Why is there no underwound JB?
- Thread starter Reee
- Start date
i want a 15k, not a 12k JB!!
SirJackdeFuzz II
New member
* I * would love to hear an 8.5 - 8.7k JB.
freefrog
Well-known member
Hello,
I certainly respect your opinion and your preferences.
Now, in my humble experience of dude who has tested / modified / built pickups himself, 15k for a bridge pickup means... absolutely nothing.
What counts are other factors like the inductance. That's a big part of what makes the JB so mid centric... and it explains its output too.
But inductance is not always proportional to DCR...
Take a Bill Lawrence L500XL: it has an inductance above 9H at only 14k (I've even here an example exhibiting 9.4H @ 14k while the last JB that I've tested measured 7.8H @ 16.4k). Take a DiMarzio DP161: it has a DCR of 17.5k and an inductance almost TWICE LOWER than a L500XL...
Play them if you want to hear the difference: it goes from boosted mids with the BL to scooped mids with the DM.
And I'm not even mentioning the influence of stray capacitance + resistive load on any passive pickup.
If you want a JB with less output and more clarity (without modifying it directly), order a high inductance mini audio transformer, wire it in series with a resistor (or better: a trim pot) and wire the whole in parallel with a standard JB. It will make it clearer for a few bucks, EXACTLY as if you had "dewound" a JB.
EDIT - and if the sound becomes too thin/bright, the only thing to add is a capacitor to ground in parallel with the pickup, to shift the resonant frequency back to its initial place: it would give the original voicing of a JB + a lower output.
FWIW (the price of a cheap transformer + an even cheaper capacitor of a few hundreds picofarads).
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The way to get this, absolutely, is to tell MJ that you want a lower output JB, and don't worry about specs. She will build it, and search is over. Get back to playing.
Lewguitar
New member
If this is so important to you why not buy a new JB and unwind a few hundred turns of wire on each coil and put it back together?
If it's still too strong for you after that do it again until you get the sound you want.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Ok - let me work with you:
Do you want a different RESONANT PEAK - or Lower Output?
They are NOT the same thing necessarily....
beaubrummels
Well-known member
This is what 7-8 people on here have been trying to tell you. You said you are going by the sound not specs yet you’ve insisted you have to have 15k of 43awg, which are just specs. The way you’re going about it will not get the sound. If your theory were true, my 14.74k 43awg Custom 5 would sound just like a lower output JB. But doesn’t sound anything like a JB at all.
You think 15k of 43awg will get you a lower output JB sound, but it won’t. Multiple factors that make that sound are changing using less wire. Less wire is not just turning the volume down, it’s changing it into a different pickup.
This is why you would have to tell an experienced winder what sound you want and output level and they’ll know what specific adjustments to make to get that result; and it may not have any of the specs you might have expected but will get the sound and output level.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
But it does not equal a predictable sound based on that metric. For example, because of the even eq, my A4 59 neck sounds louder than my A5 59 neck but on paper it should not, if DCR alone indicated output, because they have the same DCR.
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Right. I still don't think it's presumptuous to ask for a 15k JB or a JB wound to capacity with 43 gauge. The customer is entitled to ask for whatever they want. The results would be somewhat predictable, assuming the custom shop did what was asked for. I don't think it would be possible to keep the wind recipe the same and put less wire on the bobbins but have output and compression go up.
Sure, a customer can ask for what they want. But to get the most out of a Custom Shop order, I think the best way is to describe what sound you want and let them do the calculations. They can probably think of many ways to get there, too, and in the end, you will be happier.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Exactly.
While there is a moderate to strong relationship between the two, it is by no means a rule. There are definitely quite a lot of very obvious exceptions.
The non-adherence to DCR vs Output is very well known by anyone who has been here and paying attention in any way at all, or has actually played enough pickups.
The wire, the winds, the type of wind, the magnet...it all interacts in complex ways to create what you hear.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
What I just said - just like 'How do I get the VH tone?"
I have seen/heard it done spot on a dozen different ways. Depending on the route and your situation, one or the other may be better/easier/more possible for you. I would Defer to MJ on these matters explicitly.
As I said - if you can do it better, get a winding machine and do it, or apply for a job at SD, DMZ, etc....
a 15k jb, same everything but less turns, is fairly predictable. anything with #43 wire isnt a jb. even if you used the same wind pattern, the wire will lay differently and the coil geometry will be different.
ItsaBass
New member
I think the best place to start here is to put a weaker magnet in a stock JB. Keeps everything the same except the magnetic strength. Similar e.q. – lower output.
Quickest way to do this without buying anything is to remove the stock A5 and give it a pass over a stronger, opposing magnet – e.g. a ceramic magnet. Try it out. Repeat as many times as is necessary.
IME, removing windings alters the e.q. of a pickup more so than does using a different magnet. In particular with high output pickups like the JB, I have been dismayed with how little I was able to decongest the low-middy e.q. by switching to weaker magnets. It did, however, lower the sensitivity/output a notable amount.
Quickest way to do this without buying anything is to remove the stock A5 and give it a pass over a stronger, opposing magnet – e.g. a ceramic magnet. Try it out. Repeat as many times as is necessary.
IME, removing windings alters the e.q. of a pickup more so than does using a different magnet. In particular with high output pickups like the JB, I have been dismayed with how little I was able to decongest the low-middy e.q. by switching to weaker magnets. It did, however, lower the sensitivity/output a notable amount.
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Maybe the custom shop just sux.
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