Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

[King IzzO)))]

Uncle Jerry sent me a an 80's Super D he broke in a drunken rage and ended up killing a coil on. Firebirdguy had a 70's Super D that had a dead coil so I got that and put the two good coils together and potted it, because no way I can deal with an unpotted pickup (sorry unpotted DMZ fanboys). It's really awesome, it's been a while since I had a SD, I forgot how great they are. Here's pics:

So anyway, I've got a broken rio grande punchbox (****tiest construction methods I have ever seen, even worse than Epiphone pickups) that I can unwind easily enough. The punchbox is 13K of 44 awg. I can for sure unwind it with no issues, the wax rio uses is weird and not sticky at all, wire just comes right off. I've got that and these two empty vintage super D coils (Jerry's broken coil is now repaired and cleaned out).

Question is, how much of a pain in the ass is it going to be to wind from the rio coil directly to a DMZ coil, by hand? I mean, how many turns is that ****, being 44? I'm patient and can be careful, but I have never actually tried winding an entire coil before and this might be more frustrating than it's worth, so I'm asking. I don't have a winder, maybe I should make one? I'm hella just crazy scatterwinding if I do it, and I'd be recycling something that pissed me off into something useful, I'm just wondering if it's even worth the time and effort. Seriously, any tips are appreciated.

 

[Pilatvs]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Do it! Yes it will take 10 times longer than you expect. But then you get to be the voice of reason when future SDUGees try to attempt it. Tip of the spear! Get in there and tell us what you find.
Or turn your bobbins and wire into hippie jewelry.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Man that's a lot of work but your going to have a truly HAND WOUND pickup! If you got the patience I'd go for it!!!! ^^^^^^^^He's right, it's going to take 10x longer than you think but as long as you take your time it could be a badass pup! You'll have complete control over the winding the entire time so you should get out of it whatever you put in the only thing I'd worry about is keeping the tensile strength on the wire consistent the whole time??? Good luck dude!!! If you do take the time to do this your a better man than me!!!!

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

13K of 44? Doesn't sound like a very full bobbin or it's wrapped around a thick core.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

how much of a pain in the ass is it going to be to wind from the rio coil directly to a DMZ coil, by hand?

If you'rea glutton for punishment, go for it.

I have never actually tried winding an entire coil before and this might be more frustrating than it's worth,

That's the most likely scenario.

I'd be recycling something that pissed me off into...

... something that most likely will piss you off even more. FWIW, that coil is most likely is 7,000 turns of AWG#43 wire.

HTH,

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

If you want to recycle it, couldn't you find a winder to send it to?

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

I would think it would be possible to setup some kinda automation that would make this much easier. Use a hand drill with a low setting to spin your empty DMZ coil and knock one of the screws/slugs out of the other coil up so that it can spin freely on a thin nail hammered into a board and have at 'er.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

I think I figured out a way to do it without being super tedious. Zhang hand winds 43 awg pickups, I think I can do this. That is a good idea though Steve, I may end up trying that if my idea doesn't pan out.

Pepe, the punchbox sounded fine, what pissed me off is that it was broken through very silly circumstances and basically could not be repaired due to stupid design, on a $150 pickup. You might be right about the wire gauge. but it sounded like a 44 pickup to me, and the bobbins aren't very full looking. They are shallow and taller than typical humbucker bobbins, so, I dunno. I'd actually be happier if it were 43, because that means less turns I have to contend with.

Sure, I could pay to have it rewound, but I wouldn't learn anything that way and I'd still have these rio grande bobbins in a parts box looking me sideways.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

You mean re-use wire that was already wound onto a different bobbin? Not a good idea. It has already been wound under tension so it has been pulled (stretched) around every turn. If it's 44 it's already thin. I predict several breaks along the way. I want to help you but it's not looking good. It's not about the fact that you'll be attempting to do it by hand, it's the end result even if it DID work without breaking that is the problem.

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Glad you got it together! I won't say not to do it but I will say that I was going to do it all by hand also with my first set of strat pups. It did not turn out well. I got about 2500 turns in a broke the wire, stripped the wire off the bobbin, tried again and broke it again at about 4000. After that I said screw it and rigged up a make shift winder out of a 1/2" drill from harbor freight. Have never looked back for a second. It's pretty rough and tumble but my coils are tight and cannot remember the last time I broke a coil wire when winding.

 

[DreX]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Zhang hand winds 43 awg pickups, I think I can do this.

Hand winds or hand guides? Verrrrry significant distinction there.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

it's the end result even if it DID work without breaking that is the problem.

And there's the piece of advice I was waiting for. I think I might still give it a go, don't have much to lose, but I'll lower my expectations accordingly.



Dre, yeah, completely handwound.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Me & my buddy turned his moms sewing machine into a winder. He got this thing that was for a bike I think but it worked out mint as a counter & he never had any problems with that? About two years ago he moved but emailed me one day with a picture of his brand new $2000 & something winder, super excited! He had nothing but problems with it, he said it was like you had to be able to fully service one if you wanted to own it? It was constantly breaking wire so he eventually got some sort of refund but it took almost 6 months to get his cash back from the people that made it! Just goes to show a lot of $ doesn't mean no issues or problems? I think he's using the sewing machine again???

 

[copperheadroads]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Super Distortion uses 44 gauge wire & if your going it rewind it, the coils are around 6300 turns .but trying to hand wind this probably won't end well . 44 gauge is extremely fine & fragile .
If you going to try it I suggest taking LT Kojak 's advise , going with 7000 turns of 43 . I can make a great sounding pickup .

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

So, I made me a LOL jig to do this little project and I'm about 3/4 of the way through one coil after about 2 1/2 hours of winding last night. I did break the wire after about 20 turns, and then again after about a hundy, but then I got the feel for any extra resistance. I'm kinda letting the original wind pattern transpose itself to the SD coil, seems to be working OK. The coil doesn't lay flat and wire lays uneven, so I switch ends that I'm turning every few hundred turns and flip the coil and switch directions. It should be sufficiently scatterwound for effect! The wire comes off pretty easily after working into the coil for a bit, there's no wax deep in the windings, they weren't dipped for very long. After taking wire off of the old coil for awhile I can get to the broken start end again, so now I can take measurements and I haven't broken the wire yet. The coil is winding a little looser than optimal, probably, but I'll pot the **** out of it, so hopefully it will be OK. Wish me luck!

Super duper pickup winder LOL jig:

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

That's awesome! Pretty much exactly the way I would approach it . . .


I'm wishing you some success on this project!

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

I'd just be very careful when potting it. I've heard that DiMarzios melt at lower temperatures, so use paraffin wax that has a really low melting point. Like, 110 F. Melted pickups suck.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

I got my technique down, don't be tickling or nothin'.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

So, I made me a LOL jig to do this little project and I'm about 3/4 of the way through one coil after about 2 1/2 hours of winding last night. I did break the wire after about 20 turns, and then again after about a hundy, but then I got the feel for any extra resistance. I'm kinda letting the original wind pattern transpose itself to the SD coil, seems to be working OK. The coil doesn't lay flat and wire lays uneven, so I switch ends that I'm turning every few hundred turns and flip the coil and switch directions. It should be sufficiently scatterwound for effect! The wire comes off pretty easily after working into the coil for a bit, there's no wax deep in the windings, they weren't dipped for very long. After taking wire off of the old coil for awhile I can get to the broken start end again, so now I can take measurements and I haven't broken the wire yet. The coil is winding a little looser than optimal, probably, but I'll pot the **** out of it, so hopefully it will be OK. Wish me luck!

Super duper pickup winder LOL jig:

This is what I see when I read your post.

 

[MacBradley]

Re: Winders, is this even worth the effort? Tips?

Hand winds or hand guides? Verrrrry significant distinction there.

Zhang does both.

I have tried hand winding before a few times. I've made some great sounding pickups doing it that I use on my main player, but it takes like 8 hours (give or take depending on pickup type). I really don't ever want to do it again. I'd suggest using a drill or something.

To the OP: You probably aren't going to be able to get near as many winds around the coil before it fills up when winding purely by hang. Also, you'll probably snap the wire a few times and have to re-solder and coat the wire each time. You're in for A LOT of work if you've never done it before.