parallel, split...output?

[hermetico]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Keep in mind that the decibel formula for power is different than the decibel formula for voltage. Half power is -3db. Half voltage is -6db. In pickups, we generally speak in terms of voltage.

db=10Log(P1/P2)
db=20Log(V1/V2)

Thanks Artie!.
What about current? remains constant when: in series / parallel / split?

[Zerberus]

Re: parallel, split...output?

^^ the current should remain constant, shouldn´t it (assuming the same pickup)? It´s primarily the voltage we´re influencing, IIRC changes in current would only be due to Ohm`s law, assuming all else is constant.......

[robrob2]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Just curious, what happens with current?

A pickup is a little electrical generator. Move the strings more and you get more voltage. Connect the pickup to an electrical circuit (like an amp) and the current goes up with the voltage because the resistance of the coil and circuit stays pretty much the same.

Current = Voltage / Resistance

A series humbucker will double the voltage and current output compared to a split single coil. The voltage and current are additive.

A parallel humbucker has about the same voltage and current output as a split single coil.

It is very much like two batteries wired in parallel put out the same voltage AND current compared to a single battery. Think of two batteries in parallel as a deeper reservoir of energy. Two batteries wired in serial double the voltage and current.

[ArtieToo]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Current won't remain constant just due to ohms law. But it really isn't a factor in guitar signals. It would probably just muddy the water to bring it into this discussion.

But, we can if you want.

Edit: Rob beat me to it.

[Rodney Gene]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Hey guys, this thread has somehow gotten convoluted in semantics.
This is a simple concept, super simple.

When referring to a pickup 'drop' in db, just think in terms of output. It isn't anymore complicated, despite any way you want to break it down or analyze it, measure it etc.
Resistance is irrelevant on its own, but not as a reference.

If you want 'your' method and your words and your explantion to be right, OK, your right. Its all good. None it is complete on its own.

All is well...

BTW, in my experience, just a bit of experimenting with pickups will solve this issue for you. Your ears will tell you everything you need.

Im...100% out

Cheers and blessings!

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

[robrob2]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Nothing convoluted about this:

Wiring a 16k ohm DC resistance humbucker in parallel results in a 4k ohm DC resistance and a -6 db lowering in output

This line from the FAQ is wrong.

The loudness of a single split coil and parallel mode will be very close. The tone difference caused by the different signal paths could explain part of the perceived difference. Also the difference in tone/output between the slug and screw coils is probably most of it. Of course if one of the coils has more turns than the other that will affect its output too. My Invader has all screw coils and I don't perceive the parallel output as any quieter than a single coil, if anything it seems louder.

The FAQ says that a parallel humbucker will be -3db quieter than a single coil and -3db is a large drop in perceived loudness. The above line in the FAQ is wrong.

[hermetico]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Hey guys, this thread has somehow gotten convoluted in semantics.
This is a simple concept, super simple.

When referring to a pickup 'drop' in db, just think in terms of output. It isn't anymore complicated, despite any way you want to break it down or analyze it, measure it etc.
Resistance is irrelevant on its own, but not as a reference.

If you want 'your' method and your words and your explantion to be right, OK, your right. Its all good. None it is complete on its own.

All is well...

BTW, in my experience, just a bit of experimenting with pickups will solve this issue for you. Your ears will tell you everything you need.

Im...100% out

Cheers and blessings!

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

It seem as if discussions weren't ok, at the end?.
I am 100% positive about all that chimed here HAVE experience with pickups, with their coils arranged in the weirdest ways.
what's the point?

[hermetico]

Re: parallel, split...output?

A pickup is a little electrical generator. Move the strings more and you get more voltage. Connect the pickup to an electrical circuit (like an amp) and the current goes up with the voltage because the resistance of the coil and circuit stays pretty much the same.

Current = Voltage / Resistance

A series humbucker will double the voltage and current output compared to a split single coil. The voltage and current are additive.
A parallel humbucker has about the same voltage and current output as a split single coil.

Thanks for clarifying it, Rob.

[hermetico]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Nothing convoluted about this:



This line from the FAQ is wrong.

The loudness of a single split coil and parallel mode will be very close. The tone difference caused by the different signal paths could explain part of the perceived difference. Also the difference in tone/output between the slug and screw coils is probably most of it. Of course if one of the coils has more turns than the other that will affect its output too. My Invader has all screw coils and I don't perceive the parallel output as any quieter than a single coil, if anything it seems louder.

Makes sense if the frequencies reinforced were those were we are more sensitive (mids)

[uOpt]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Pickup coils generate a voltage amplitude signal when a metal wire moves through its magnetic field. I don't see how two pickups in parallel would have a lower voltage amplitude signal. The voltage should be about the same as a single coil. I understand the tone will be different but I do not believe you should see a drop, and definitely not a -3db (50%) drop when wired in parallel.

IN a regular pickup (serial in the case of the humbucker) the resonance peak is where your ear is the most sensitive and where the guitar naturally has a lot of volume. If you push up the resonance peak a lot by putting it into parallel then the peak isn't backed by the guitar (it's probably the case that the resonance peak is now irrelevant) and in any case it is too high and your ear perceives it as quieter, even at same volume.

So I can guarantee that shifting the resonance peak upwards will make a very noticeable difference in perceived volume.

[robrob2]

Re: parallel, split...output?

uOpt, I admit I don't know anything about resonance peaks, but how does it shift from series to split single coil to parallel? It seems unlikely a resonance peak tuned for serial mode would cause a perceived difference in loudness between a split single coil and a parallel humbucker.

[uOpt]

Re: parallel, split...output?

uOpt, I admit I don't know anything about resonance peaks, but how does it shift from series to split single coil to parallel? It seems unlikely a resonance peak tuned for serial mode would cause a perceived difference in loudness between a split single coil and a parallel humbucker.

The resonance peak is the standard peak you get from a second order low pass filter, determined by the capacitance, resistance and inductance of the components involved, namely the pickup coils and the guitar cable.

That means the frequency changes because the electrical values change when when you split or go parallel.

[9fingers]

Re: parallel, split...output?

I read on the DiMarzio site that their Airbucker pickups have less of a volume drop than most humbuckers when switched to split or parallel, due to the Airbucker design. Anyone have actual experience with that? (Air Classic or Air Norton, split or parallel vs series)

[freefrog]

Re: parallel, split...output?

The resonance peak is the standard peak you get from a second order low pass filter, determined by the capacitance, resistance and inductance of the components involved, namely the pickup coils and the guitar cable.

That means the frequency changes because the electrical values change when when you split or go parallel.

+1.

I'll add my worthless 2 cents to this topic. Below is a screenshot of the "resonant frequencies" produced by a Hot Rails and a Cool Rails, in series and parallel, when they're excited by a low impedance coil.

One can see how the resonant peaks are higher in the spectrum when the PU's are in parallel, and how it diminishes the output level along the "useful frequencies" (roughly 80hz-1100hz, which are the fundamentals produced by the strings all along the fretboard).



Here are the inductances measured on these PU's (or at least what I vaguely recall of these values):
-Hot Rails: almost 12H in series and roughly 3H in parallel.
-Cool Rails: 6,3H in series and something like 1,8H in parallel (= the difference between a P90 and a Telecaster neck PU).

Now, the peak voltages that I measure when I brush the strings altogether:
-HR: 565mv in series, 300mv in parallel.
-CR: 209mv in series, 110mv in parallel.
The two PU's being rather far from the strings in this case.

Sorry, I've nothing here regarding these pickups splitted... Too much data saved in too many hard disks, many corrupted files, not enough intact brain cells for faithful memories... :-(

That said, the inductance would be higher (divided by two) with only one coil of each pickup and therefore, the resonant peaks would be lower in the spectrum, hence probably a slightly higher output in single coil mode than in parallel (I say "probably" because I don't take in account the wider magnetic window which senses more lenght of vibrating strings when the two coils are enabled)...

[uOpt]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Woah holy useful numbers and charts in here.

How come you went through all the trouble of measuring with a dummy coil?