Wiring Old Metal Fatigue
- Thread starter zimbodel
- Start date
superpete
Active member
well, as far as a well known pickup it sounds like, that's the jb. i've always heard it's the same wind, or very very close. the double screws def give it a little different tone, but it's not like they are wildly different.
would i describe it as nasal? it depends...some people would call the jb nasally due to to the high upper mids, so i *guess* it could be. but i've wired pickups out of phase before, and it doesn't sound nasally like that. it sounds like jake e lee on bark at the moon. middy, possibly suitably nasal, not unusable garbage.
i wired it up years ago, so i can't help you there at the moment, but i always just do hot and ground and tape off the other 2. never split coils or anything fancy. i am going to put it in a jake e lee build im doing after the holidays, so i'll have more info in the coming months.
superpete
Attached a clip that I took from Roadgames. There is the sound I mentioned that I didnt like that Holdsworth used for a short while. The Metal Fatigue pickup I have when overdriven does sound like that. the "squelch" sound. As mentioned he dropped that option very quickly. dont know if he maybe dropped the pickup or used the parallel option consequently when in Humbucker mode. Parallel does sound different from series humbucking, it is not just a volume difference. The two mini switches are capable of coil splits and series/parallel humbucking selection.
This is exactly the sort of sound I get too, so evidently that is how the pickup is supposed to be sounding like in series humbucking mode..
I understand some people might like this particular sonority, but my personal view has always been severe dislike since the 80's listening to his albums as a Holdsworth nut. Thin and honky for no other reason. Well I can correct myself, at that stage he wanted to sound like an english horn, so that may account for the peculiar sonority. He did abandon this sonority very fast.
There are far better examples, live that I cannot find right now, that explains this better and I may replace the clip below when I find it.
[video]https://jumpshare.com/v/Tr25T9eEcjgzhv0IJI0D[/video]
Attached a clip that I took from Roadgames. There is the sound I mentioned that I didnt like that Holdsworth used for a short while. The Metal Fatigue pickup I have when overdriven does sound like that. the "squelch" sound. As mentioned he dropped that option very quickly. dont know if he maybe dropped the pickup or used the parallel option consequently when in Humbucker mode. Parallel does sound different from series humbucking, it is not just a volume difference. The two mini switches are capable of coil splits and series/parallel humbucking selection.
This is exactly the sort of sound I get too, so evidently that is how the pickup is supposed to be sounding like in series humbucking mode..
I understand some people might like this particular sonority, but my personal view has always been severe dislike since the 80's listening to his albums as a Holdsworth nut. Thin and honky for no other reason. Well I can correct myself, at that stage he wanted to sound like an english horn, so that may account for the peculiar sonority. He did abandon this sonority very fast.
There are far better examples, live that I cannot find right now, that explains this better and I may replace the clip below when I find it.
[video]https://jumpshare.com/v/Tr25T9eEcjgzhv0IJI0D[/video]
Last edited:
Sorry about that. Updated it. Should work now.
I came to the same conclusion, It is just how these early MF's sound.
It is a humbucker with a large intentional nasal twang it seems.
I only started figuring this out once i played through a LaB Amp realized it is not what I always thought, the solid state amp that creates this mosquito storm, but actually the pickup.
The later MF's which I also have sound way different, more how I remember a JB.
For the sake of staying true to history I will have to keep it like that I guess, but I will keep the pickup in the charvel holdsworth, but I will try it in parallel mode also and see if things dont end in a slightly better result. I will never use that noise. Just a personal thing.
I am just glad that Alan dropped this sonority fast. It is the only gripe I have with all of his work. The man is a damn institution and a force of nature and I will never critisise his playing, but feel sonority is a valid criticism. That particular sonority gives me a headache and I have a headache right now just listening to that clip twice.
Since you mention Jake.
I will listen to Jake E Lee all day long. Over the Mountain just blew me away when I heard it at the time it came out. Did he in any way use MF's ? What is the reason you want to use a MF for Jake E. Lee ?
I came to the same conclusion, It is just how these early MF's sound.
It is a humbucker with a large intentional nasal twang it seems.
I only started figuring this out once i played through a LaB Amp realized it is not what I always thought, the solid state amp that creates this mosquito storm, but actually the pickup.
The later MF's which I also have sound way different, more how I remember a JB.
For the sake of staying true to history I will have to keep it like that I guess, but I will keep the pickup in the charvel holdsworth, but I will try it in parallel mode also and see if things dont end in a slightly better result. I will never use that noise. Just a personal thing.
I am just glad that Alan dropped this sonority fast. It is the only gripe I have with all of his work. The man is a damn institution and a force of nature and I will never critisise his playing, but feel sonority is a valid criticism. That particular sonority gives me a headache and I have a headache right now just listening to that clip twice.
Since you mention Jake.
I will listen to Jake E Lee all day long. Over the Mountain just blew me away when I heard it at the time it came out. Did he in any way use MF's ? What is the reason you want to use a MF for Jake E. Lee ?
I have to say, I absolutely love that tone, and the whole solo. That's his 'English Horn' period. His tone got smoother later on, but man, I really dig that. I love how it speeds up towards the end.
I am glad you like it. We are all different. Nothing wrong with his playing. I just listen to the sound indifferent from his playing, and that gets me.
He gave up on that sonority in 1985 at latest. (to my delight).
The Tokyo dream Video is just spectacular though. He used it extremely sparcely there and seemingly were using single coil 90% of the time.
I spoke to one of his guitar techs and there were pickup changes and he seemingly disliked the pickups in the ibanez he played after the Charvel and from the photos I have of his pickguard underbellies it seems to be JB's with double screw poles then on. They were marked just JB as I can remember. What happened during the Steinberger Delap period i dont know what he used. During the Carvin period I know exactly what was going on.
He gave up on that sonority in 1985 at latest. (to my delight).
The Tokyo dream Video is just spectacular though. He used it extremely sparcely there and seemingly were using single coil 90% of the time.
I spoke to one of his guitar techs and there were pickup changes and he seemingly disliked the pickups in the ibanez he played after the Charvel and from the photos I have of his pickguard underbellies it seems to be JB's with double screw poles then on. They were marked just JB as I can remember. What happened during the Steinberger Delap period i dont know what he used. During the Carvin period I know exactly what was going on.
Tested the pickup with a vector impedance meter at work, and it is supposed to sound like this.
Serial humbucker with the following measured specifications:
Coil1 Ls=3.41H, Rs=7.86k, Cp (parasitic)=137.7pF, Rp(parasitic)=61Ohm, is the internal resistance of the parasitic capacitor.
Coil2 Ls=3.39H, Rs=7.82k, Cp (parasitic)=213.64,pF, Rp(parasitic)=36.37Ohm, is the internal resistance of the parasitic capacitor.
Humbucker series mode: Ls=7.59H, Rs=15.43k, Cp (parasitic)=105.52,pF, Rp(parasitic)=72Ohm
Since inductances adds in parallel this is about correct, so does the internal resistances.
So the coils are connected in series.
I did test that they operate in common-mode-rejection aka humbucking.
This MF has quite a lot higher inductance than my other pickups and measures like the lower end of Blade pickups which has very high inductance.
So that is it. It is supposed to sound like (my idea of) a mosquito storm. Lol.
Anyway thanks to all who helped me out.
At least now I know it is supposed to be like this.
Serial humbucker with the following measured specifications:
Coil1 Ls=3.41H, Rs=7.86k, Cp (parasitic)=137.7pF, Rp(parasitic)=61Ohm, is the internal resistance of the parasitic capacitor.
Coil2 Ls=3.39H, Rs=7.82k, Cp (parasitic)=213.64,pF, Rp(parasitic)=36.37Ohm, is the internal resistance of the parasitic capacitor.
Humbucker series mode: Ls=7.59H, Rs=15.43k, Cp (parasitic)=105.52,pF, Rp(parasitic)=72Ohm
Since inductances adds in parallel this is about correct, so does the internal resistances.
So the coils are connected in series.
I did test that they operate in common-mode-rejection aka humbucking.
This MF has quite a lot higher inductance than my other pickups and measures like the lower end of Blade pickups which has very high inductance.
So that is it. It is supposed to sound like (my idea of) a mosquito storm. Lol.
Anyway thanks to all who helped me out.
At least now I know it is supposed to be like this.
Last edited:
Was he actually using Carvin pickups then? I am not so sure he liked 1st Carvin guitar in the end. I always thought the last several years, he had specially made neck 59s with double screws. Now he likes the double screws, and the *do* sound different, but I wonder why he liked them better than the stock screw/slug configuation.
Apparently not the first headstock carvins, which he changed out a lot, Once he got his headless signature model, it was basically all Carvin. Two different pickups used in the Black, non of were SD. The black is one hell of a guitar.
The double screw-poles from Carvin he started using about 8 months before ha passed away. He liked them a lot. they are not SD and Carvin made (technically Kiesel) and went into his main guitar - the black.
His magic basically happened in three epic periods spanning the three guitars:
Carvin Black headless, Delap, Charvel AH.
The SG/Steinberg/Ibanez eras wee great but short lived or not so epic.
The double screw-poles from Carvin he started using about 8 months before ha passed away. He liked them a lot. they are not SD and Carvin made (technically Kiesel) and went into his main guitar - the black.
His magic basically happened in three epic periods spanning the three guitars:
Carvin Black headless, Delap, Charvel AH.
The SG/Steinberg/Ibanez eras wee great but short lived or not so epic.
Last edited:
Masta' C
Well-known member
1987. First ones during the transition period had "Made in USA" stamped below the logo, later becoming "Made in America" sometime in mid-to-late 1988.
The exception to this is the Parallel Axis Trembuckers, which were introduced in 1988 and kept the "Made in USA" stamp.
Superpete,
I have a big favor to ask you.
Since you say you have the exact same pickup, can you do the following for me.
Take a small screwdriver and test the strength of the magnetic pul by placing it on a pole-screw of a specific coil.
Pull it up and remember the strength.
I find that one of the coils has a bit less of a magnetic pull.
This is normal, as some people design humbuckers with different magnets, but I want to see if I get the same result with someone else having the same pickup.
Is the magnetic pull identical on both coils ?
Thanks
I have a big favor to ask you.
Since you say you have the exact same pickup, can you do the following for me.
Take a small screwdriver and test the strength of the magnetic pul by placing it on a pole-screw of a specific coil.
Pull it up and remember the strength.
I find that one of the coils has a bit less of a magnetic pull.
This is normal, as some people design humbuckers with different magnets, but I want to see if I get the same result with someone else having the same pickup.
Is the magnetic pull identical on both coils ?
Thanks
Last edited:
i cant do that test since i dont have it any longer but i used to have an ah1 in the bridge of my old hamer. i swapped the magnet at some point and can tell you that its just a standard bar magnet under the hood so both poles should have the same pull in theory
Did Carvin make those pickups available?
Mincer,
Both are available. The first one as used also called the Carvin AH pickup on ebay (M22 & C22 & H22) and have the 11poles per coil. The H22 is generally what Holdsworth settled on. Here is an auction and photo of H22's https://reverb.com/item/14850458-car...sworth-pickups The second one is a Kiesel Pickup you can find in the new Kiesel HH1X. They ship all HH1X;'s currently with that, but it is better to ask them. I do not know if they made any changes since. I dont remember the pickup name but you can get it from Kiesel if you ask. I can go look at my data what it is called.
Here it is ..... https://www.kieselguitars.com/products/KH12B Alan switch to that as his final pickup which he liked a lot. I saw him live with that pickup in the black a few months before he passed away at Cruise to The Edge. I was about 8 foot away from him at that show ( learned a lot! ). Was a magic experience.
Both are available. The first one as used also called the Carvin AH pickup on ebay (M22 & C22 & H22) and have the 11poles per coil. The H22 is generally what Holdsworth settled on. Here is an auction and photo of H22's https://reverb.com/item/14850458-car...sworth-pickups The second one is a Kiesel Pickup you can find in the new Kiesel HH1X. They ship all HH1X;'s currently with that, but it is better to ask them. I do not know if they made any changes since. I dont remember the pickup name but you can get it from Kiesel if you ask. I can go look at my data what it is called.
Here it is ..... https://www.kieselguitars.com/products/KH12B Alan switch to that as his final pickup which he liked a lot. I saw him live with that pickup in the black a few months before he passed away at Cruise to The Edge. I was about 8 foot away from him at that show ( learned a lot! ). Was a magic experience.
Last edited:
Hi Jeremy, that is all I needed to know thanks a lot for the info.
And so it is!
Bit of a false alarm here as the screwdriver I used to test with turned out to be slightly magnetic, resulting in different pulls as the poles are magnetised N for one coil and south for the other.
Once I chose a demagnetised piece of metal it checked out.
So basically this pickup is in great condition and performs as it supposed to.
That solves my original question
Thanks to all for responding.
And so it is!
Bit of a false alarm here as the screwdriver I used to test with turned out to be slightly magnetic, resulting in different pulls as the poles are magnetised N for one coil and south for the other.
Once I chose a demagnetised piece of metal it checked out.
So basically this pickup is in great condition and performs as it supposed to.
That solves my original question
Thanks to all for responding.
Last edited:
Similar threads
