JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
I wonder if people who play sparkly clean with Fender Twins look at noise gates and call them solutions in search of a problem.
Why Does This Not Feel Right?
- Thread starter Lucius Paisley
- Start date
NegativeEase
New member
While the Evertune system seems like a cool idea, the website makes hyperbolic claims that from a physics standpoint cannot be true over time in a mechanical system -so I sort of get a greasy feeling with his confidence of claims of staying in tune "pretty much indefinitely" and then regresses to "a long long time" .... just the salesmanship BS makes me want to avoid the product instead of buy it.
Just straight talk is all that is required. It's cool, and probably solve some problems for some players.
Just straight talk is all that is required. It's cool, and probably solve some problems for some players.
The problem I have with the Evertune system is that afaict, the tuning stability is achieved at the expense of intonation.
The way it stays in tune is that it varies the length of the string. While the notes will always be "in tune", the string length varies depending on where the balancing mechanism is set.
So while the strings don't go out of tune, the intonation will. I think if you keep the counterbalance mechanism near where the intonation was set, it will generally sound OK-ish. But as it drifts from that, as less tension (play) is introduced (say if the tuner moves), then the intonation will drift also.
No one has explained to me how a system that varies string length can keep accurate intonation. For those playing metal on lower frets, it may not matter.
nexion218
New member
I feel like that the PR crap is unavoidable...
Straight talk would sell (or not) products to guys with a certain level of knowledge and experience. But my guess is that the majority of the sales go to kids falling for that sugarcoated double-talk. I'm starting to learn to ignore it. Just rush through it to get an idea what it promises than I look for forums or ask on here to look for actual hands on reviews from users. Though user reviews can be the other end of the spectrum: guys not knowing how to use stuff or not having realistic expectations result in totally unwarranted bashing. That was the case with the ET for me: company saying it's the best thing since the invention of sliced bread, than some guy stated on a message board that it is a faulty design, which cannot be played in tune, let alone intonated properly (WTF???), so I decided to try one. Turned out to be a keeper. No my fave, but makes sense in my "collection", as I try to have guitars that are different and not just in the hue of the sunburst. :9:
nexion218
New member
Just went through all the frets with a tuner.
At first it seems that fretting the note produces such a minuscule change in length, that I cannot even se the saddle move. Of course it does, its just not visible with naked eyes. Of course the change in length is more pronounced when you try to bend a major third, but that is an unrealistic situation: you don't set the thing up to ignore bends and then do the bends anyways. 
I wanted to edit the post, but the site wouldn't let mne do so, so I had to re-enter everything and while typing the following came to mind:
On a "normal" guitar, you are sligtly stretching the string with each fretting move as the saddle is fixed. With this one, the saddle actually follows the string and this might be how it keeps the intonation in place. At least this is how I can imagine it.
(Disclaimer: I am not a fanboy, just in a great mood and enjoying this conversation)
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Block a Floyd and that’s ridiculously rock solid.
A non-blocked, well setup Floyd is also ridiculously solid. If that wasn't your experience, then there was something wrong with the setup.
Just went through all the frets with a tuner.
I wanted to edit the post, but the site wouldn't let mne do so, so I had to re-enter everything and while typing the following came to mind:
On a "normal" guitar, you are sligtly stretching the string with each fretting move as the saddle is fixed. With this one, the saddle actually follows the string and this might be how it keeps the intonation in place. At least this is how I can imagine it.
(Disclaimer: I am not a fanboy, just in a great mood and enjoying this conversation)
Try this test.
Keep releasing the tuner til the point where it can no longer stay in tune (at the end of the Evertune's range.) While you are doing this, see if you can detect a change in string length. Use a strobe tuner to check intonation at 24th fret.
Now do the opposite, crank the tuner until it is at the opposite end of the Evertune's range. Check the intonation again at the 24th fret.
I think it would be a miracle if the 24th fret is in tune at both ends of the adjustment range, knowing what I do about the ET. I think in the middle it will generally be correct, but the farther from the midpoint, the more out of tune it will be up the neck.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Double stops, potential return to zero issues due to wear or setup, palm muting, etc. are things that could be an issue with a floating floyd. Blocked and locked would be literally rock solid.
nexion218
New member
I see where you're going with this and I agree. However you can adjust the intonation with a screw to match the actual position you set the saddle to in the floating range. So this is where the PRBS comes in NegE mentioned. You set it up once and if you don't mess with it it does what it promises. They don't tell you that there are certain instances where you will indeed need to adjust the setup. Of course if you alter the position of the saddle with the tuning peg, you would have to adjust the intonation, you are perfectly right about that. No test needed, your assessment is spot on. But twisting around the tuning peg from one end of the floating range to the other is again not something anyone would realistically do when playing just to prove that you can move the saddle enough to achieve bad intonation on the evertune...
I see where you're going with this and I agree. However you can adjust the intonation with a screw to match the actual position you set the saddle to in the floating range. So this is where the PRBS comes in NegE mentioned. You set it up once and if you don't mess with it it does what it promises. They don't tell you that there are certain instances where you will indeed need to adjust the setup. Of course if you alter the position of the saddle with the tuning peg, you would have to adjust the intonation, you are perfectly right about that. No test needed, your assessment is spot on. But twisting around the tuning peg from one end of the floating range to the other is again not something anyone would realistically do when playing just to prove that you can move the saddle enough to achieve bad intonation on the evertune...
But the point.. what everyone knows and isn't willing to say...
Is that because the nut is not locked, over normal use, bending, string stretching, the saddle position will drift away and intonation will be a moving target.
To the degree that a normal guitar needs to be "tuned up", that is the amount that the intonation will drift.
I'm not saying its a bad thing, BUT what I can't evaluate (because I don't own one) is how bad the effect on intonation will be. Play a few songs with some bends, the strings are still in tune for chords, but up high on the neck, the guitar's intonation will change. It will be a moving target.
Normally we overcome the inaccuracy of the neck by different tuning strategies, but if the guitars intonation is changing while playing, its hard to say the effect that will have (on me.) I can hear intonation and I think that players learn the intricacies of a neck and a tuning, for vibrato, etc. If that all changes after a few bends, it would be rather disorienting, imo.
What is worse, when a guitar is out of tune, you check it with a tuner and when in tune, the intonation is guaranteed to be where you set it. With an ET guitar, what do you do? Periodically run a strobe tuner to make sure its in tune up the neck? Do you change the intonation screw or keep twisting the tuner til it's back in range? Unknown. With a normal guitar, when things don't sound right, you adjust the tuner. Sometimes you might want a slightly differnt tuning depending on where/what youre playing.
I can't think of any pro lead guitar players, shredders/fusion, who use an Evertune. I suspect for the reasons above.
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Yep. I've done that before, and had a guitar that would only need to be tuned once between string changes. Which leads me to question how necessary some other string tuning system really is . . .
nexion218
New member
I'll try to find time to do the test for ya.
I don't really get your concern about the nut though... A properly cut nut will not bind and will not cause any of your issues. Also, the floating range is sooo wide (4-5 full turns of the ped in each direction) that no binding nut will ever get it out of that range. And no strobe is needed. I literally havent tuned the thing in a year (I rotate my guitars, but each one gets around 4 hours of play each week).Changing tuning on the fly can be an issue, I agree but it is an issue with Floyds too. This is why I said that not having realistic expectations can cause unwanted aversion. I believe Ola Englund (not entirely legit, he's affiliated with the ET company but whatever) has a video to do alternate tunings on the fly, so some are doable.
For lead players with ET, Devin Townsend comes to mind.
nexion218
New member
Sorry for the double post, still cant aóedit my posts)
There's something you keep ignoring though: when set to ignore bends, why would you bend? When deck out to be able to bend, the saddle is not moving, so none of the problems exist you are concerned about. You have just as many problems as with a normal guitar. Also, when decked out, your tuning pegs will "work" again as tuners...
There's something you keep ignoring though: when set to ignore bends, why would you bend? When deck out to be able to bend, the saddle is not moving, so none of the problems exist you are concerned about. You have just as many problems as with a normal guitar. Also, when decked out, your tuning pegs will "work" again as tuners...
I don't care about the ET, really. The question was about the marketing cool aid. I think they do not talk about the underlying truth, which is that they are keeping it in tune by changing string length, which will impact intonation.
All my guitars have Floyds and stay in tune perfectly so I don't have any interest. If I was chugging metal rhythm all the time and recording, I would get an Evertune.
nexion218
New member
OK, let's leave it at that. I stopped enjoying this conversation 2-3 posts ago anyways...
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Has anyone who is pointing out problems with the Evertune used one? I ask because most of the people who use them seem to really love them.
I think Peavey's AutoTune guitar sort of did the same thing electronically rather than mechanically: it kept everything in tune all the time. It did this no matter how out of tune the strings got- they could be out quite a bit, but through the amp, it was perfectly in tune.
I never used ether the ET or the Peavey. But I don't have the issues others have when seeking a solution like these.
I never used ether the ET or the Peavey. But I don't have the issues others have when seeking a solution like these.
nexion218
New member
It seems to me that the people who have intonation and /or tuning issues with it are the ones who never really used one....
nexion218
New member
Jeez, I hate myself for not being able to let go of things...
Just two quick shower thoughts:
- when you bend on a Floyd, the saddle (actually the whole bridge) tilts forward, yet noone bats an eye. "Yeah but it returns to the original position." Except when it doesn't, because it's poorly setup or maintained. Just like the ET, or any other bridge for that matter - when you set the intonation, you fret the 12th and 24th in the process and hit some corresponding harmonics of the in tune open string, at least I do. The length of the string is set so that when the 12th and 24th frets are played the notes are in perfect tune. That means that the saddle (et) or bridge (fr) tilting is already accounted for in the setup.
Now off to start my weekend...
Just two quick shower thoughts:
- when you bend on a Floyd, the saddle (actually the whole bridge) tilts forward, yet noone bats an eye. "Yeah but it returns to the original position." Except when it doesn't, because it's poorly setup or maintained. Just like the ET, or any other bridge for that matter - when you set the intonation, you fret the 12th and 24th in the process and hit some corresponding harmonics of the in tune open string, at least I do. The length of the string is set so that when the 12th and 24th frets are played the notes are in perfect tune. That means that the saddle (et) or bridge (fr) tilting is already accounted for in the setup.
Now off to start my weekend...
