Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

TheArchitect said:
1) Would it be possible to define a little better what is and is not possible as a shop floor custom product?
Basically, a Shop Floor Custom is something that can be made on the regular production floor, but there is no defined part number for that particular permutation of the pickup. We have, literally, thousands of part numbers, but not for everything. For example, if you want a reverse-zebra TB-4 with no logo: that would be a shop floor custom. Basically, they are the types of things that our production workers could make by assembling different types of stock pickup parts.

If you have a question about what could be a shop floor custom or not, just use the Contact Form and your question will be answered, usually within 24 hours.

TheArchitect said:
2) Would a little more detail on the custom shop products be possible?
Obviously, you've seen the Custom Shop Page. If you have specific questions about a custom shop model, I would suggest you e-mail Derek Duncan. Derek is Cathy and Seymour's son who just started working alongside his dad in the Custom Shop. He should be able to answer any specific questions about custom shop pickups.

In the meantime, if I can get more detail on custom shop pickups from Seymour, I'll make sure to post them.
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

THanks for being frank Evan. Wow 3 guys, OK that establishes a certain point of view. BTW our company has over 100 in R&D for just one product line and we're in the same boat, having to say "yeah that's a good idea, but..."

Well, Evan, maybe next year your marketing guys can look at the 10K-12K ohm bigger-than-vintage area and see if you can come up with a PAF-Pro/FRED/Norton/BBQ-killer slot in the lineup. Meanwhile I may buy that used PATB3 although I've already bought 5 pickups for this project....ugly as it may be the PA3b looks like it might do the trick....I'll do a head-to-head.

If the PATB3 is less icey than the Screamin Demon maybe you can shortcut the R&D and do a slug&pole version as the PAFPro killer.

The Yowling *****? <--that word is PERFECTLY LEGAL for 'cat'!
Kidding...
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

holes... in order to fill holes there has to be huge demand, to justfy minium ordering of parts & packaging and advertizing that will be required...

I worked at Lace Music and every week I got another new guy calling asking for a 7 string version of one of the 3 designs Lace owns.

There was simply no way to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on a product
that would sale 10- 20 units a year.

inorder to have parts made that don't exsist, you have to make Dies and molds, then to get the job shops to produce the parts you need to meet their minium.. most require 10,000 unit/ piece minium orders, some parts are .$0.25 some are a dollar or two.. times that stuff by 10,000 and add packaging who also have big miniums.. and then get in the marketing wheels.. and you'll sink your ship unless you have gaurenteed winners with huge sales potentials...

all there is left is Custom Shops or interrupting production to make specialties-- I did that and it can really be costly shutting down production workers machines to make a quick one off-- we all know about MURPHYS LAW RIGHT? -- it catches up with you and you get stuck wasting company time and loosing money fast and wasting your time to boot-- its really risky bussiness doing specialties or Custom stuff-- its costly and not generally productive or cost effective... so Custom Shop rates need to be ultra high to ballance out these hardships that threaten to sink operations if there allowed to get out of hand!

BTW.. I'm very PROUD OF DEREK DUNCAN derekd@seymourduncan.com Thats really sweet-- him working right along Seymour in the Custom Shop! I can't wait to meet him and make friends!

Rev. Donzo
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, However I must agree with Evan. Sure, I would love to see more pickups coming out to fill "holes" however I would prefer for everyone at seymour duncan to take their time and produce the best product possible.

Would hastily finished pickups suit my needs? perhaps, but the thing I count on with SD is to give me what I'm looking for in my sound when I purchace a pickup. Additionally, with the help of everyone on this forum I can be even more assured to be getting exactly what I want. If somthing more suited to my needs comes out in a few years, I can always change the pickups out.

As a bass player, I sometimes feel as if SD isn't producing enough bass pickups for me to have a good range of tones for any bass I may have. Simply compare the number of production basslines pups to production guitar pups. However, when i see things; in the words of evan "getting out the door" such as passive soapbars I get excited. I remember when the Quarter Pounds were released, and for me, that was a huge deal... I bought some, and I still have those pups in a bass.

For me, that has helped give me an idea as to just how much R&D goes into each pickup. I've taken pickups apart to see how they work, swap magnets, etc. and I have to admidt, SD's quality is top notch.

I'm not 100% sure if this is true... perhaps Evan could validate it? Seymour Duncan, per year spends less money on marketing that pretty much every other pickup company, however they're the #1 aftermarket pickup manufacturer. If that's true, then I can see very easily why. Seymour Duncan makes great pickups.

Addtionally, things that i'd like to see:
Strat/tele sized P90's
More Bass Stuff.
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Addtionally, things that i'd like to see:
Strat/tele sized P90's

what makes a P=90 sound like it does is in part to the coil shape and wide spead. in which the two magnets are right under that wide thinly spread coil.

wraping the same 42 Gauge wire on a Strat or tele up to 8k will not equal P-90 sound.. putting the double bar / pole piece system magnets does not do that eaither.

winding a Strat or Tele to 12=14 k will not do it eaither..

and Fralin's and Lawrences so called P-90's in a Strat Tele size -- really are nothing more then Muddyier overwound singles.
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

i (am pretty sure that i) met derek for a few moments at UGD (although i am sure i was utterly forgettable to him) ... (if it was in fact Derek, and not his brother, that i met) he seemed like a great guy with a laid back demeanor ... i wish him the best of luck ... i cant imagine a cooler gig than being able to study at the side of SD and MJ in that little custom shop ... i have every reason to believe that this would be the start of another generation of guaranteed availability of great tone !

t4d
 
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Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Duncan & Son Custom Shop. Will wind custom guitar pickups.

Derek02.jpg
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

NOW WE SEE SEYMOUR'S SECRET TONE WEAPON!

Looks like a freaking potato peeler Derek is weilding! What's he doing to that Strat?
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

idsnowdog said:
I don't think the perfect pickup for playing Lamb Of God is going to come from tweaking a 59.

You do know Lamb of God use duncans yes????????

# Will Adler / Lamb of God
Pickup Models : SH-8b, LW-HMET

# Mark Morton / Lamb of God
Pickup Models : SH-TI1b, LW-HMET, SH-8b, SH-13, SH-1b, SH-2n
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

I hadn't thought about it that much, but Seymour has put out a lot of new stuff lately. But I wasn't one of those saying otherwise. I tried out that Mama Bear acoustic guitar simulator at UGD and it is just SCARY. It's not just one setting either -- they've got a model for every imaginable kind of guitar, including resonators if I recall correctly.

However, the retooling and minimum order for specialized parts, etc., isn't an issue for mid-output/strong-vintage pickups because you don't need any specialized parts. The only difference is the wind.

Therefore the only question is whether there's a big enough market for them.

Ultimately it doesn't matter to me if Duncan doesn't want to make them because I know a guy in Canada who will make anything you want, and NOT anywhere near Custom Shop or boutique maker prices. Far from it.
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

nice pic!, evan

derek looks quite alot like some of those early pic's of seymour!

just add long hair!
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Forbes said:
You do know Lamb of God use duncans yes????????

# Will Adler / Lamb of God
Pickup Models : SH-8b, LW-HMET

# Mark Morton / Lamb of God
Pickup Models : SH-TI1b, LW-HMET, SH-8b, SH-13, SH-1b, SH-2n

something wrong here!
i met these two guys and both use a JB most of the time:smack:
I asked them why and they said cause the framus guitars came stock that way and sounded more than good enough stock with the JB:beerchug:
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Evan Skopp said:
Basically, a Shop Floor Custom is something that can be made on the regular production floor, but there is no defined part number for that particular permutation of the pickup. We have, literally, thousands of part numbers, but not for everything. For example, if you want a reverse-zebra TB-4 with no logo: that would be a shop floor custom. Basically, they are the types of things that our production workers could make by assembling different types of stock pickup parts.

I was told before that they are wound on the custom shop machine when the order comes in?
all i know is that i have heard two shop floor customs and BOTH sounded like the older duncans wound by MJ
I have 4 80's DDJ's and a newer TB-6 production model and a black/red shop floor custom TB-6 that i just got and
the the regular TB -6 does not sound as warm as the shop floor one?
another guy here bought a shop floor custom TB-5 and he agreed with me that it sounded better than a prodution run TB-5?

whats the dope here?
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Dave Z said:
Hey Fab, I will be trying a Dimarzio FRED (have one in my testbed guitar & like it) but there is a screamin demon trembucker on ebay who knows, if this guitar ends up being dark I might give that a go for a head-on comparison of the 10k superPAFs. Meanwhile the Fspacing inthe nek question seems to be addressed....it'll be a jazz in the neck, had one before in my test axe & liked it a lot. But if I get a deal on a pafpro I'll give them a head-to-head comparison as well.
I have a Screamin' Demon Trembucker and it measures at about 11.1k ohms! It was somewhat bright even still, but I switched to a .047mf tone cap from a .022mf cap and that helped some. I tried the magnet swap to an A2 from an A5 and it did thicken the mids a bit and rolled off some highs, but was not muddy at all. I like it with either magnet, but I enjoy the added presence with the A5 magnet. In my opinion, it's much easier to remove some of the brightness from the tone than to add it when it's not there. :)
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Leather Rebel said:
I have a Screamin' Demon Trembucker and it measures at about 11.1k ohms! It was somewhat bright even still, but I switched to a .047mf tone cap from a .022mf cap and that helped some. I tried the magnet swap to an A2 from an A5 and it did thicken the mids a bit and rolled off some highs, but was not muddy at all. I like it with either magnet, but I enjoy the added presence with the A5 magnet. In my opinion, it's much easier to remove some of the brightness from the tone than to add it when it's not there. :)

I tryed swapping to the A2 and an A3 magnet in my Scremon Demon also and I too went back to the A5....The fix for mine in my own strat was to use a 250K pot and changed all of the hex screws over to standard nickel screws...It's perfect now! The neck and middle pickups are APS 2s...

SD2.jpg
 
Re: Why I'm buying Dimarzios this time

Hey Leather - I did play with my tone ctrl with the demon and I figured the same hting - easy to cut....but the guitar tone ctrl is a fairly blunt weapon. I would have had to play with cap values to just take a little off the top & then I would not be able to dial it down on other freqs...better to get a PU which you pretty much like at all settings - one of which is the FRED. Testing a few others including the PATB3
 
Marketing isn't what you think it is

Marketing isn't what you think it is

Folks-
It's fun to be a user, it's fun to experiment, and as members of this forum, I guarantee that you are providing input that SD values.

But as a technology marketing professional (including a spell as marketing director for a DAW manufacturer), I can speak to some points that Evan probably can't...even considering his very candid input.

You are familiar with the place (channels), price, and promotion aspects of the marketing mix from marketing 101 and you run into them every day in retail/CPG land. These are the visable aspects of marketing, and most assume this is what we do most of the time.

In reality, we live and die for an a wicked master known as the business plan and it's evil twin sister the marketing requirements doc (MRD)-

So how do the cutting edge products of the future make it into these documents so that executives will fund R&D and so that R&D doesn't just build whatever it feels like?

If you think we sit around and brainstorm, you've got the wrong half of marketing- My brethren in advertising do this all of the time, but you don't fund the product this way.

Instead we do research..lots and lots, and lots of research- The mantra we repeat is "Ideas are nice, but everybody's got one" and what we do is parse through all the sources of info to build a business case that has a greater chance of success than anything else on the docket- and to craft an MRD that gets the best bang for the investment. We hate to think of this from the artist POV, but successful businesses have to be good at making money. Or if they are really really good, and they can stay very, very small boutiques.

So where do we get this input? I spend most of my time with industry analysts who work with every client imaginable every day. We sponsor studies, we read reports, and we use focus groups for reality checks. We get feedback from a whole branch of analytics known as CRM (customer relationship management), we run algorithms to mine data to find relationship that no one ever guessed existed, and tech support sends us a report every week.

But, here's the part you aren't going to like... most of the time we do not build the products our power users want the most. After all, as early adopters they represent one of the smallest segments of the product lifecycle, and their behavior doesn't really predic the mainstream. And the money is in the early and late mainstream phases-

So think about it, are the things that YOU want really the things that will sell the most pups in the long run? You are the cutting edge, you are the early adopters..we can talk about digital guitars or whatever, but Evan and company have to be careful to consider us as just one of many sources of info.

Sorry about the diatribe, but wanted to point out you will probably get more out of the forum if you concentrate on learning the things that interest you and letting SD marketing do what it does best:)
 
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