parallel, split...output?

[Zerberus]

Re: parallel, split...output?

A parallel humbucker sounds exactly like what it is: 2 weak, anemic singles next to each other picking up slightly different parts of the string vibration.

fixed for accuracy

[rumblebox]

Re: parallel, split...output?

fixed for accuracy

Not if you only split hot humbuckers...

[merkaba22]

Re: parallel, split...output?

So does that mean that a series arrangement is: "2 weak, anemic singles next to each other picking up slightly different parts of the string vibration" at slightly different times (ie., separated by the minute delay in time it takes the current to run through each coil, one after another) that makes the humbucker sound the way it does?

[ArtieToo]

Re: parallel, split...output?

I'm guessing that much of this is dependent on the humbucker in question. An Invader, (16.8k), in parallel, is one of my favorite bridge pickups. A '59, (8.13k), maybe not so much.

[rumblebox]

Re: parallel, split...output?

The custom8 and BB3(neck) both sound good in parallel mode.

[ArtieToo]

Re: parallel, split...output?

So does that mean that a series arrangement is: "2 weak, anemic singles next to each other picking up slightly different parts of the string vibration" at slightly different times (ie., separated by the minute delay in time it takes the current to run through each coil, one after another) that makes the humbucker sound the way it does?

There's no delay in the current flow. It all happens at the same time. It has more to do with the "nodes" of the string vibration. As the frequency goes up, the wavelength gets shorter. Some of the higher harmonics could be as short as the coil spacing, thus, they'ld be out of phase.

[Zerberus]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Not if you only split hot humbuckers...

Good point, a JB for example splits beautifully to a 7.5 -8k a5 singlecoil (or 2 single coils in this case), and anything hotter is actually a hot SC going in the direction of an SSL-3 or even 5. The custom and C5 are a bit weak but stilll usable, but when you start to go below that things start to get real quiet real fast

[uOpt]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Since when does resistance dictate output?

[rumblebox]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Since when does resistance dictate output?

Since never. I think all the customs split well except the C2.

[Rodney Gene]

Re: parallel, split...output?

With respect, there is nothing 'incorrect' about the Duncan FAQ it is simply 'incomplete' intentionally. It is written in a way to answer a 'Frequently Asked Question' without bogging down the average player with specs. This BTW, equates and translates to 'real life' 'real-time' application. Not a measurement 'within' the pickup. If you put a measurement mic such as one used for an RTA for example in your room (I have done this many times to make adjustments to my recording environment over the years) and you play a humbucker (say 8k A5 as a basic reference) split...and then is parallel...with a clean stable tone (no modulation) through an amplifier or some sound source, the mic will see a roughly -3 db drop when playing parallel (all other things such a string attack being equal). It isn't 'perceived' volume, it is an actual drop due to diminished frequencies. This is a practical way to explain this and or understand this in my opinion. Although there are many educated players on the board, the FAQ is not to teach science, but just to let you know what to expect in real-time applications. I play clean and do a great deal of studio work for the most part so I personally am sensitive to that additional -3 db. Most players who regularly play in a live setting, loud volumes or with a great deal of gain (like many on this board) may not notice as much. But it is there...and the description is a useful one IMO.

Cheers,

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

[Rodney Gene]

Re: parallel, split...output?

BTW, since the advent of the Internet and information sharing, more players have learned the 'actual' processes and techniques behind the science of pickups. There is real interest in it and that has spawned a great number of small, home based builders and countless number of home-do it yourself types. A great deal of the FAQs (although updated) have been around for years and years catering to the average player. Maybe it is time for Duncan to add some deeper info? Perhaps you guys could suggest everything you want to see there and offer it up?

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

[hermetico]

Re: parallel, split...output?

With respect, there is nothing 'incorrect' about the Duncan FAQ it is simply 'incomplete' intentionally. It is written in a way to answer a 'Frequently Asked Question' without bogging down the average player with specs. This BTW, equates and translates to 'real life' 'real-time' application. Not a measurement 'within' the pickup. If you put a measurement mic such as one used for an RTA for example in your room (I have done this many times to make adjustments to my recording environment over the years) and you play a humbucker (say 8k A5 as a basic reference) split...and then is parallel...with a clean stable tone (no modulation) through an amplifier or some sound source, the mic will see a roughly -3 db drop when playing parallel (all other things such a string attack being equal). It isn't 'perceived' volume, it is an actual drop due to diminished frequencies. This is a practical way to explain this and or understand this in my opinion. Although there are many educated players on the board, the FAQ is not to teach science, but just to let you know what to expect in real-time applications. I play clean and do a great deal of studio work for the most part so I personally am sensitive to that additional -3 db. Most players who regularly play in a live setting, loud volumes or with a great deal of gain (like many on this board) may not notice as much. But it is there...and the description is a useful one IMO.

Cheers,

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

A change of +- 3dB is 'perceivable'.
I wasn't actually measuring it, even that I can (I also have some RTAS hardware and software in my home studio).
And, as said. All this depends on each humbucker and how twin or dispair are their coils, what has a lot to see with witch frequencies are cancelled or reinforced and, therefore how they affect to the 'perceived' volume. Is equal 72dB RMS of low band frequencies than 72dB of high band frequencies?. clearly NOT, since your drives will be very busy trying to move the high energy that low frequencies need.

[Rodney Gene]

Re: parallel, split...output?

A change of +- 3dB is 'perceivable'.

Sure, I understand. My point was to be clear. The term 'perceived' volume and how it was languaged is a phrase that generally does not refer to actual measured volume..but rather only a 'perceived' increase or decrease in sound level due to frequency changes. This happens often when switching between sets of monitors for instance. In the case of parallel versus coil cut, there is an 'actual' volume drop, not merely 'perceived'. In my experience most players cannot hear -3db of an overall tonal characteristic.

Cheers~

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

[hermetico]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Sure, I understand. My point was to be clear. The term 'perceived' volume and how it was languaged is a phrase that generally does not refer to actual measured volume..but rather only a 'perceived' increase or decrease in sound level due to frequency changes. This happens often when switching between sets of monitors for instance. In the case of parallel versus coil cut, there is an 'actual' volume drop, not merely 'perceived'. In my experience most players cannot hear -3db of an overall tonal characteristic.

Cheers~

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

Well, +3dB RMS is what you get when going from a 50W amp to a 100W amp (if anything else remains the same) but, also what you get from 25W to 50W. I think, it would be more noticiable (to the human ear) the second one, because in the first case, both are really loud (at full).
Not discussing with you, just thinking loud.

[Rodney Gene]

Re: parallel, split...output?

Not discussing with you, just thinking loud.

Discussion is always good. It gets us clearer and words can be clumsy at best sometimes, so it can take a bit of input to gain the clarity we seek. For me...bottom is this: How do we answer the question that so many new players (or new at pickup swapping) ask, "what is the difference between coil cut and parallel". I think the FAQ does the 'right' job without getting into 'tonal differences' to much. And as you mentioned we are referring to RMS or 'average' sound pressure as it is 'heard' by the human ear. Really that is all the player is asking and wants to know. If the question were "what is the electrical difference" that would have an expanded answer but generally wouldn't help a player decide on his wiring vision. As I said, perhaps the forumites would re-write some of the FAQs to suit the current evolution of the game? The knowledge here is a good resource.

All is well brother Hermetico.

Cheers!

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas