Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

T

T.M.A.

New member
Ok so, I've got another thread going on right now called "OK, It's gotta be the guitars" and that explains in detail my dilemma, but here's the short of it:

I've got a JCM 800 2004 (vertical input) running through a 2x12 (Avatar Contemporary Cab) with Vintage 30's. On 1, the sound is Godly. Past that it's ear bleeding harshness bright festival from hell. I'm actually going to mod the amp next week to take some of the brightness down cuz it's just unbearable, but I'm hearing from some that Vintage thirties could actually be a bad voicing for the 800.

Any suggestions about speakers? The amp is stock -that's been verified.

So I guess the question is how much of the harshness is from the speakers and how much is from that dang stinkin bright amp?

PEACE...
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

Put that baby on a 4x12, all the knobs pointing to the right before making judgements ;)

I'm afraid THE Marshalls, like one of yours do not feature a "silent mode".
Honestly I think I'd rather throw up through a straw than play a stock JCM800 quietly.

Apart from that, I've got a soft spot for G12-65s.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

I was on a similar speaker quest for my 2204 JCM 800 several years ago and ended up going with Scumback after trying them in a shootout. They are somewhat expensive but definitely worth the extra money in my opinion. If you call Jim and let him know the tone you are looking for he can advise on the best options.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

IIRC the cabs of the time were loaded with G12-65's. I use 2 65's and 2 G12-30's in my 4 x 12 and it's a great combo although granted my amp is not a 800.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

The G12H-30 Hendrix used are bass speakers and would have less brightness. Make sure the presence is down, as well as the treble. Maybe try some beam-blockers.

Vertical inputs is only important for the 2203. It would mean the amp may have an extra filter cap that Marshall dropped when they changed around the time of horizontal inputs. The 2204 didn't change.

Even though I love old Marshalls and would love to have another 2203 or 2550, the DSL100 hits it out of the park at low volumes.

Oh, and maybe try the amp section next time LOL!
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

youngthrasher9 said:
You could look into the WGS Veteran 30 speakers, they are suppose to be a clone of the Vintage 30 except with the high mids dialed back a bit. I've never tried them, but that's what I hear.

http://wgs4.com/content/vet30
Click to expand...

Right on. I'm glad someone recommended those. I was a little skeptical of them, but now I think I'll give em a try. Victor at Mojave Amps (who's really nice and spent a lot of time with me over the phone) suggested that I try WGS's 30 watt Reaper. I think it's 55 kHz. I'm gonna order a pair before modding my amp and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for the input guys!
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

65s. Another nice thing about the 65s is that they are lower sensitivity (97 db) so you can turn the amp up a bit more into its sweet spot before it gets too loud.

If it's a 50 watt amp then the G12H30 could be considered as it has relaxed upper mids-just the opposite of the V30.

Speakers you don't want would include the G12T75 because, although it has scooped mids (really too scooped), it has a razor sharp treble. And the G12M70, the most hated stock speaker in the history of Marshall amps.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

Lake Placid Blues said:
65s. Another nice thing about the 65s is that they are lower sensitivity (97 db) so you can turn the amp up a bit more into its sweet spot before it gets too loud.

If it's a 50 watt amp then the G12H30 could be considered as it has relaxed upper mids-just the opposite of the V30.

Speakers you don't want would include the G12T75 because, although it has scooped mids (really too scooped), it has a razor sharp treble. And the G12M70, the most hated stock speaker in the history of Marshall amps.
Click to expand...


Well I guess I've gotta try some 65's then too... Alright lake placid Blues. Right on. Your suggestions have been very helpful in this journey. Thanks man!
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

IMO you have got more options with a 2203 than a 2204. A G12-65 Marshall cabinet will sound a lot better with 50 watts cranked up with more power tube distortion than with a 2203 100 watt head. I like the single 4x12 G12H 30 cabinet , and I'd say thats the ultimate for your 2204. Also love the G12-65 single cabinet with the 2204, but NOT so much with the 2203. Lots of people digging the G12H-30/Vintage 30 mix, but that just sounds somewhat closer, and not as good as a pure G12-65 loaded cabinet , again, IMO.

I didn't dig the single G12-65 cabinet with my 100 watt 2204,but once I stuck a greenback cabinet on the bottom and ran as a full stack G12-65/ G12m-25, it really filled out. The bottom cabinet has a lot of added low end due to its proximity effect with the floor and sides of the room, plus its straight non angled design .A lot also has to do with the power distribution ( with a 100 watt head) and you cranking more power tube distortion into the 8 speakers vs. 4. Thats why the 50 watt amp is easier to work with one cabinet only.

The single 4x12 G12-65 is a bright speaker for a 100 watt cabinet ( i've heard it said it was modeled after Van Halens VH-1 mix of G12M/JBL). With 100 watts its overbearing, but with 50 watts , you have to add more power tube distortion to the mix and it evens out in a very nice way.

Basically you cannot go wrong with 50 watts and a G12-65, the G12h-30 ( the best IMO) , and the G12H-30/V30 Mix. Where you get into serious trouble is trying to run G12h-30's and the Geenbacks in the same cabinet, and thats a recipe for disaster...that works much better in a full stack with the full top cabinet loaded with g12h's and the bottom laoded with greenbacks ( or vice versa). They do NOT mix well in the same cabinet.

This stuff is all my opinion. It may or may not not be suppoted by anything else ever written about this topic.
 
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Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

Don't forget the WGS et65. Just got a pair but haven't broken them in yet... Also, the flavor of the month in tubes is the kt77. It's supposed to replace the el34 with less brightness/harshness.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

Ahh yes... Very cool suggestions indeed everyone. Just wish some of this stuff was a little easier to obtain where I'm from, but if there is a will there is a way! Right? I'm gonna go ahead and get on this task. I'll let everybody know how it goes.

One thing that I am going to find a little bit hard to do is ditch those vintage 30's. Even though right now things are JUST NOT working, there is a real identifiable bad-ass quality in those speakers, that I'm just so attached to and find to be very expressive. I was thinking that first I might try doing the bright mods on the amp. Then, if those don't work with my vintage 30's, I could always return it back to stock real quick and start the speaker swapping marathon. OR, do you guys suggest that I simply start out by swapping speakers and working from that direction first? I know that 800's are not particularly known for their consistency, so maybe I just got the Bright Beast? It sounds absolutely fantastic with those V 30's-except for that grating brightness of course.

Also, for recording I know that V 30's are pretty much the standard for perfectly sitting in the mix and I do intend to do quite a bit of recording soon. I thought it would be great if I could have a cab that would be great to perform with as well as record...

Also, any opinions on the WGS Reaper 30 55hz? Victor from Mojave said that for my brightness dilemma, the Celestion 65 or G12 h30 would help to some degree, but not as much as I would hope. Of course you don't know until you try, but he strongly suggested that I start off with the WGS Reaper 30 55hz. I of course have an aversion to anything but Celestions for some reason, but who knows? Maybe they would kick ass!

Aside from that, is there a cost effective resource that one might obtain the celestions from? I know Avatar will send you anything you want...
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

The cheapest option is to find other cabs to plug into and test drive them without buying. EVH cabs come loaded with G12M-25s, Marshall 1960s have G12T-75s, Mesa cabs come loaded with Vintage 30 but they sound totally different from the Vintage 30s loaded in your Avatar cab. And on that note, the Marshall cabs loaded with Marshall Vintage speakers will sound different from the V30s in your Avatar as well. If you have friends that play, some of them may have something you like in their basement or garage that you can test drive.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

I am consider buying two G12 Heritage 65's for my JCM 800 2204 head. please, tell me the advantages and disadvantages if i run 2x12 cabinet with that head ?
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

IMHO all JCM800's need the bright cap clipped...

It's worth trying as it's quick, easy and much cheaper than new speakers and if it doesn't work it's easy to put back...
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

the guy who invented fire said:
IMHO all JCM800's need the bright cap clipped...

It's worth trying as it's quick, easy and much cheaper than new speakers and if it doesn't work it's easy to put back...
Click to expand...

HEEEL Yeah. I shall proceed with the clipping. Actually, I heard that there are two ways to approach this situation. Here is a very interesting link on the same topic (jcm 800 brightness):

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41006

The last post is the kicker. In fact I'll just copy and paste it. Here:


The treble peakers tighten up the sound... 800s are bright. I found what works great with them is to leave it stock otherwise but increase the negative feedback. This tightens up the tone and makes it less harsh. I'd suggest you to return the 500pf peaker and try reducing your negative feedback resistor value. 47k/16ohm tap is a great combination.

I've got a tech an hour away that should be able to take care of this mod easily. Where I live, there's a guitar center and that's it. The next city with anything worth playing is 2.5 hours away. I've made the trip before and if this mod doesn't do it. I guess I'll just have to make it again :).

Thanks for everything guys. All suggestions are still welcome.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

Hands down the G1265. I have an Orange 4x12 loaded with them and it just sounds meant to be with any Marshall ive tried through it.
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

T.M.A. said:
HEEEL Yeah. I shall proceed with the clipping. Actually, I heard that there are two ways to approach this situation. Here is a very interesting link on the same topic (jcm 800 brightness):

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41006

The last post is the kicker. In fact I'll just copy and paste it. Here:


The treble peakers tighten up the sound... 800s are bright. I found what works great with them is to leave it stock otherwise but increase the negative feedback. This tightens up the tone and makes it less harsh. I'd suggest you to return the 500pf peaker and try reducing your negative feedback resistor value. 47k/16ohm tap is a great combination.

I've got a tech an hour away that should be able to take care of this mod easily. Where I live, there's a guitar center and that's it. The next city with anything worth playing is 2.5 hours away. I've made the trip before and if this mod doesn't do it. I guess I'll just have to make it again :).

Thanks for everything guys. All suggestions are still welcome.
Click to expand...

Forget a tech...just reach in there and clip that cap on one side then just move it out of the way...try it.

If it works then leave it as is...if you're still unhappy then take it to a tech!
 
Re: Which speaker are best with a JCM 800 2204???

the guy who invented fire said:
Forget a tech...just reach in there and clip that cap on one side then just move it out of the way...try it.

If it works then leave it as is...if you're still unhappy then take it to a tech!
Click to expand...


SNAP! Ok, how do I locate it? Where is it? Picture diagram perhaps?
 
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