico but if there is one with ceramic that fits the bill I might give it a try. (I actually have one P-90 with a ceramic that sounds great, but I've got 3-4 that I really hate).
So, with this additional info, got any suggestions for some minis?
Yeah, I know that they don't sound like P-90s. Nothing sounds as great as a P-90.
I want to build a guitar (I'm actually in the process) that will get rid of the hum of a P-90 but sound as close as possible to a P-90. I'm not as bothered by P-90 hum as most people, I just want this guitar to be hum-free. I'm certainly willing to try a new flavor but don't want to depart too far from my P-90 love. I've tried a few stacked P-90s but didn't like the sound of any of them, and the increased thickness makes them problematic for mounting in thin guitars and still having some reasonable height adjustment. I don't want full-size buckers...got plenty of them. And I've got 5-6 Strats and 3-4 Teles so I've got singles covered.
I thought a mini might be a good compromise. But Is there one that sounds closer to a P-90 than it does to a full-size bucker or any single?
I actually already have 2 guitars with minis...a Firebird (very bright sounding) and a Wilshire (which sounds really good).
A Firebird might be too bright for what I want. So I'm probably looking for an overwound mini to give it more growl? I prefer alnico but if there is one with ceramic that fits the bill I might give it a try. (I actually have one P-90 with a ceramic that sounds great, but I've got 3-4 that I really hate).
So, with this additional info, got any suggestions for some minis?
larryguitar
New member
Lollar's got a new noiseless P-90 with a different design from all the stacked attempts (which never sound particularly great, IMHO); from the demo's it sounds fabulous, but of course all demo's do.
Larry
Larry
freefrog
Well-known member
Hey, I've a Wilshire too, with the stock Epi style mini-hum in neck position and in the bridge slot... a Duncan SM1.
About your quest: P90's have typically a very high inductance (often more than 7H = higher than a DiMarzio Super Distortion) and therefore a low pitched resonant peak. So I'd try something with these features.
In the Duncan "Pickups comparison chart", the SM3 B has the lowest pitched resonant peak : 4khz, close to the 3.8khz of a vintage soapbar in the same chart.
it won't sound the same than a P90 for questions of "magnetic windows" but it might exhibit a similar EQing curve if paired with the right components IMHO.
Side notes:
1) the stock bridge PU of my Wilshire is apparently wound with 43AWG and has the inductance of a full-sized P.A.F. style humbucker. Suggestively, it sounded largely like that to my ears when it was still in this guitar: I've compared it once with the bridge HB of a SG and there was not much sonic differences to my ears (that's why I've changed it for a SM1, actually). YMMV.
2)For a P-90 tone without hum, I've personally got good results with...
*Kinman P90Hx.
*noise cancelling air coils in the Ilitch fashion - easy to wind since they include only a few hundreds of turns of thick wire... less easy to put in a guitar since they need a wide area to be laid. My experimental guitar hosts one in a square routing under a giant backplate.
*a mere P90 without magnets nor baseplate, hidden in the electronic cavity and used as a noise-cancelling dummy coil. I've paired it with some LRC filter correcting the whole EQing and giving the sound of... a mini-hum.
Gibson did apply the same principle with a few twists: they did use regular P90 bobbins but with rod magnets giving a lowered inductance and more dynamics. Then they wired these "fenderized" P90's in series with a dummy P90 inside the guitar. If memory serves me, that's what one finds in the "Blueshawk" model...
Good luck in your quest.
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Perhaps the Silencer series?
Those sound good, but over my budget.
Hey, I've a Wilshire too, with the stock Epi style mini-hum in neck position and in the bridge slot... a Duncan SM1.
About your quest: P90's have typically a very high inductance (often more than 7H = higher than a DiMarzio Super Distortion) and therefore a low pitched resonant peak. So I'd try something with these features.
In the Duncan "Pickups comparison chart", the SM3 B has the lowest pitched resonant peak : 4khz, close to the 3.8khz of a vintage soapbar in the same chart.
it won't sound the same than a P90 for questions of "magnetic windows" but it might exhibit a similar EQing curve if paired with the right components IMHO.
Side notes:
1) the stock bridge PU of my Wilshire is apparently wound with 43AWG and has the inductance of a full-sized P.A.F. style humbucker. Suggestively, it sounded largely like that to my ears when it was still in this guitar: I've compared it once with the bridge HB of a SG and there was not much sonic differences to my ears (that's why I've changed it for a SM1, actually). YMMV.
2)For a P-90 tone without hum, I've personally got good results with...
*Kinman P90Hx.
*noise cancelling air coils in the Ilitch fashion - easy to wind since they include only a few hundreds of turns of thick wire... less easy to put in a guitar since they need a wide area to be laid. My experimental guitar hosts one in a square routing under a giant backplate.
*a mere P90 without magnets nor baseplate, hidden in the electronic cavity and used as a noise-cancelling dummy coil. I've paired it with some LRC filter correcting the whole EQing and giving the sound of... a mini-hum.
Gibson did apply the same principle with a few twists: they did use regular P90 bobbins but with rod magnets giving a lowered inductance and more dynamics. Then they wired these "fenderized" P90's in series with a dummy P90 inside the guitar. If memory serves me, that's what one finds in the "Blueshawk" model...
Good luck in your quest.
That Kinman P90HX looks amazing, but way, way over my budget and I still am faced with the problem of depth.
Those certainly look interesting. Reasonable price. But 2 concerns: Is it a stacked coil design, and what is the depth? And does it have the shrillness that I find typical of ceramic magnets?
beaubrummels
Well-known member
The Silencers aren't stacked. The secondary coils are on each side of the P-90 coil. Samples don't sound brittle to me. There was a vid from SD showing how they were testing them, and discussing the decisions of the construction, but I can't find it now. Maybe find the thread when they were introduced.
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freefrog
Well-known member
I discover these Silencers and find their design really clever... Rentabilizes what many people have noticed (and that anyone can check by pulling off one single magnet in a P90 before to listen what it gives): the extended magnetic windows of real P90's. Well done, SD!
Just listened to that demo of the Silencers...Very cool!
The "Vintage" sounds great. The "Hot" may be getting too hot...getting a bit too much mids and sounds like it's also starting to break up and lose some of its clarity. Not too bad, still very cool. I didn't like the JJN (at least in this demo). Sounds overdriven and way too much mids. Makes me think of an overdriven JB (which I don't like at all, even under the best of circumstances).
Just watched the vid again. At least the mids that I'm hearing in the "Hot" and even the JJN aren't the upper mids of a JB. They sound lower, broader, and smoother. I think I could even get used to them the more I listen to them. Conversely, the more I listen to a JB the more I hate it.
But mostly I'm intrigued by its design. Nothing short of amazing. And it doesn't have the thickness that I am worried about.
Boy, I am really tempted to get the Silencer and forget about the mini.
The "Vintage" sounds great. The "Hot" may be getting too hot...getting a bit too much mids and sounds like it's also starting to break up and lose some of its clarity. Not too bad, still very cool. I didn't like the JJN (at least in this demo). Sounds overdriven and way too much mids. Makes me think of an overdriven JB (which I don't like at all, even under the best of circumstances).
Just watched the vid again. At least the mids that I'm hearing in the "Hot" and even the JJN aren't the upper mids of a JB. They sound lower, broader, and smoother. I think I could even get used to them the more I listen to them. Conversely, the more I listen to a JB the more I hate it.
But mostly I'm intrigued by its design. Nothing short of amazing. And it doesn't have the thickness that I am worried about.
Boy, I am really tempted to get the Silencer and forget about the mini.
Just ordered a set of Silencers (vintage neck, hot bridge).
Still considering the mini for the neck, but we'll see. It all comes down to tone now that I'm not worried about the depth of the silencers. It'll be a few months until my guitar is finished, so I'll be sitting on pins and needles waiting to see how they sound.
Still considering the mini for the neck, but we'll see. It all comes down to tone now that I'm not worried about the depth of the silencers. It'll be a few months until my guitar is finished, so I'll be sitting on pins and needles waiting to see how they sound.
I will look forward to the review when the guitar is finished. I haven't had them in my hands yet...maybe when I go out to NAMM in January.
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