Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
- Thread starter Benthedemon007
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Benthedemon007
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
But why would anyone pay that much if they could get their own custom-designed pups made by MJ for less?
But why would anyone pay that much if they could get their own custom-designed pups made by MJ for less?
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
Irresponsible speculation:
That's half of it, the other half is they don't necessarily want to sell aftermarket pickups but some people want them, so they set the price high.
Irresponsible speculation:
That's half of it, the other half is they don't necessarily want to sell aftermarket pickups but some people want them, so they set the price high.
EmiAba
Active member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
I agree that's because of the brand name. And I think they are good pickups, not great pickups. Duncans are better, of course, but the sound is the sum of different factors: the woods of the guitar, the strings, the amp, the effects and sometimes with this lucky coincidence even a gibson pickup can sound very good.
I agree that's because of the brand name. And I think they are good pickups, not great pickups. Duncans are better, of course, but the sound is the sum of different factors: the woods of the guitar, the strings, the amp, the effects and sometimes with this lucky coincidence even a gibson pickup can sound very good.
The Convert
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
I'm going to go back to the Les Paul analogy. There are a lot of single cutaways these days. At various price points, other companies provide more quality for the dollar than does Gibson. BUT, Gibson makes a "Les Paul". Even if it's Epiphone it has more credibility for most people than an ESP LTD, etc. I think most customers feel (maybe reasonably) that 1) A Les Paul name guitar is a guitar that's most likely to live up to that reputation, and 2) only a Les Paul (only certain ones) are likely to hold value, where any copy is essentially garbage when the first player is done with it.
Likewise, when Gibson says, THIS is the closest thing to the original PAF, that carries credibility, and even though other companies may do a better job, they don't have the same history to support the claim.
I'm going to go back to the Les Paul analogy. There are a lot of single cutaways these days. At various price points, other companies provide more quality for the dollar than does Gibson. BUT, Gibson makes a "Les Paul". Even if it's Epiphone it has more credibility for most people than an ESP LTD, etc. I think most customers feel (maybe reasonably) that 1) A Les Paul name guitar is a guitar that's most likely to live up to that reputation, and 2) only a Les Paul (only certain ones) are likely to hold value, where any copy is essentially garbage when the first player is done with it.
Likewise, when Gibson says, THIS is the closest thing to the original PAF, that carries credibility, and even though other companies may do a better job, they don't have the same history to support the claim.
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
Gibson feels justified that enough people that like their pups that they can ask what other pup manufacturers/winders are pricing their pickups for. The more that Gibson increases their pup prices they may really find out how much of a fan base that they truly have. Some manufacturers don't wish to compete with cheaper prices than their competitors. They choose to price similarly and to close the competitive gap. However if their product is of a lesser quality, or has a lesser demand then it can backfire on them. Gibson forgets that they are going on name alone, as their so called "clones or replica" humbuckers from earlier eras "aren't all that and a bag of chips" not with the wide choices, variations, and options available to the consumer. I currently have (2) BB Pro and (2) 57' Classic humbuckers in boxes, as that is my impression of Gibson humbuckers. I surely wouldn't buy Gibson humbuckers individually but would have to be stuck with them when purchasing one of their guitars. Gibson needs to wise up when it comes to pups and offer more diversity of selection and choice.
Gibson feels justified that enough people that like their pups that they can ask what other pup manufacturers/winders are pricing their pickups for. The more that Gibson increases their pup prices they may really find out how much of a fan base that they truly have. Some manufacturers don't wish to compete with cheaper prices than their competitors. They choose to price similarly and to close the competitive gap. However if their product is of a lesser quality, or has a lesser demand then it can backfire on them. Gibson forgets that they are going on name alone, as their so called "clones or replica" humbuckers from earlier eras "aren't all that and a bag of chips" not with the wide choices, variations, and options available to the consumer. I currently have (2) BB Pro and (2) 57' Classic humbuckers in boxes, as that is my impression of Gibson humbuckers. I surely wouldn't buy Gibson humbuckers individually but would have to be stuck with them when purchasing one of their guitars. Gibson needs to wise up when it comes to pups and offer more diversity of selection and choice.
ginormous
Understatmentologist
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
The most memorable years for Gibson, for their electric and their acoustic instruments, was when the main factory was in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
Those are the ones everybody gets all misty-eyed over: the big semi-hollow bodies, the original ES series. The P-90 guitars, the first-gen LPs.
As is the case in so many corporate decisions, there was a dollars & cents decision made. Gibson moved production to Nashville, and closed Parsons Ave in Kalamazoo.
They took the name, the body styles, the headstock shapes, the electronics, and anything and everything that is and can be identified as "Gibson" with them.
Legally, no one else can make a Gibson guitar but the Gibson company.
However... the factory workers in 'Zoo were left hanging. All those years making guitars the world loves, and now the company left them high and dry.
What to do?
"Let's make our own guitars! Everyone who loved the old stuff will know what our address is, and what it means. We don't have to claim any connection to 'the company'."
Therefore, Heritage Guitars was born.
Many of the same people, and the ones trained by them.
Great guitars. They're not "The big G", but they are made by some of the same hands who did the originals.
Seymour himself got Seth Lover, the guy who designed the original humbucker, to design a pickup with him.
Seth drew up a new set of plans, and Seymour even got some of the original pickup winding machinery.
Together, they came up with a distinctive pickup design.
It's great. It's something a lot of guitarists use and enjoy. By law, however, it can't be called a "Gibson pickup".
Will a set of SD Seth Lovers, in a Heritage guitar made in Kalamazoo, ever be mistaken for a Gibson?
Not to the eye, obviously.
Will someone who hears it on a recording know the difference? I haven't been able to yet. Can you?
Does name really matter, if the player is satisfied with the sound and feel?
There is a Catch 22 with the "history" discussion.
The most memorable years for Gibson, for their electric and their acoustic instruments, was when the main factory was in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
Those are the ones everybody gets all misty-eyed over: the big semi-hollow bodies, the original ES series. The P-90 guitars, the first-gen LPs.
As is the case in so many corporate decisions, there was a dollars & cents decision made. Gibson moved production to Nashville, and closed Parsons Ave in Kalamazoo.
They took the name, the body styles, the headstock shapes, the electronics, and anything and everything that is and can be identified as "Gibson" with them.
Legally, no one else can make a Gibson guitar but the Gibson company.
However... the factory workers in 'Zoo were left hanging. All those years making guitars the world loves, and now the company left them high and dry.
What to do?
"Let's make our own guitars! Everyone who loved the old stuff will know what our address is, and what it means. We don't have to claim any connection to 'the company'."
Therefore, Heritage Guitars was born.
Many of the same people, and the ones trained by them.
Great guitars. They're not "The big G", but they are made by some of the same hands who did the originals.
Seymour himself got Seth Lover, the guy who designed the original humbucker, to design a pickup with him.
Seth drew up a new set of plans, and Seymour even got some of the original pickup winding machinery.
Together, they came up with a distinctive pickup design.
It's great. It's something a lot of guitarists use and enjoy. By law, however, it can't be called a "Gibson pickup".
Will a set of SD Seth Lovers, in a Heritage guitar made in Kalamazoo, ever be mistaken for a Gibson?
Not to the eye, obviously.
Will someone who hears it on a recording know the difference? I haven't been able to yet. Can you?
Does name really matter, if the player is satisfied with the sound and feel?
Mr. B
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
Using that logic, it follows that they don't want to sell guitars either, since they are also usually overpriced for their quality.
Using that logic, it follows that they don't want to sell guitars either, since they are also usually overpriced for their quality.
stratguy23
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
Prices move according to market demand. Low demand, price drops. High demand, price rises.
Now, I'm not sure if guitar players are clamoring en masse for Gibson pickups as aftermarket replacements (which is the pricing I think we're talking about here). But there must be enough of them willing to pay current prices for current prices to hold.
The current Gibson regime does seem to have an irrational approach to market pricing (wild price hikes, etc.). Perhaps they are testing what the market will bear in terms of cost. Perhaps they are just pricing because the CEO said it must be so.
It seems Gibson targets the older-guy-with-cash-to-spare demographic more than ever now, what with wild price hikes and deletion of the SGJ/LPJ lines, which were probably as affordable as USA Gibsons will ever get this century. This may make sense in a larger perspective that includes Epiphone; maybe the lower end Gibsons were competing too much with higher end Epiphones.
Personally, I like Gibson pickups a lot - the 490R and the 498T (though not together), the 57 Classic/57 Classic+ set, the 3 non-Pro Burstbuckers, the stock P90s. I agree that they are overpriced if compared against, say, Duncans, purely in terms of quality. But if the new market is overpriced, the used one will be also, so Gibson pickups tend to be overpriced across the board.
This isn't really something to kvetch about, since there are so many competent brands that are better priced. Additionally, screaming deals do occasionally appear on the used market. Just set your price alerts on eBay and Reverb accordingly and you'll catch them.
Prices move according to market demand. Low demand, price drops. High demand, price rises.
Now, I'm not sure if guitar players are clamoring en masse for Gibson pickups as aftermarket replacements (which is the pricing I think we're talking about here). But there must be enough of them willing to pay current prices for current prices to hold.
The current Gibson regime does seem to have an irrational approach to market pricing (wild price hikes, etc.). Perhaps they are testing what the market will bear in terms of cost. Perhaps they are just pricing because the CEO said it must be so.
It seems Gibson targets the older-guy-with-cash-to-spare demographic more than ever now, what with wild price hikes and deletion of the SGJ/LPJ lines, which were probably as affordable as USA Gibsons will ever get this century. This may make sense in a larger perspective that includes Epiphone; maybe the lower end Gibsons were competing too much with higher end Epiphones.
Personally, I like Gibson pickups a lot - the 490R and the 498T (though not together), the 57 Classic/57 Classic+ set, the 3 non-Pro Burstbuckers, the stock P90s. I agree that they are overpriced if compared against, say, Duncans, purely in terms of quality. But if the new market is overpriced, the used one will be also, so Gibson pickups tend to be overpriced across the board.
This isn't really something to kvetch about, since there are so many competent brands that are better priced. Additionally, screaming deals do occasionally appear on the used market. Just set your price alerts on eBay and Reverb accordingly and you'll catch them.
Southbound Suarez
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
What gets me is the pricing of all their Reissue Series of guitars, how many musicians have that kind of money except the professionals? And then to play them out with the risk of having them stolen (yeah right). Gibson must believe that they're the modern version of D'Angelico or something along those lines.
What gets me is the pricing of all their Reissue Series of guitars, how many musicians have that kind of money except the professionals? And then to play them out with the risk of having them stolen (yeah right). Gibson must believe that they're the modern version of D'Angelico or something along those lines.
stratguy23
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
I think your reasoning is sound, and that in fact the high-priced reissues are generally *not* aimed at gigging musicians (of which there is a range, I realize). You don't want to gig a museum piece hard. The high-priced reissues are museum pieces and probably aimed at rich bedroom players.
The "average" gigging musician does have fairly affordable Gibson options, what with the Studio line, most SGs, and the vast used market.
Gibson puts out the reissues simply because people will buy them. We think such pricing is absurd, but we're not the target audience.
I think your reasoning is sound, and that in fact the high-priced reissues are generally *not* aimed at gigging musicians (of which there is a range, I realize). You don't want to gig a museum piece hard. The high-priced reissues are museum pieces and probably aimed at rich bedroom players.
The "average" gigging musician does have fairly affordable Gibson options, what with the Studio line, most SGs, and the vast used market.
Gibson puts out the reissues simply because people will buy them. We think such pricing is absurd, but we're not the target audience.
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
Just putting this out there to see if it gathers any support, although it seems completely out of character with the Gibson Company we know and love... "Price layering strategy"
I believe that, together with the "dentists" and similar price-insensitive snobs, one of the largest categories of buyers of Gibson pickups is... buyers of Epiphone guitars. Yep, I said it.
Now, if a Gibson pickup was just $50 (as they should be at the max IMO - I swapped the 57s in my Studio), then it would make way too much sense to buy an Epi and upgrade pups (the hideous headstock being the only remaining major difference).
Most of the questions (or raving reviews) I have seen about Gibson pups, involved Epi owners. And that is understandable: most of them actually wanted a Gibson and the main difference today is in the pups.
Call me a sarcastic bastard if you will (thank you) but I have a strong inkling this came into consideration at Gibson Inc.
Just putting this out there to see if it gathers any support, although it seems completely out of character with the Gibson Company we know and love... "Price layering strategy"
I believe that, together with the "dentists" and similar price-insensitive snobs, one of the largest categories of buyers of Gibson pickups is... buyers of Epiphone guitars. Yep, I said it.
Now, if a Gibson pickup was just $50 (as they should be at the max IMO - I swapped the 57s in my Studio), then it would make way too much sense to buy an Epi and upgrade pups (the hideous headstock being the only remaining major difference).
Most of the questions (or raving reviews) I have seen about Gibson pups, involved Epi owners. And that is understandable: most of them actually wanted a Gibson and the main difference today is in the pups.
Call me a sarcastic bastard if you will (thank you) but I have a strong inkling this came into consideration at Gibson Inc.
The Convert
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
I unashamedly identify with and agree with this. Now, I think it might be overstated that every Epi owner really wants a Gibson...for the same price sure, but my main Epi LP is (for me) a better sounding instrument than a Gibson 3x its price. I personally don't think any instrument that isn't hand made just for me is worth $2200+.
I'll also say that of my Epis, only 1 has Gibson aftermarket pups in it. It is a generalization that every Epi owner is a Gibson brand slave. Maybe some. To me they're just options at reaching the sound I want for the budget I have to spend.
I unashamedly identify with and agree with this. Now, I think it might be overstated that every Epi owner really wants a Gibson...for the same price sure, but my main Epi LP is (for me) a better sounding instrument than a Gibson 3x its price. I personally don't think any instrument that isn't hand made just for me is worth $2200+.
I'll also say that of my Epis, only 1 has Gibson aftermarket pups in it. It is a generalization that every Epi owner is a Gibson brand slave. Maybe some. To me they're just options at reaching the sound I want for the budget I have to spend.
The Convert
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
The popular use of the word "history" almost always means "mythology". Most people aren't interested in expanding understanding of the facts as they are finding ways of reinforcing the mythology they already believe. To beat the analogy further, getting that Les Paul and those PAFs is a kind of ritual in support of that mythology. It pays reverence to the idea we hold above reality, and then we put it in our hands and play it...often playing the songs of those who performed the rituals generations before us.
The popular use of the word "history" almost always means "mythology". Most people aren't interested in expanding understanding of the facts as they are finding ways of reinforcing the mythology they already believe. To beat the analogy further, getting that Les Paul and those PAFs is a kind of ritual in support of that mythology. It pays reverence to the idea we hold above reality, and then we put it in our hands and play it...often playing the songs of those who performed the rituals generations before us.
The Convert
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
"Prices move according to market demand. Low demand, price drops. High demand, price rises." This is sort of, sometimes true, but in reality kind of simplified. We see it in some commodities like gasoline or produce, but the production, sales cycle for products like guitars and guitar parts are so much more long-lived.
I think the reality is probably closer to the acceptance that a very large company that makes its living on other products can accept variation in profitability for small volume, low exchange value items. Maybe their target is 20% profit for pickups. If it's 21%, 16%, 11%, 19%, and 7% over five years, what then matters is how much of the business it represents. If selling pickups is 30% of the business, then just that 11% year is enough to panic, but I'd guess it's probably less than 5% of Gibson's gross (maybe shirts, etc. bring in more revenue!), meaning it's more about spreading the brand, providing parts for exclusive instruments, and competing more broadly in the guitars & guitar accessory and parts markets, than it is about competing in the pickup market.
Just a thought.
"Prices move according to market demand. Low demand, price drops. High demand, price rises." This is sort of, sometimes true, but in reality kind of simplified. We see it in some commodities like gasoline or produce, but the production, sales cycle for products like guitars and guitar parts are so much more long-lived.
I think the reality is probably closer to the acceptance that a very large company that makes its living on other products can accept variation in profitability for small volume, low exchange value items. Maybe their target is 20% profit for pickups. If it's 21%, 16%, 11%, 19%, and 7% over five years, what then matters is how much of the business it represents. If selling pickups is 30% of the business, then just that 11% year is enough to panic, but I'd guess it's probably less than 5% of Gibson's gross (maybe shirts, etc. bring in more revenue!), meaning it's more about spreading the brand, providing parts for exclusive instruments, and competing more broadly in the guitars & guitar accessory and parts markets, than it is about competing in the pickup market.
Just a thought.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
I doubt the average Epi owner is going to spend $300-$350 on a set of Gibson aftermarket PU's, when that's close to what they spent for the guitar. I think a good part of the Duncan & DiMarzio market is owners of mid-price imports, as they can buy a pair of high quality PU's for what one Gibson costs. If they want to drop $700-$800, they can buy a low end Gibson for that, with stock Gibson PU's in it.
The aftermarket PU segment is probably a very small part of Gibson's sales, and likely to get little attention from them.
I doubt the average Epi owner is going to spend $300-$350 on a set of Gibson aftermarket PU's, when that's close to what they spent for the guitar. I think a good part of the Duncan & DiMarzio market is owners of mid-price imports, as they can buy a pair of high quality PU's for what one Gibson costs. If they want to drop $700-$800, they can buy a low end Gibson for that, with stock Gibson PU's in it.
The aftermarket PU segment is probably a very small part of Gibson's sales, and likely to get little attention from them.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
But they also produce the higher end guitars in small quantities, to ensure supply doesn't exceed demand.
But they also produce the higher end guitars in small quantities, to ensure supply doesn't exceed demand.
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
I'll beat this horse with another couple thoughts that I don't think were mentioned. (haven't read everything, so if I repeat, I apologize.) I eluded to it in my orig post, but I didn't specifically say this.. People wonder why they make pickups? Well, its been said to put in the guitars. They offer different ones aftermarket too because I figure some people buy gibsons for investment, collectability and yes, even to play.. Some folks may not like the stock pickups, but may prefer, or feel they need to use "genuine replacement parts" (just like with cars) to keep resale, or just to make themselves feel better... So, they buy specifically that brand. Some people also drink the koolaid and believe there is none better and they are worth the investment.
They make pups for those folks and, of course to make money. keep the sheep in the flock..
I'll beat this horse with another couple thoughts that I don't think were mentioned. (haven't read everything, so if I repeat, I apologize.) I eluded to it in my orig post, but I didn't specifically say this.. People wonder why they make pickups? Well, its been said to put in the guitars. They offer different ones aftermarket too because I figure some people buy gibsons for investment, collectability and yes, even to play.. Some folks may not like the stock pickups, but may prefer, or feel they need to use "genuine replacement parts" (just like with cars) to keep resale, or just to make themselves feel better... So, they buy specifically that brand. Some people also drink the koolaid and believe there is none better and they are worth the investment.
They make pups for those folks and, of course to make money. keep the sheep in the flock..
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MkIII Renegade
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
The answer of course is because people keep buying them.
The answer of course is because people keep buying them.
stratguy23
New member
Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?
There may be something to The Convert's point, that b/c pickups aren't Gibson's core business, they aren't particularly fussed with being competitive price-wise, and that they view pickups as brand awareness/spare change.
Similar in this respect are PRS - now *those* aftermarket pickups are overpriced - and Schecter, though the latter's prices has me scratching my head since I get the impression Schecter actually wants to be competitive in the aftermarket pickup space. Since pickups is Seymour Duncan's core business, SD has to be competitive price-wise.
Personally I do view Gibson pickups as legit aftermarket replacements; in fact, I've used more Gibson pickups in non-Gibson guitars than actual Gibsons (in which I'm inclined to put anything but Gibson pickups, go figure). I look for them used, particularly in sets, which is where the best deals often are. The risk of depreciation for pickups virtually disappears if you buy used.
There may be something to The Convert's point, that b/c pickups aren't Gibson's core business, they aren't particularly fussed with being competitive price-wise, and that they view pickups as brand awareness/spare change.
Similar in this respect are PRS - now *those* aftermarket pickups are overpriced - and Schecter, though the latter's prices has me scratching my head since I get the impression Schecter actually wants to be competitive in the aftermarket pickup space. Since pickups is Seymour Duncan's core business, SD has to be competitive price-wise.
Personally I do view Gibson pickups as legit aftermarket replacements; in fact, I've used more Gibson pickups in non-Gibson guitars than actual Gibsons (in which I'm inclined to put anything but Gibson pickups, go figure). I look for them used, particularly in sets, which is where the best deals often are. The risk of depreciation for pickups virtually disappears if you buy used.
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