Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I think an Avatar is yer best bet, and I also wouldn't go for a 4x12...truth is if your JTM-45 is running correctly and you sit it on a 2x12 with H30's or V30's you'll be killing tht DeVille if you want to...

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

problem is i live in canada.. they dont ship here

ill have to find an alternative way to get a cab with G12Hs but i think that seems to be what most of you suggest to do and it makes sense.. i;m just wondering tho those G12Hs are 30 watt meaning they break up easier right? hows the clean sound on them? most important is the gain sounds i get from it but i do need something that can clean up nice..

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I dunno, The last two JTM45s I've played have been polite volume-wise. Useable in most stage situations, but my old 2x12 deville would easily have been able to get over the top of them...

I have seen this problem with some of the re-issue bluesbreaker combos. On a large stage, with other amps that have a lot of cut, they can sound sound like there's a wet blanket thrown over them. In my experience the originals and the botiques are very loud, but some of the re-issues are not . I know of one case were an example sounded okay but not very loud, and it had a defective output transformer. I would get the amp checked by a tech before trying anything else.

I suspect in some cases the combonation of 5881's and the OPT impedence mismatch of the re-issue can be a big part of the problem.

To the OP: If the amp checks out as otherwise healthy by the tech, then I would go to EL34 tubes and a plug in SS rectifier and of course a re-bias. Have the tech do this. That will make it noticably louder. Also you need 100db sensitivity speakers, either the G12H or V30 or both. If expenses are such that a new (Avatar cab perhaps?) are impractile, then getting some Emi Wizards and putting them in your present cab is another option.

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I have seen this problem with some of the re-issue bluesbreaker combos. On a large stage, with other amps that have a lot of cut, they can sound sound like there's a wet blanket thrown over them. In my experience the originals and the botiques are very loud, but some of the re-issues are not . I know of one case were an example sounded okay but not very loud, and it had a defective output transformer. I would get the amp checked by a tech before trying anything else.

I suspect in some cases the combonation of 5881's and the OPT impedence mismatch of the re-issue can be a big part of the problem.

To the OP: If the amp checks out as otherwise healthy by the tech, then I would go to EL34 tubes and a plug in SS rectifier and of course a re-bias. Have the tech do this. That will make it noticably louder. Also you need 100db sensitivity speakers, either the G12H or V30 or both. If expenses are such that a new (Avatar cab perhaps?) are impractile, then getting some Emi Wizards and putting them in your present cab is another option.

as i said before... the amp has been recently serviced and shuld be working great, has been completly revamped with new transformer, caps, KT66 power tubes, Mullard preamp tubes and rectifier tube. The amp is practicly new and no longer the stock reissue but more like an upgraded version with closer to the original specs

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

The cleans out of those G12H30's are great. I think they will be superior to the speakers you are currently using in terms of good cleans.

[xxxplorer]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I would say without much doubt that the cab has something to do with it. I am borrowing (actually using as a beer table!) a 1922. When I plug into it (has those GT-75s) my sound is MUCH smaller and noticeably quieter compared to my earcandy (not a fair comparison though), or even my Peavey 412ms which has similarly voiced speakers but not as low in the dBs... also 4 instead of 2! If you are on a budget try and find some used efficient speakers, if you can afford a new cab give Earcandy consideration, but Avatar is great bang for the buck. Also I always wanted to try a Port City Wave!

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

as i said before... the amp has been recently serviced and shuld be working great, has been completly revamped with new transformer, caps, KT66 power tubes, Mullard preamp tubes and rectifier tube. The amp is practicly new and no longer the stock reissue but more like an upgraded version with closer to the original specs

I see...but that even more causes me to suspect that somethings wrong, because there should not be that much of a disparity even with the speakers/cab issue. What are the B+ and plate voltages? Although the rectifier tube is new that doesn't necessarily mean that it's working right.

Several years ago I had a bassman that sounded like it had about 5 watts. It was just a pre-amp tube, a new pre-amp tube but a bad one anyway.

On edit: I still think that EL34's and a SS rectifier will help in this particular situation.

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I see...but that even more causes me to suspect that somethings wrong, because there should not be that much of a disparity even with the speakers/cab issue. What are the B+ and plate voltages? Although the rectifier tube is new that doesn't necessarily mean that it's working right.

Several years ago I had a bassman that sounded like it had about 5 watts. It was just a pre-amp tube, a new pre-amp tube but a bad one anyway.

On edit: I still think that EL34's and a SS rectifier will help in this particular situation.

i have no idea what you mean by B+ and plate voltage, like i said when it comes to amp circuitry i let others with more experience than me do that kinda stuff because i dont know much about it. I do know that he tested the tubes and everything and the amp itself and made sure everything was working great and the guy has a good reputation and allot of experience, he repairs tons of amps every day hes not some dude in his garage hes got his own repair shop so its pretty much as good as i can get it done.. because i cant really open my amp and go check for myself, ill have no idea whatsoever what im doing.

Theres a possibility the speakers might be damaged too, that cab is really old and has seen allot of moving and was also bought used 6 years ago so i'm considering getting a new cab or just getting new speakers for it but i keep hearing that the cab itself isnt very good so maybe just getting a new cab would be best.. i can afford getting one but i'm just trying to get as much info as i can so i dont make any unnecessary purchase or any mistakes resulting in more problems.. G12Hs so far seem like something safe to go with tho from what most of you tell me, ive tried a cab with V30s and didnt like em but could be diferent setup/amp/guitar that did that too, been wanting to try G12H and from sound clips and info i keep reading it seems like something i could work with

[Stratman]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

More speakers equals more volume. Try the 1960 and load it with G12H30 speakers. It won't be cheap, but you'll get much more volume that way. The G12H30's also sound great with a JTM-45. That's what I use with my open back Edana.

On my Edana, which has GEC KT-66 tubes and a GZ34 rectifier, I use 2-12 inch Jensen taken out of a 1967 Fender Twin, in an open cabinet.

It is quite loader than any Fender Blues DeVille 410 can ever think of reaching and has much better tone.

Same for my reissue JTM-45 and my Bluesbreaker - much louder than the Fender Blues DeVille. I bet that when I finish wiring up my Ceriatone that it will also be louder than that style fender.

PLUS - the tone (Jumped channels) out of a JTM-45 style amp is much better than that out of fender blues deville, the only fender amps that have a tonal chance is the super reverb and vibroverb.

[Bludave]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

So the other guitarist in the band i play in uses a fender tweed deluxe amp, 60 watt trough 4x10 speakers combo. I use a JTM-45 head with a 1922 2x12 speaker cab.. problem is my marshall cant get near as loud has his amp and he often does'nt even get past 2 on the volume so i'm wondering if i get a 4x12 cab will i get louder or at least have more presence or if i should just go ahead and get a higher wattage amp or something... Is the 60 vs 30 watt diference that big?

I really don't want to because i love how my jtm sounds especially where its been recently fitted with new KT66 tesla tubes and some nos Mullard 12ax7 in the preamp, new transformer, etc.. a whole rebuilt was done in it and it sounds awesome but we just did a show yesterday and i could'nt hear nothing at all comming from my amp, could've just been unpluged and not make a difference for me i was just playing the stuff because i knew the songs by heart and its kinda dumb imo to be playing lead and solos if you cant even hear what your doing especialy where i sort of improvise sometimes.. worst part is we where miced so apparently people heared me just i could'nt hear **** on stage

You need better a better stage monitoring system, not a new amp. The difference between a 30W and a 40W is barely noticeable in volume. The difference will be in headroom.

[Luke Duke]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

On edit: I still think that EL34's and a SS rectifier will help in this particular situation.

Why? It's just going to increase some voltages and make it feel and sound more like a plexi. Even if he got more wattage in some way it's not going to be the 35 watts you would need to get 3dB more of sound.

The weakest link are the speakers by far. 75s, in my opinion, don't cut well due to the mid scoop, the problem is compounded with at least 3dB less efficiency. Also more modern 10s are pretty efficient so the Deville has a speaker advantage too.

A KT66 driven 35w+/- amp with two efficient speakers should be enough to get you ran out of a lot of places.

You might want to check out the gear page. TONS of Avatar cabs roll through there.

Luke

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I agree...going to a SS rectifier and EL34's will add very little actual power and little to no volume it will however change the tone of the amp quite a bit IMO...

If you can't get your hands on a "better" cab at least put some "better" speakers in that cab...Like I said earlier 75's are just not very loud speakers and on top of that due to the overall voicing they simply get covered up in a bad setting and if there are 2 guitar players it's even worse.

[Hellion]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Four 10" speakers are going to move more air than two 12" speakers, regardless of the power driving them and what creates sound is air movement. Personally, I think that a 212 cabinet is a god's plenty when it comes to guitar amplification, but then I'm not really involved here and if I were, then I'd want a stack!

Seriously, get the other guy to turn down or use a power soak to bring his volume closer to yours.

[jeremy]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

im late to the party but a bigger 2x12" cab with g12h or v30/g12h combo will really help with the volume and sound fantastic. i dont think there is any reason to go to a 4x12

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Why? It's just going to increase some voltages and make it feel and sound more like a plexi. Even if he got more wattage in some way it's not going to be the 35 watts you would need to get 3dB more of sound.

............

A KT66 driven 35w+/- amp with two efficient speakers should be enough to get you ran out of a lot of places.

.......

Well 50 watt plexis are plenty loud with more cut, but I will concede that he should probably get the speaker/cab situation sorted out first. If that doesn't do it then there may still be something amiss. It's just so hard to believe that an upgraded JTM45 is getting buried that badly in the mix. Perhaps it's just the different voicings? But still.........