Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

[ParameterMan]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Some thoughts:

You can't reproduce the traditional humbucker sound(series or parallel) by isolating the coils and later electronically summing them. The coils see each other as an inductive load and this causes all sorts of interactions that modify the sound significantly. See the effect the Blackouts preamp has on passive humbuckers. You should be able to get away with G0lden's suggestion as long as the inputs you're driving are high enough impedance(maybe 10M+). The problem with that is:

The pickups also interact heavily with the volume and tone controls(as uOpt pointed out). The load from these components significantly changes the coils' resonant peak. You can easily simulate them by running two 250-500k resistors, one in series with a tone cap, across each pair of coil leads that you're going to record. Doing this with G0lden's idea(where you use both the tapped and full outputs at once) will affect the full humbucker sound somewhat.

Since you'll be basically recording four independent pickups, I think you should use P-Rails. Now that would offer a range of tonal options.

I think you should do it in the name of epic experimentation. I personally think it's an awesome idea but that once you try it, you'll decide simply selecting a pickup the old-fashioned way is good enough. But that shouldn't stop the experiment.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I think you should do it in the name of epic experimentation. I personally think it's an awesome idea but that once you try it, you'll decide simply selecting a pickup the old-fashioned way is good enough. But that shouldn't stop the experiment.

That pretty well sums up my thoughts, especially the bold that I added.

 

[58Mike]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I'm glad I posted this question here, because this is what I needed to know. (Not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to know.) The dealbreaker is that I didn't realize humbuckers were wired in series. I can't recreate that in Protools. The noise-canceling yes, but the tone, no. My purpose in this was to be able to get not just a Start sound, but a Les Paul sound as well, which looks like a no go.

I guess my other option is to have separate single coil and humbuckers all next to each other, but I don't see that working either, because especially in the bridge pickup position, it's just too cramped.

Oh well. Better that I learned the problems now, rather than after spending a lot of time on money on it. So thank you guys for your input.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

If you are recording into a computer, you can maximise your sonic options by recording the guitar signal directly to a mono channel. Simulate the approximate amplifier setting that you have in mind by using a plug-in treatment. Play/record.

Once you have an acceptable recorded performance, edit it into individual chord progressions or melodic phrases. Next, position the cut 'n' paste guitar recordings onto separate tracks so that each can receive different processing. Either employ different Amp Sim plug-in settings per track or feed the raw audio into a guitar amplifier and record the result of doing that.

You are never going to extract the sound of a Les Paul type guitar from a Stratocaster (nor vice versa) but you can introduce infinite variety after the fact using skilful recording techniques.

 

[jumble jumble]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

One thing you could look into is using a hexaphonic MIDI or piezo pickup, and recording the output from that. The resulting signal should then give you something you can put through some modelling software. This is, for instance, how the Line 6 Variax works. I'm not sure exactly how you'd go about it, but once you had it working you could indeed switch your sound from a Les Paul to a Strat, any pickup, any time. It would be modelled sound but I'm sure that's fine for TV work right?

 

[58Mike]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I do have a Variax and it's pretty cool, but there's something about the modeled sound that I'm not totally sold on. For my idea to work for me, I'd want the real sound from the pickups. I probably overstated the concept that fast trumps good. (Not that a Variax isn't "good," but you get the idea.)

I do appreciate the idea, though.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Have you considered using a variax?

 

[G0lden]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

You wouldn't get two coils in series while shorting out one coil at the same time.
OP would have signal from 4 independent single coils to work with at the outputs.

Who says that you have to short a coil to use it as a single? These would be independent outputs, and therefore you don't need to short the one coil out. You just "tap" it in the middle.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Who says that you have to short a coil to use it as a single? These would be independent outputs, and therefore you don't need to short the one coil out. You just "tap" it in the middle.

I don't follow what you mean by 'tap' it in the middle?

Each coil of a 4 conductor humbucker is two independent single coils, each with its own hot and ground (or start and finish). You need all four to run the pickup in series.
You cannot sum two independent audio outputs (each single coil output) in series, therefore you would have to run (wire) the pickup in series physically to begin with (this is the only way to get a series output audio signal). When you do this, there is no way of simultaneously running a single coil from that same pickup. (You would only be using one hot and one ground, no longer in series)

'Shorting' out one coil is an expression... it is also the basic method to go from series to single or from parallel to single.

If I am missing something, please let me know.

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

 

[G0lden]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Using the typical SD wire colors:

Wire the Red and White together.

Input 1: Humbucker
Wire to Green and Black.

Input 2: Single
Wire to Black and Red+White wire.

If your recording device has a common ground for all inputs, (i.e. one wire of the 2 inputs are all wired to ground) this method won't work. But I have seen recording devices that don't use a common ground for inputs. They just use 2 wire inputs wired to their circuit.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Using the typical SD wire colors:

Wire the Red and White together.

Input 1: Humbucker
Wire to Green and Black.

Input 2: Single
Wire to Black and Red+White wire.

If your recording device has a common ground for all inputs, (i.e. one wire of the 2 inputs are all wired to ground) this method won't work. But I have seen recording devices that don't use a common ground for inputs. They just use 2 wire inputs wired to their circuit.

Forgive me, I don't follow much of this. Can you explain what you mean by 'recording device'? Mixer Inputs? Audio Interface Inputs? That's about it nowadays except soundcards.
I have a long history in Pro Audio so feel free to elaborate. I just sincerely want to understand your point.
I am no electrical engineer in the least, but with every recording device I have, all inputs share a ground. It is usually the chassis.
If you have completely separate recording devices for each coil, I can understand that as a possibility.

For SD pickups... Black(s) And White(f) are one coil / Red(f) And Green(s) are #2 coil.
If the Red And White are combined (both finishes), the pickup is in series unless shorted to ground. This is regardless if black or green is sent to ground.
I don't know how you can get two grounds (or hot) independent of each other within the same pickup coils, if that is indeed what you are saying?