Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

[Jeremiah]

If you see a guitar that comes with EMGs or Blackouts as stock, you can be pretty certain it's aimed at metal guitarists. Yeah, we've all seen forum posts saying "my buddy uses EMGs for jazz" but nobody actually ever meets these people..:dunno:

In just about every other genre, people tend to criticize active pickups as sounding sterile, lifeless etc. (although also very "tight".)

But this doesn't seem to apply to bassists - you can get basses of all types, not just intended for extreme metal, with active pickups, 2-3 band EQ.

So what makes active electronics so much more accepted by average bassists than by average guitarists?

 

[B2D]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

I think it's because with bass strings and long scales, it's easier to capture extended low range and clarity with actives, not to mention active tonal circuits let you manipulate the raw tone coming out of the instrument, so that you can fine-tune your EQ on top of whatever amp you've got.

 

[B2D]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

Yeah, we've all seen forum posts saying "my buddy uses EMGs for jazz" but nobody actually ever meets these people..:dunno:

I'm liking your post for this sentence.

I haven't met that guy yet either.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

I suspect that bass guitarists can see the advantage of performing live on one instrument and tweaking its sound with active EQ rather than carrying a van load of gear.

It is also true to say that a bassist is expected to "fit in" with a band sound whereas guitarists are doing everything in their power to stand out - both within the band and when compared to other guitarists.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

Oh it depends on the style of music. An active bass really expands the range of the instrument. We're talking lower, deeper tones if you play hip-hop, we're talking more top-end clarity if you play fusion and we're talking the ability to be the perfect rhythm compliment in a punk three piece. I prefer active basses for almost all music except reggae, old school funk and soul. I only own a passive bass anymore but if I ever play some hip-hop again I would buy another music man stingray without hesitation.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

For certain styles of bass (like slap), compression and clarity are your friend. Active pickups also have a lot more EQ fine tuning options on hand, and sometimes the bass has to be EQ'd very precisely, much more than a guitar. Kind of like Funkfingers said about "fitting in" and guitarists "standing out". Just guitarists almost always need to turn down their bass because they are leaving very little room for the bass player.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

In addition to what has been said, another reason is that with active pickups you can do proper mixing.

Mixing passive pickups is trouble, especially if you do not have a real switch and need to connect the pots in a way that you can turn one all the way down without killing evening. Doing that does bad things to the resonance peak of the pickups which is a good thing only in some situations (I guess a real vintage class Jazz bass counts as one). With active pickups you don't have that problem, as long as each pickup has it's own preamp (impedance needs to be changed before the pots).

I elaborated on that in some other thread in some length, I can find a link if anybody cares.

 

[marcboomer]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

To me, it's all about compression. Bassists sometimes have a hard time hearing the high strings as loud as the low ones. Also those big strings can be very dynamic and an active circuit evens out the dynamics and you can play without as much concern of your picking attack. Then you can relax, have fun and do your stage dives and windmills...

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

So what makes active electronics so much more accepted by average bassists?

I ask myself the same question. I have many more passive basses than active basses, and I have many more problems with my active basses than with my passive basses. And I have no problem getting good tone out of my passive basses.

For the record, I have no idea what uOpt is talking about, but I have never experienced the problems he described on any of my passive basses.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

I ask myself the same question. I have many more passive basses than active basses, and I have many more problems with my active basses than with my passive basses. And I have no problem getting good tone out of my passive basses.

For the record, I have no idea what uOpt is talking about, but I have never experienced the problems he described on any of my passive basses.

Hmm, well, I know exactly what uopt is talking about. I had that problem with both of my P-basses which were passive but at one time I pieced together a warmoth J bass with the P+J pickups and threw in a duncan active pre-amp for passive pickups and never had that problem again. It's a real problem and many bass players fight with it.

I've never, ever had problems with an active bass, Anyone I know except one guy who was a d-bag that has played something like my old music man stingray and compares it to the passive is absolutely blown away by the capabilities of the active bass.

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

Fair enough. But I suppose I don't experience problems with my passive basses in large part because I don't invite problems by getting something with mismatched pickups to begin with.

I have two active basses that have given me problems. One had a degrading sound long before the battery alarm went off. You can chalk that one up to operator error if you want, but it's something I never would have experienced if it was passive. The other bass produces an annoying noise when one of the controls is turned all the way down. That absolutely is an on-board preamp issue.

I don't doubt that your active bass sounded great. But I'm no more impressed by that than I would be by someone showing me their foot-pedal preamp or rack mounted preamp or nice built-in preamp in their head or combo. I'm sorry if that makes me a d-bag, but I'm convinced that if you start with (compatible!) good quality pickups, it doesn't matter the least little bit to the tone whether the preamp is on board the bass or farther down the signal chain. (I do understand the convenience of having the controls on board.) As a matter of fact, based on what you and uOpt have written, I'd say that having onboard preamps has allowed people to get sloppy with their pickup choices, "people" being musicians and/or manufacturers.

I don't begrudge anyone the right to like what they like. Differences are what make the world go round. (That, and inertia.) For the people that like things I don't like, more power to 'em!

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

Amplifying a bass is a bit more complicated than amplifying a guitar due to the physics of sound amplification. The signal from passive pickups tend to be in a band of frequencies already populated by guitars, drums, vocal and keyboards. A bass with active electronics can extend to frequencies outside the range of these competing signals. Since active electronics are able to boost or attenuate frequencies over a wide sonic range they can deliver a signal to an amplifier that is more efficient to amplify, requiring less signal processing before or after amplification. This ability to EQ on the fly also makes it easier to make corrections while onstage. With passive pickups the EQ needs to be adjusted at the mixing board or amplifier which takes a persons attention away from playing.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

That almost piano-stringy, hi-fi tone that most of us think doesn't sound too great on a guitar, often sounds great on bass.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

Fair enough. But I suppose I don't experience problems with my passive basses in large part because I don't invite problems by getting something with mismatched pickups to begin with.

I have two active basses that have given me problems. One had a degrading sound long before the battery alarm went off. You can chalk that one up to operator error if you want, but it's something I never would have experienced if it was passive. The other bass produces an annoying noise when one of the controls is turned all the way down. That absolutely is an on-board preamp issue.

I don't doubt that your active bass sounded great. But I'm no more impressed by that than I would be by someone showing me their foot-pedal preamp or rack mounted preamp or nice built-in preamp in their head or combo. I'm sorry if that makes me a d-bag, but I'm convinced that if you start with (compatible!) good quality pickups, it doesn't matter the least little bit to the tone whether the preamp is on board the bass or farther down the signal chain. (I do understand the convenience of having the controls on board.) As a matter of fact, based on what you and uOpt have written, I'd say that having onboard preamps has allowed people to get sloppy with their pickup choices, "people" being musicians and/or manufacturers.

I don't begrudge anyone the right to like what they like. Differences are what make the world go round. (That, and inertia.) For the people that like things I don't like, more power to 'em!

I wasn't calling you a d-bag by any means. I knew an actual d-bag who took a beautiful bass and ripped the active electronics out of it just because he didn't spend enough time getting to know the bass (about 2 weeks after i sold it to him) because all he listend to is classic music so his ears prefer to hear guitars cutting through and bass as a complimentary instrument. Then he went crazy with his basslines to grab all the attention. He never played sustained deep notes, just busy, busy, busy basslines with a smug on his face. Then he would reject all thoughts of adding another guitarist or even some keys because he wanted to fill all the space. Of course the passive bass could be heard under my clean guitar tones, but once I'd add some distortion he'd have to dig in a bit which IMHO makes a bass sound bad. They have better tone when you let the amp push the volume and the player plays with a very gentle touch. An active player understands this more than passive players but it applies to both at the end of the day.

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

I wasn't calling you a d-bag by any means. I knew an actual d-bag who took a beautiful bass and ripped the active electronics out of it just because he didn't spend enough time getting to know the bass (about 2 weeks after i sold it to him) because all he listend to is classic music so his ears prefer to hear guitars cutting through and bass as a complimentary instrument. Then he went crazy with his basslines to grab all the attention. He never played sustained deep notes, just busy, busy, busy basslines with a smug on his face. Then he would reject all thoughts of adding another guitarist or even some keys because he wanted to fill all the space.

I'm sorry to hear about that d-bag experience, but I'm glad to know you don't necessarily think I'm a d-bag. Yeah, a bass player needs to know how to support the music, and sometimes that means deep sustained notes. Sometimes less is more.

Of course the passive bass could be heard under my clean guitar tones, but once I'd add some distortion he'd have to dig in a bit which IMHO makes a bass sound bad. They have better tone when you let the amp push the volume and the player plays with a very gentle touch. An active player understands this more than passive players but it applies to both at the end of the day.

Ah. That explains a lot. I tend to play aggressively. I am of the opinion that aggressive playing and digging in is just part of the bass player's tonal tool box, just as distortion is part of a guitar player's. I can see where a player with a light touch might want an active system. (Actually, I can see where any bass player might want an active system -- I don't think they're bad, I just don't think they're necessarily better than passive.) I can play with a light touch, and sometimes do, but the drawback to letting the amp push the sound is that it will push any sound, including fret buzz and string squeaks.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

It can depend on the amp. With the onboard preamp giving it plenty of punch, you can use a more direct and straightforward sounding rig, even sound good through the PA. Heads with active or passive input jacks, onboard compressors, graphic EQs and hi/lo pass filters you can use an active and passive bass at the same gig and one won't dwarf the other.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

I'm sorry to hear about that d-bag experience, but I'm glad to know you don't necessarily think I'm a d-bag. Yeah, a bass player needs to know how to support the music, and sometimes that means deep sustained notes. Sometimes less is more.



Ah. That explains a lot. I tend to play aggressively. I am of the opinion that aggressive playing and digging in is just part of the bass player's tonal tool box, just as distortion is part of a guitar player's. I can see where a player with a light touch might want an active system. (Actually, I can see where any bass player might want an active system -- I don't think they're bad, I just don't think they're necessarily better than passive.) I can play with a light touch, and sometimes do, but the drawback to letting the amp push the sound is that it will push any sound, including fret buzz and string squeaks.

A lot of string squeaks and fret buzz get completely eliminated with a nice light touch. I know this because my early recordings as a bassplayer humiliate me from hearing these. I had a GK 1001RB when i was a gigging bassist and it taught me how to move mass in dive bars and then eventually some halfway decent joints in Minneapolis back in 2005 to 2007. I learned the hard way how to use the light touch with a very powerful head on both passive and active basses. No FX, straight bass, not even a compressor! These days I no longer own a bass amp (since moving to Greece i do not have a guitar amp yet either) but if I ever get my hands on a GK over here I will be glad to offer my playing to some reggae or funk! That being said, if you are a rock player, I could understand the desire to dig in a bit on bass sometimes, especially if you play through a tube amp like an Ampeg. i prefer as clean of a tone as I can get with as much headroom as possible for most styles i like to play on bass though.

+ one million on the deep sustained notes/less is more comment. More bass players need to understand their job is to either make people dance, guard the groove or be the thunder when the drums have the groove locked down (i suppose a halfway decent riff can lock down the groove too a la Tom from RATM)

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

I believe active pickups and electronics were actually DESIGNED for bass initially, so that might be why. Then guitarists adopted them later too, But don't quote me 100% on that.

Wikipedia chimes in on this too if you look up what it has to say about active pickups, and says,

"The disadvantages of active pickup systems (pickups->preamp) are the power source (usually either a battery or phantom power) and higher cost. They are more popular on electric bass, because of their solid tone and improved clarity. Most piezoelectric and all optical pickups are active and include some sort of preamp.
The main advantages of active bass pickup systems is their cleaner, clearer more "Hi Fi" sound. Many players, notably Stanley Clarke, Flea, Victor Wooten, Abraham Laboriel and Doug Wimbish have used active bass pickups to produce their characteristic bass tones.
They also allow more "headroom"[citation needed] and dynamic range. Good quality active systems produce less noise and hum compared to their passive counterparts."

So yeah, we can make of that what we will too. Not saying Wiki is that reliable but it's interesting.

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

"The disadvantages of active pickup systems (pickups->preamp) are the power source (usually either a battery or phantom power) and higher cost. They are more popular on electric bass, because of their solid tone and improved clarity. Most piezoelectric and all optical pickups are active and include some sort of preamp.
The main advantages of active bass pickup systems is their cleaner, clearer more "Hi Fi" sound. Many players, notably Stanley Clarke, Flea, Victor Wooten, Abraham Laboriel and Doug Wimbish have used active bass pickups to produce their characteristic bass tones.
They also allow more "headroom"[citation needed] and dynamic range. Good quality active systems produce less noise and hum compared to their passive counterparts."

I'm OK with everything except that. My passive basses are dead quiet. I'm not saying high quality preamps make any noise at all, but they don't make less noise than good quality passive systems.


For the record, I once edited Wikipedia just to win an argument.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Why are active electronics more popular with bassists than guitarists?

The headroom argument is also nonsense.

Passive pickups have no head and can't clip. Doesn't make any sense.